[terry.sc]

Jeez, do people really have no idea how the BRCA is run and how the rules are formed? I will no doubt repeat this time and agin, but there is now 'us' and 'them', the BRCA is run entirely by racers just like you and me, except they are prepared to put their free time into helping the hobby instead of moaning about it online.
If you want to change anything at all in the rules then all you have to do is put in a proposal and vote on it at the AGM. If you can argue your case and the majority agree then your proposal will get passed. If you can't be bothered to do that then you can't really complain because others have made a different decision.

Originally Posted by jimmy

8th buggies have their tanks checked for capacity - but the only national I've ever been to, I was shocked to see that it ultimately came down to a divide between people who could run 10 minutes and those that couldn't - and therefore had to pit more often.

Just like the old days of 1/10th buggies. Limited battery capacity meant you either fitted a lower wind and drove steady for five minutes, or you put a softer wind in there, geared up and drove harder. In 1/8th limited tank capacity means you either tune the engine to run leaner and driver more carefully or you run hard to make up the extra stop. It's not whether they could or couldn't, it's their choice whether to stretch out fuel stops or not.

I have to question why they aren't forced to run actual touring car bodies but instead streamlined bathtubs that look nothing like a car I'd want to be seen in!

Because the rules have limited what they can do with the bodies. If you think they look bad now just think what they would look like without an restrictions on body design.
If your complaint is that they don't look realistic, why aren't you also complaining that buggies look even further from the real thing. If touring cars should be running scale replica shells then buggies should have live axles and a cage like the Axial Wraith, not something that bears no resemblance to the real thing.

When it comes to electric racing - and particularly off-road where my personal interest mainly lays with (hey, I like it all tho), there's a limiting factor called skill.
10th buggy racers are more equal than ever before - despite, not because of, the scrutineering, rules and homologation. When you can always have more power and duration than you could possibly ever use, why homologate?

Because the drivers in the class decided amongst themselves at the BRCA AGM to only use parts on the BRCA Electric Board list. No class is forced to use BRCA homologated motors and batteries, several classes don't use the homologation lists. The lists are to ensure relative equality between all the various brands. Yes there are minor differences, but it stops someone sticking a 17.5T label on a 15.5T motor and then it being the only motor to run in the 17.5 class.

If you want a free for all just propose it and vote on it at the AGM.

These days the cells are checked for voltage above the norm - it was explained to me that people have been known to cheat by over-cooking their lipo's in some way, but clearly in off road, no one is ever going to do that, because it won't make a difference.
I think now they might claim it to be a safety issue - but standing there revving the car until the voltage drops would have been the same if the car had done a warmup lap anyway.

You are assuming that a small increase in battery voltage won't make a difference in all other classes. If you run a spec touring car class then that little extra voltage will make your car go a little bit faster. When qualifying results are measured in tenths or hundredths of a second every little counts. If there isn't a limit where do you stop overcharging? 8.45v, 8.6v? We have all seen the videos on youtube of what happens when you overcharge a lipo, it just reduces the chance of accidents.

Lipo bags - are there guidelines for these? My lipo bag I can't see possibly stopping the devastating power of a lipo going off. Maybe that's something that actually should be homologated, and properly tested.

The most dangerous batteries in the entire universe as far as I'm concerned were the last generation of NiMh cells. I'd say these were less predictable and possibly more dangerous than a lipo cell - but there were no charging-in-sac rules for those. I personally witnessed a pack explode in a car that was being carried - it blew the car apart. I also saw a pack explode on someones table - luckly they weren't there, but some people got hit far away by metal from the huge explosion. Some how these were homologated!

I would ask around the 1/12th racers then. They have seen several lipo fires in their pits.

A nimh cell will go bang and make a loud noise. Nimh have always been fairly safe until Intellect really took the piss with the rules, designing cells that the process of soldering a pack together usually meant you melted the safety vent. All the cells I have seen that were pretty destructive were Intellects. Most will just pop the cap off, some will throw their contents across the room, but that's it, done. it might be a bit warm but nothing more is going to happen.

With lipos they are self sustaining, once started it will keep on burning at very high temperatures until it has expended all its energy. The point of a lipo sack isn't to control an explosion or to be left burning on your pit table, it buys you some time when the pack ignites. For most lipos in planes and helicopters the standard lipo sack is easily able to contain the fire. We tend to use somewhat more powerful batteries.

The 1/12th section does require buckets of sand to be in the pits at every meeting. Being indoors there is considerably more danger than most off road tracks. If a lipo catches fire it is covered in the sand to smother it then left until it burns itself out, so keeping the toxic smoke contained as well.

Why are motors homologated - what is the advantage in off road?

Because the Electric Board was asked to homologate motors by the BRCAs members, so the motors should be more or less equal in performance. Just because off road doesn't need motor limits doesn't mean other section don't either.

As off road have more power than grip, unlike most other classes, there isn't an advantage apart from making sure the motors are commercially available. If you don't think there's a need for it propose it and vote on it at the AGM.

Batteries - why are they homologated? For sure spec them in a hard case and 7.4v etc - but why do they need homologation.

To ensure we have a level playing field and to ensure the batteries meet international safety standards. Lipos submitted for homologation have to include proof they have passed safety tests. It also ensures they are commercially available, a free for all could mean we go back to manufacturer 'specials' for team drivers that you can't buy in the shops.

Why are lipo cells which are well known to sometimes swell slightly with normal use, I mean, fractions of a mm, homologated but still illegal?

Because there is a maximum size and the manufacturers should take that into consideration. Lets say a pack that swells 2mm is allowed this 'tolerance'. So, the manufacturer makes a new pack which includes this 2mm oversize tolerance in their pack. They get extra capacity in there, which means a higher average voltage for many on road classes. Then everyone else follows suit and we end up back where we started, just with packs now 2mm too big to fit in most cars.

Surely if you homologate something, it's legal - but it doesn't work that way.

That's Trinitys current defence over their D3.5 17.5T motors. ROAR has found it uses oversize wire which explains why it's the fastest motor in the class. Trinity is complaining because they managed to get it through homologation months ago but now it has been retested it's found to be illegal.

Same with lipos. Lets say you are running a class with a 4200mah capacity limit, and a manufacturer has a pack homologated. If the manufacturer then increases the size slightly while keeping the same label on it, you now have a pack that is going to outperform all other lipos in that class.

The manufacturers have a maximum size allowed and they should take that into consideration when designing the packs. The old nimh cells had a maximum size and they would still be within that size after swelling, until Intellect built their cells deliberately oversize and all the racers went out and bought them because they had a very slightly higher average voltage.

One of the few advantages some sponsored drivers may have these days is in the software on their ESC's. They will get the latest developments before anyone but this isn't regulated at all. One area that you could argue should be homologated but isn't - I wouldn't argue for it, but it shows how behind the times some of these things are.

Technically ESC software is regulated, there are very strict requirements on what ESCs can and cannot do in blinky mode. Orca were caught out with dodgy software and were given a blanket ban of ROAR races for six months.

I think there's a lot of daft things personally that need modernising. How can you possibly have a rule that states your 'open cage' buggy should be a realistic representation and have a driver figure..

Because the rule was written when we had the Hirobo Zerda, Mugen Bulldog and AYK Viper. An open cage buggy has no body at all, just an open cage.

but then you allow a cab forward shell? Yes - you can run a shell no possible scale humanoid would ever fit in that looks nothing like a buggy but more like a spaceship - and you can have painted opaque windows if you like.

That choice is down to the drivers creating the rules, every other class actually specifies clear windows. If you want to go scale then you would end up banning every buggy body available. It would be nicer if buggies looked more like the real thing, but you aren't going to get the drivers to vote for it.

Body shell holes - how can you say they need to be defined by the manufacturer -

At the AGM last year the rules were changed, there are now specific maximum sizes for holes for cooling. The manufacturer can make as big a cut line as you would want but the drivers voted to change it this year.

I'm in it for the love - rules, control tyres and fair racing are all good. I think things are well behind the times though. Having your wheel nuts slightly interfere with a size checking box makes ab-so-lutely no difference on the track but you win the worlds with that and you'd be disqualified. Silly.

Okay, lets allow a car with slightly longer axles to pass scrutineering. Then what is to stop another manufacturer making their buggy wider, because you can't argue that it's not allowed while allowing someone else to run with a slightly oversize car. If you want cars with wheel nuts catching in the box then propose and vote to increase the maximum width at the AGM. Then everyone will be shimming their wheels out to the new width.