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-   -   Why flip rear pivot blocks on X-5? (http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18908)

Fiddybux 03-02-2009 07:09 PM

Why flip rear pivot blocks on X-5?
 
Hi,

I've heard people mention this, and seen setups (e.g. Ellis Stafford), where the rear pivot blocks are flipped over, and out of necessity have been ground away to make room for the outdrives, as the natural left block goes on the right and vice versa. But I wonder what is the point in this? What does it achieve?

I've had a think about it, and as far as I can tell it would raise the chassis in relation to the rear wishbone / suspension arm by about 3mm, or however tall those little lugs are on the pivot blocks are. But what I don't know is what effect this would have on the handling.

Can anyone shed any light on this for me? I'm sure others are wondering the same thing too.

Thanks in advance.

ashleyb4 03-02-2009 07:33 PM

It raises the hingepins and allows the car to go though the bumps better.

A

bigred5765 03-02-2009 07:37 PM

and alters the rear anti squat,

Lee 03-02-2009 07:37 PM

I think Ellis or Elvo will be able to give you a technical answer to this but ill try to do my best.

What you are doing is lowering the wishbone pivot point in relation to the chassis. this means that you are raising the roll centre, the rear of the car will roll a bit more in the corner but it should be better over bumps and just feel that bit more planted.

We used to play about with raising wishbones when i raced on road and moving them up by 0.5mm made a massive difference to the handling of the car.

ashleyb4 03-02-2009 07:47 PM

Surely arent you raising the wishbone pivot point compared to the chassis as you are raising the hinge pin?

A

elvo 03-02-2009 08:11 PM

Inner hinge pin goes UP in relation to the chassis - if everything else stays the same - roll centre goes UP, rear end rolls LESS.

But I think the plantedness comes from having the wishbone and camber link closer together.

BTW, the little lugs should be filed/Dremeled off.

Fiddybux 03-02-2009 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigred5765 (Post 204539)
and alters the rear anti squat,

How does it alter the anti squat Carl? We talking more anti-squat, like more than 4 degrees or something?

I don't suppose you can have less than zero anti-squat...'cos this would be pro-squat. He he, anti anti-squat.

Dunno, just rambling now.

Fiddybux 03-02-2009 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elvo (Post 204563)
Inner hinge pin goes UP in relation to the chassis - if everything else stays the same - roll centre goes UP, rear end rolls LESS.

But I think the plantedness comes from having the wishbone and camber link closer together.

BTW, the little lugs should be filed/Dremeled off.

Oh right...cool advice...and I would have left the little lugs on which would have properly ruined the whole mod!:cry:

Cheers.:D

elvo 03-02-2009 08:31 PM

2° anti-squat block flipped = 2° pro-squat = not what you'd want. To be remedied with lots of spacers under the front 2 screws.

Using the 0° block is probably easier.

Fiddybux 03-02-2009 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elvo (Post 204592)
2° anti-squat block flipped = 2° pro-squat = not what you'd want. To be remedied with lots of spacers under the front 2 screws.

Using the 0° block is probably easier.

Right okay...that's handy as I've got loads of 0 degree blocks cos I never use them.

Would I need to stick washers under the rear screws to put me back near 2 degress?

ashleyb4 03-02-2009 08:58 PM

Put washers under the front screw to bring you back up to 2 degree.

A

Fiddybux 03-02-2009 09:10 PM

Isn't that only if you use the 2 degree blocks though Ash?

If you use the 0 degree blocks then surely you put the washers under the rear screws?

bigred5765 03-02-2009 09:21 PM

wrong way round russ,under the front gives you anti squat, under the rear gives you pro squat

GRIFF55 03-02-2009 09:26 PM

Any links to pics of this mod please?

ashleyb4 03-02-2009 09:32 PM

an ok picture at the bottom of the page of ellis's mod at the bottom of the page on his xx4.

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/reviewxx4/ellisxx4.html

A

GRIFF55 03-02-2009 09:41 PM

got ya. cheers ash

Fiddybux 04-02-2009 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigred5765 (Post 204645)
wrong way round russ,under the front gives you anti squat, under the rear gives you pro squat

Cheers Carl.

Fiddybux 04-02-2009 10:53 AM

How many anti squat shims are required under the front to bring it back to 2 degrees?

I have loads of anti squat shims left over from my XXX and they would be ideal to use I guess.

bigred5765 04-02-2009 11:25 AM

we use to use one of the xxx shim for 2%

Fiddybux 04-02-2009 03:03 PM

Cheers Carl.

So tell me, do you have an issue with there being a gap between the bottom of the rear shock tower posts and the pivot blocks?

I'm just wondering if I will make a gap when I file off the little lugs on the pivot blocks when I flip them.


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