Council updates
 

I have started this new thread to post all communications I have with the council.

These are messages from earlier today (20.3.12) after an update from Roger. I mentioned we as a club are not happy with the limited and restricted parking being offered in the councils latest plans.
http://www.bmrcc.co.uk/images/Parking.pdf

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lianne,

Having shown the proposed parking plans on the map you forwarded to me last week to the club members, we as a club remain very dissapointed at the plans thus far.

I appreciate that you have passed on my previous response on March 15th, however i have had no response from the person to whom you have forwarded them too.
I feel it only appropriate to mention at this time that the club are presently looking at alternate locations to race.

The club was founded and has existed in Bury for many years and it would be a shame for it to move outside of the town, but members have located options outside of Bury where the essential parking is available.
I personally would like to see the club continue to grow in it's current location, but the members will ultimately decide if the parking issue remains as is.

Could I request a meeting with whom it is that can authorise any improved parking facilities, to those already proposed? with a view to preventing the club actually relocating!

In anticipation

Mr Darren Wales
Chairman
BMRCC

council response
 

Hi Darren
Please could you confirm what exactly the club is looking for?
As far as I am aware there was no dedicated parking area previously so the proposal is an improvement on previous arrangements. There is also still the large main car park which has always been available and will continue to be.
We would of course be sorry to lose the club but I doubt we could provide your own 40 car area as you mentioned in a previous email.

Lianne

Lianne M. Dooley
Leisure Facilities Development Manager
3 Knowsley Place, Duke Street, Bury BL9 0EJ.

Chairman response
 

Lianne,

Before the track was moved, whilst not dedicated, the unused area around the back of the old track provided parking for around 25+ cars.
Consider that the club has doubled its members as a result of the new track, then the need for more parking has doubled with it.

As I have said many times, it is key for security of 1000's of pounds of equipment, for it to be within sight of the drivers. Drivers are unlikely to be happy to leave their valuables on the main car park, as they rightly fear theft and we do not want to increase crime in the area and we will lose valuable members.

Whilst we acknowledge that the new track was provided to us by way of compensation for the old one, it appears the positioning and parking needs were not sufficiently considered. This I fear was due to a lack of consultation at that point.

I have been in consultation with yourselves from the moment I took over the Chairman role and discovered that no parking provision were being considered. I fully appreciate the council does not have endless funds to give every club what it desires, but our club has expanded along with our needs.

As I said on the day we met at the track, the area between the new building and our track is ideal for parking and our needs. We do not necessarily need dedicated parking, excluding all others, as I would seek to simply ask the other clubs to avoid using the spaces on Sunday race days.
This area is more than capable of providing sufficient parking well away from the nearest football pitch. The plans shown simply grass it over which is in our view a complete waste of what we see as the BEST space on the site for our parking needs.

Can I not meet directly with the site manager to at least discuss why this area is simply being grassed over?

In anticipation

Darren

council response
 

I have had a chat with the architect and the director and at this moment there is nothing additional we can do.
The area you are keen to use has not been identified as parking so in this scheme would not meet the planning criteria. It has been left as green space so would need a separate application if this was to alter.

The best we can do is complete this project – any hold ups now would add additional costs which we cannot afford to pay.
We will then meet with your club and discuss the situation. Any other areas would need a planning application and there would be costs involved but we can consider that at a later date.

I would like to remind the club that there was no parking provided at the previous locations. Cars used to drive on the grass which was not really acceptable. We can only provide what we have proposed as part of the current scheme.

Lianne

Lianne M. Dooley
Leisure Facilities Development Manager
3 Knowsley Place, Duke Street, Bury BL9 0EJ

Ok - Green space = somewhere we can pitch tents, just not somewhere we can drive cars.

Many tracks don't have full car access right to the track, we won't be alone in this. We'll just have to park in the main carpark and pit nearer the track as discussed.
Once we have power and.or members get 12V sources the need for close car access is reduced - add some shelter and you don't need the car near at all.

are we allowed to pit all the way around the track border without cars?
if so then there is plenty of space we should just do what we used to back in the day and just get yourself a 12v battery to use thats all i do outside anyway:)

I'm not sure how close the football pitches will come to the sides at the far end of the track though. Some come pretty close.
The area we previously parked on is however being re-turfed and just turned into an open green space. In my box thats fair game. So I reckon pitting around the nearer side of the track and behind the rostrum is viable.

fair point
 

Si.
You do make a valid point here. The grassed area i had hoped to have some facility to park on can be used to pitch tents etc on and if cars aren't cutting it up week in week out then it should remain decent enough.
Whilst the council haven't given us everything we asked for perhaps we should at least see how this pans out before making hasty moves away!

Whilst we have been presented with other options, the truth is we are now committed to at least the first regional at Goshen. And we certainly aren't going to move before next Sunday!
So lets try and work with what we have first.

Like Tisher says, time to go old school. BITD we used old car batteries and leisure batteries. Most places I raced the track wasn't right next to where you parked, so you never used to pit in the boot of the car anyway. We've gotten spoiled is all!

What other options?

We have been offered at least one possible location to move to instead of Goshen - but it is in Oldham.

[QUOTE=Dwales1;634600]-----------------

I would like to remind the club that there was no parking provided at the previous locations. Cars used to drive on the grass which was not really acceptable. We can only provide what we have proposed as part of the current scheme.

Lianne

Lianne M. Dooley


I beg to differ but when I took over, all the area between the house and the sports hall had a weed barrier which was covered with stone.
The gymnastics club later put a storage container near the hall. (Where the fire started) and the football put their container next to the house.
I believe also that there was even a drainage sump and pump under it, near the small gate.
Why else would the council have done that if it wasn't for parking?

Another point
 

Has anyone walked around the track lately?
--------You can't
The ground is so waterlogged there is water standing making your socks wet.

Of all the years I've been doing the club, I can't remember any of our cars who had parked next to the track leaving any damage.
Barbecues burn the grass but the grass grows back in two weeks. Ask the chairman at Bury Football Club.
Damage to the football pitches were done by the locals doing doughnuts.
The most damage I remember was done when the Fairground left the site after some really nasty weather and that was on the slope up to our main gate corner.

?
 

Roger,

You are right to be frustrated at the response from Lianne, who has used 1 instance and generalised it.
The driving on the football pitches issue was resolved when they put the barrier up at the end of the car park. So no longer going to happen.
But you cannot get away from the fact that soggy ground and heavy cars do not go well together, you only have to look at the mess created last season on the access to the spots at the side of the cabins.

I do not like the fact the council failed to fully understand the simple request for parking and specifically between the new building and our track, but they have made it pretty clear that they do not have planning permission for parking in the area we would like it, at this time!. The knee high barrier around the designated parking they have provided us is clearly to prevent driving on this ground and we should respect that if we are to convince them to obtain said planning in the future.

I have no intention of letting up with annoying them over this, you can be assured of that!

I may well be wrong here, but i'm not so sure they need planning permission (from themselves?:p) to put tarmac/gravel over the grass. I thought planning permission was for buildings/structures over a certain size.:confused:

Darren, you're doing a good job here, keep at them.

And another thing
 

By reducing access we are now not a National standard track

Grass is good
 

I think everyone who races would prefer to pitch their tents on grass.
So the grassed area used for about six hours a week would be perfect.

Oh! and...
 

And what about the floodlights we used to have on the side of the sports hall??

By looking around yesterday, gives me the impression they are forcing us away, there really is no room around the track for parking, and they know that! What the hell is going to happen when 100+ drivers arrive for the regionals ? I dont even think the main carpark can accommodate that amount of people...

The main carpark can, provided nobody else wants to use it!

Anyway all we can do is try.
It won't work, but unless we demonstrate it won't work we really don't have much option. Even if we decide to move we need to keep Goshen going until we are set up at our new location so we need to make this work or at least prove it won't.

Agreed that this means the track isn't national standard, but TBH we'd need a lot of other things to happen before parking was the only reason we don't have a national!
I believe we can make the regionals work but it won't be ideal and people will moan. Direct those moans back to the council.

National Standard
 

The way they're going , do you honestly think they'd let us have caravans over a weekend ???

Update 28.4.12
 

As you all know the committee met with the other three clubs at Goshem last Weds night.

The meeting was very useful as it identified that the council had handed site management of Goshem over to the Bury juniors football club chariman Tony Crosbie, who is aided by the gymnastics chairman. Neither the cycle club or our club appear to have been involved in this decision made, it transpires, some time ago. That said, the council were present at last weeks meeting and they acknowledged that the basic needs of our club would be provided and that in essence the council still maintain overall responsibility of what is clearly council land.

Firstly- Toilet facilities will in the long term be provided from within the newly built gymnastics reception area. Until these are finished and for the regional next week the site (builders) toilets will remain.
Secondly - The committee will be meeting the council next Thursday to confirm what land we will be able to manage. The are between behind the rostrum remains our priority and the current site manager has no objections.
Thirdly - The grassed area behind the straight will be turned into parking for our club, by the current site management, as it is of no use to the football club, with access to be provided from the main car park.
Fourthly - For the regional event next Sunday, we will be permitted to pitch on the grassed area nearest to the main car park, which although on a slight slope, of course is much better underfoot. WE WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO DRIVE ON THE GRASS.

I am very pleased to report that Tony Crosbie has been very supportive thus far and I hope to report back further once I have met the council on Thursday.

Darren
Chairman
BMRCC

Trackside
 

Can anyone confirm that we will be able to pit around the track at the 6th May regional, and erect tents etc. And if so where can we put them? It's a bit confusing as things stand.

Just a point also - when I arrived a couple of weeks ago for Sunday racing someone wearing a Hi Viz vest at the main gate said if we were not footballers we were not to go in the main car park - we "had" to drive down the side road.

OK - the info just appeared from Darren already - thanks.

Council meeting 3.5.12
 

All,

Myself, Roger and Matt today met with the council, Lianne Dooley and Neil Long to discuss our clubs position at Goshem.

The meeting started with Neil making it clear that the council saw Goshem as a flagship site for Bury council and that Bury Metro RC was very much part of their plans.
Neil confirmed that toilet facilities were to be available within the reception/entrance area of the new gymnastics club.
He went on to say that the council would support our club in making funding applications for in particular additional parking needs and that he wished for the club to provide the council with both short term specific needs and more encouragingly long term wishes.

Although Neil initially stated that he wished for the area between our track and the new building, to be kept green even with some trees, the committee eventually persuaded him that this area was the prime location for additional parking and pitching space. With the idea being that a section (nearest the new building) was to remain grassed for pitching and the remaining area to be potentially covered with a grass reinforcement solution, with the possible addition of a short fence ensuring we stay well away from the football pitch, where Neil can have his beloved trees on the outer boarder.

We have been asked to provide a plan drawing of our wishes, which will even include consideration for a new purpose built race control and covered rostrum amongst other ideas. (longer term)
With this in mind, we ask that all members continue to be patient with the works going on around the track, in the knowledge that we are in the fold for creating a fantastic improved venue for current and new members alike.

I (Darren) will be arranging to submit the funding application with the help of Lianne by the end of next week.

Matt will be completing the plan drawing of the site, with our wishes contained, again for submission to the council as soon as possible.

The council (Neil) are keen to start work immediately to further improve on what we already have agreed, so our timeliness is important to keep them on their toes.

Darren
Chairman
BMRCC

Well done to all involved.
Should be a very smart place to pit and race when all work is finished.
keep up the good work.

good work boys
sounds fantastic
see ya sunday

Parking Option...?
 

Darren,

You may want to suggest the use of 'Grasscrete' products to form a parking area rather than the grassed area currently proposed by the council. It seems that the council can't budget for a 40 car tarmac area, but you may get some co-operation suggesting an alternative. Grasscrete allows grass to grow through and still allows a surface for vehicles to drive on. It's not too good if the area gets waterlogged though - which would have to be checked out. We use it for access roads on reservoirs etc where the planning conditions dictate that the finished appearance should look like a grass area. Hope this is of use.

http://www.grasscrete.com/docs/paving/index.html

Grasscrete
 

MisterB

Funnily enough, this is what the council are already putting in the original plans and we will have around 12 spaces in the first instance. We are looking at alternative options, which personally will be less expensive for the additional area where we wish to expand into.

Thanks for the suggestion though, we always welcome ideas to help us improve our club. :thumbsup:

Darren

What if we have a couple of fund raising events so we could chip in with the council with regards to the extra cost of additional parking . councils all over the country are feeling the squeeze I think they might bend a little more.

Well done Darren,matt,si and roger it certainly looks like our relaitionship with the council is improving due to all of your hard work

Buds

Nowt to do with me - all credit must go to Darren there. Whilst he's been building good relations with Bury council, I'm busy trying to blackmail Salford council.....

I think that's the plan!

We have just been filling fire hoses with small pebbles today.
They look great! And will be perfect. Should half the packing away & setting up times! Because they can be left out, there too damn heavy to get over the fence!

We have about 6 5mtr lengths filled, so we can try them tomorrow.

Tried to give you a bell but your phones off!

Phone is in pieces mate I'm on the I pod the mrs went nuts when I didn't come home untill 4am covered in blood and scratches where I took a short cut down a mountin I can't remember shit the wife did one at around 1.30am cos I had my arm round some women in a bar!!!:confused:

Fundraising
 

Buds,
great minds. We will be looking to pay a portion of the extra works costs which as you say the council are more than happy with.
As for the fire hose, we have only done 4 x 5metre lengths today cause the rest of the hose at counthill but asMatt says it will be great.

Note to All members.

With the absence of minky since the agm we have been short on the committee so to fill the void we have voted in the muscles and voice of mark broadbent to help continue our clubs development.

Darren

What do you mean "We" ?
Only 4 lenths.

Can any-one tell us what happened to the rolls of fire hose we had in the lockup? They seem to have disappeared.



:mad:

Email sent to Gymnastics club chairman and Lianne at the council on Sunday after the toilets issue was raised to me by Roger

Keith.

Coaches and parents inthe gymnasium this afternoon are locking the doors and parents are telling my members that they cannot let them in?

I accept when the building is not being used but when it is we should have the toilets access as agreed with Neil long and the council.

Please can you advise your members of the agreement.

Darren
Chairman
BMRCC



Response from Lianne today



Hi Darren
Apologies for the problems you are having - I'm not sure how cooperative
the gymnastics club are being - bear with us please.

I have looked on the gymnastics club website and their timetable shows
they have gymnasts in until 4.30pm on a Sunday (I don't know if that is
up to date)

Keith informed me verbally that they were in until about 12.30pm on a
Sunday.

Do you know approx what time they left on Sunday??

Keith did express concern that their coaches had to answer the door but
if they are on site then they need to leave the doors open so you have
access.

The council's view is if the gymnastics club are in the building then
you can have access to toilets for your club members.

Sorry this is causing so much aggravation!

Lianne

Lianne M. Dooley
Leisure Facilities Development Manager
3 Knowsley Place, Duke Street, Bury BL9 0EJ. Tel: 0161-253-5769

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have spoken again to Lianne today and she will be addressing this with Keith and i ask that all our members please continue to be patient with the other clubs and report any issues directly to Myself, Roger or any of the committee members at the earliest opportunity to at least allow us to try and resolve at the time.

Darren
Chairman
BMRCC

gym club(toilets)
 

People were leaving the gym building until about 3pm last Sunday. They locked the doors whilst they were in. People coming out told us we were not allowed to use their toilets.
The odd day without rest rooms can be tolerated, but it won't work on a regular basis - people will go elsewhere. A number of people were walking around wanting the loo, and dads with little girls needing to go.
Do the cycle and football clubs have their own toilets? Could we make an arrangement with them?
All the committe is doing is appreciated. Just offering feedback for information.

The cycle club do not have toilets at all. They too are suffering from this insane arrangement - actually more so than we do as they have a lot of visiting teams.
The football club have them in the changing rooms and also in the clubhouse. However they want to charge us something absurd in order to us them - and don't want us to have unrestricted access as we might 'damage them'.
Rog is actually considering a portaloo option as if we have to pay it makes sense to have our own facilities rather than depending on the other clubs. Costs could be shares with the cyclists as they need them too.

Don't fret
 

The council's view is if the gymnastics club are in the building then
you can have access to toilets for your club members.

Sorry this is causing so much aggravation!

Lianne

Lianne M. Dooley
Leisure Facilities Development Manager
3 Knowsley Place, Duke Street, Bury BL9 0EJ. Tel: 0161-253-5769



WE will not be needing to spend club money to go.! There are new toilets that are owned by the council, that are currently being wrongly hoarded by the gymnastics club.

Darren

Thanks Si - useful info.

Print the email sent from lianne and anybody who denies access to the toilet just rub it in their face or I can use my charm!!!!