Stock Mini Motors & ESC
 

HI,

Can you please let me know What is the motor limit on a stock mini? if any

Also I am currently running a tamiya STD ESC and looking for something that will run a better motor are there any good priced onse without going brushless.

Thanks

Trev

Stock motor limit
 

Hi Trev,

i'm not too sure as I don't run in the stock class but I believe it to be a 27Turn limit. If you turn up on Friday one of the guys who race in the stock class will be able to confirm this.
My advice would be to use a 20T saturn and race in the "open class". I am personnaly not a fan of splitting the Mardave classes to suit one or two individuals. As racing with 4 cars in a heat can be a little dull compared to to a full on field of upto 10 cars.:thumbsup:
I see the stock class suitable for beginners and the Open class suitable to more experinced drivers as the cars are a little quicker and require that little bit better setup and driving ability. :p

Hope this helps

Si

Agreed with what Simon said.
In my opinion the Tamiya TEU101BK (assuming that is what you have) can handle any motor you would want in your mini at Gloucester. I've run that controller on a 17T motor without a problem in a mini, and that is far too fast for the chassis at the Glos track. The lack of gearing choices mean you can't run motors with low turn counts because you will end up being over geared as the track is so small.

Thanks for the reply, I hope to be out again on Friday ( i have the yellow mini that spends alot of time on its roof)

I am going to stay in the stock for a little while as I am new to this and I am happy with running in this until I get used to the car. as I brought the car s/h I wanted to fit a new motor and bits to make it as good as it can be hence the turn question.

Trev

Trev,
if you are interested in running a small form factor LiPo which will certainly improve your car, I can produce machined battery enclosures especially for the Mardave.

Check out my site, you will see it there plus a load of set-up advice for these cars:
http://www.fulloption.co.uk/mardaveV12.html

DAVE

i race a stock mini and im running a mabushi 540 rs sport tuned motor.i should be there on friday if you want to have a looki:thumbsup:

Simon can I ask what makes ur car not allowed to go in the 'stock' class? Motor, cells or what? And what should it be to be allowed to go in The stock mardave class?

@ Gunter,

the class is seperated due to motor winds apparently :cry:. Namely I run a 21T clash motor (one that came with the Mad Monkey) whilst others in the stock class run silver can 27T motors as outlined in the Mardave section BRCA rules.
Although if we followed BRCA the rules to the letter, both my ESC and battery would be subject to failing the "stock class" criteria.

For me, as stated already above, national rules should only apply to national events. All clubs should have the choice to run "open" class or BRCA regulated classes. Prior to a certain individual(s) attending Glos, the mardave class was always "open". For me the more people who race in this class the better as it will force the "stock" guys to either a) race elsewhere or b)upgrade their car to become competitive.

I still struggle to comprehend why we run two classes at Glos. Maybe this was just to passify the minority of people who complained about this class?

On the other hand, the more people racing "any" class of RC is a bonus, so no real complaints from me that we run two sperate classes in the mardaves.

Apologies for the long winded response :thumbsup:

Si

Rite ok so basically a fun class for all has been changed by people that has joined ARE club pushing old members out.

I agree with some of that but not other Simon, yes it should follow brca rules reali to a degree motors and stuff are a major but things like wing size and height for example is a little to far but yes for a club you running with the other cars but not Collecting points against them should be allowed. And others shouldn't have to go out and spend more money to be competitive that's not reali the idea at club level follow the rules and spend as much as you can afford :-)

At the end the day we follow rules made my the club not what one or 2 people want. If we were running to club rules most the mardave's whould not be allowed to race due to there ride height and not countersunk chassis which should be enforcEd no matter what.

I think I'll be running a lipo and 27turn caterham mardave and it will be going in with all the other mardave's. Its are club and I been going for 7 years not a few months

Mr Gunter with a mardave, bring it on :thumbsup:

I'm not to sure which points you agree/disagree with to be honest :cry:

I'd get a 20T saturn and race with me, Martyn + others who are moving away from the "stock" class.

Even Mr Beeby is considering a return to the "dave" and I can almost gaurentee he won't go the 27T route.

Your choice though. The bueaty of a Mardave is that they regulate themselves because too much power (brushless) brings a whole host of new issues that the chassis can not handle. So money doesn't necessarily bring you the best car. That way teh class remains fairly even.

That said, if all others convert to the stock class then i'd be more than happy to compete with a 27t motor.

As you have rightly said this is a fun class and too many people take it too seriously.

Si:p

I'm new to the club coming back to rc after 10 year break used to race in devon, been to 3 meetings had a warm welcome the first night and really great to be back racing but i am only out for a great night may feel different after i have put some wd40 on my thumbs shame we are not all in together as more cars make for better racing, but the guys in stock could say we can change motors and join them if we wanted. Just great for me there is a club close.
But as i am new perheps i should keep out of it.

Nick

Well when I say me with a mardave it's gona b me mark and boldwin racing it taking it in turns/double driving which will be a laugh. We just wanted something cheap and fun. Mine going to hav a 27turn but won't b a Silverman thing as that's pointless as I got loads of old brushes to use up.

Nick every1s point of view is valid I'm glad you enjoy racing at glos it's small but a good laugh with a range of drivers from beginner to not half bad.

Hopefully are Dave will be ready in the next week or 2 :-) but I think all mardave's should go together inless there just to many cars

It's cool to see a lot of interest in the Mardave class.
I am indeed wishing I hadn't sold my Mardave car. Some lucky guy in London is now running what is probably the best Mardave chassis in the world :)
I might get another, my problem is that I don't have a brushed ESC and find it painful to shell out for one when you can easily get a brushless one for the same price or cheaper. Put it in context - when I was racing I was using a Hobbywing 18A controller which cost £18 brand new, and a £22 motor.

Well Dave I'm sure if you asked mark he could probably sell you a brushed speedo as I think he got loads in his box :-)

i race in the mini stock and i agree that it is a fun class :thumbsup:

I would prefer to have all mardaves in the same pool and have an a/b final on the night like we have had for the previous 3 years. It adds nothing to the club by splitting the class. If you're a novice then its great to get into the A and if one of the top runners has a mare its amusing to see them in the B :o, I've been there lots of times :confused:

It isnt really about who's got the most cash, I've experimented with all sorts of esc's, motors, tyres and batteries and sticking a brushless in a 'dave at this track is not great for the majority of drivers (I know there are exceptions). Like all cars its as much to do with prep work, tyres and gearing as anything else.

It just seems silly to ruin the class over the motor limit.

Having said that, if the club want to come up with some basic rules around motors, batteries, esc, tyres etc then happy to conform if it means I get to beat someone else every week other than Simon.:D

The problem being that if everyone has to run a 27 turn silver can motor then I guarantee everyone will soon get bored and want to move on.

How do we define some rules guys?????? we need to do something, I still like my 'dave!!

If people want to split it I think it should be 27 turn or higher, any other mods allowed, and a second class which is unlimited. BUT both classes should race together and equally qualify for the A/B final as suggested by Grayslick above. The main reason there is a problem is because these two classes do not race together, when we all know it is not difficult to beat a brushless Mardave with a silver can turd pile. It's about driver skill, which is true of most of the classes at Gloucester because the track is so tight. That's the appeal, right?

a & b finals
 

Like Grayslick and Longrat, i'd prefer to all race together irrespective of motor limit. As I proved during the last meeting, no one is running in accordance with BRCA mardave rules anyhow :thumbdown:. The defected "stock" class was setup at the request of one individual but I do understand the logic and intentions of the split in class.
If a couple more people join the open class then we will probably achieve 6 cars per week which makes for more interesting racing. What the newbies don't appreciate is that it has taken me nigh on 2.5 years to get the Dave setup and going well. But in that time my driving style and consistency has come on leaps and bounds. You can not blame outright speed and motor power for not winning when every second corner your crashing into the barriers!! Running the two classes together allows the better drivers from each class to race in the same final. You can split the championship points over two classes if everyone agrees that this is fair.
Every class should be a fun class and this is the first time in 4 years at Glos that anyone has raised concerns over any class of racing to teh best of my knowledge.
I have spoken to the person in question and pointed out that he is the only person unhappy with the previous and current situation (people not adhering to his proposed rules). I'll speak to Steve during the next meeting and request that we are all placed together if there are 8 minis or less. If more "daves" turn up then I don't see any change in the quals/finals anyhow.
All those in favour of joint races between the two classes make it known to me on Friday. As Grayslick mentioned in a previous post, the thrill of getting into the A for the first time and beating other more experienced drivers is what rc racing is all about.
:thumbsup:
On a final note, joining the two classes would reduce the qualifying duration making time for everyone to have two finals on the night instead of one.
Si

Just a quick comment Simon but I think me and Gordy might pOssibly of sorted out the problem aswell and will see what happens on the weekend but I think things might be abit more relaxed hopefully ;-)
But yes all the daves should be mixed and hav a proper A and B final. Hopefully we will be joinin ya soon but are Dave fell through so we looking for another one now :-)

Shame about that Chris, you know it is really hard to find a nice unmolested Worlds-capable Mardave chassis these days. Keep looking and I'm sure you will find your pride and joy soon ;)

my self and char like having the duffers and the pros as we call them cause it makes us feel like we get in the way when we are all together in the race .it would be a good idear to tone the motors down in the duffers class as we want to keep the damage down and lern to drive ,this is just my view about it from the bottom looking up:thumbsup:

Rite we for mardave n electrics we are in need of a bodyshell pinion and front body mounts thinks that's the lot :-) any1 able to help us get going?

Has Baldwin got any old TC3 body posts?

Wot a laugh that was Racin mardave. 6 laps up in are rave with 2 driver changes durin the race.

Simon cheers for the shell we gona get one soon we can mayb for next week :-)
And a slower motor will be installed as a 27tirn proper stock motor was fast as hell and 108 deg at the end of a run oops

I'm wondering if the gearing would be ok for your motor if you switched to 48DP gears and used the biggest spur and smallest pinion possible before the motor can hits the axle.
Otherwise, what about grinding the timing tabs on your motor so that you can rotate the endbell and reduce the timing - that would cool it down. Plus then you could use your mountain of brushes up.
Also I don't know how much tyre thickness you were running but if it was a lot this will obviously cause the motor to run hotter/be over geared. Hoping to be able to run with you on Friday...

I've not reali thought about it tbh dave ill hava look 2mos and see what the gearing is and look to see what we could get with 48 do but when we turned it down to 65% it come off around 60 which is no big deal reali I don't think. But for next week I think we gona try a Silvercan and c if that get hot n if it dose stick with are 27stock. I might hav bearings I can put in the motor to help a tad

Gunter, the car looked very quick with that brushed 27T motor in it. As I have stated many times on this BB, the Dave can only handle so much power. In your case what I witnessed during the single race I raced, was the massive amount of grip roll you experienced on the high speed corner. Getting used to the Dave will take you (CB/MG) a little time but I am most definately looking forward to future battles on track. Especially now that Beeby is joining the foray aswell.
I am really pleased you enjoyed it... I have said for many months that racing the Madraves brings the most smiles out of all the classes I have raced. Roll on Friday :thumbsup:
Si

Yep, ordered a VRX-CE yesterday. Sure hope we won't need to set up a third class for those running a transverse pod damper...
I predict some good racing will be had!

now that has me worried Dave...:drool:

Oo Dave u hav spent some cash how much that bad boy set u bk?

But yeas Simon we did hav a small grip roll issue ;-) but due to are massive experience and tech no how ;-) 'super glue' we had no grip roll in the final and it was rocking after we set steering balance up. And managed to keep the motor under 100c. Putting a stock silver can in this week n a new secret shell ;-) not made out of iron so it should be flying.

In true Mardave style I don't actually know exactly what I have bought. But going on the nuts prices of second hand stuff on Ebay I bought a new kit. £90 for the VRX-CE and I added the diff on top of that. I'm keen to see if the CE is any better than the standard V12. My concern is that the light chassis will make it more likely to roll. If so I'll be prototyping a steel V12 chassis, available to all if it is successful of course.

Wow Dave that's 7 times how much we hav spent on ares, but the new shell is over doubling are costs. I lookin forward to having another laugh with the Dave n the new shell mark painting ;-)

my mardave is lossing the back end on corners and rolling is there any way to stop that

unfortunately Ryan its probably the high centre of gravity due to the ABS shell.

A lexan shell weighs virtually nothing so does not adversely effect the cars handling/grip under braking/ cornering etc... whilst the ABS is probably close to 250grams (approx 25% of total weight). Bear in mind the type of shell, your Cab style is not used in any "full size" racing so I'd guess that aerodynamics and shell weight distirbution is not best for suited circuit racing more akin to banger racing. :thumbdown:

You could change the front and rear springs (medium all round) and make sure your running 50 shore fronts and 42 shore rears.

But setting up a mardave is definately 90% tyres that suit your driving style. I like mine to slide with minimum grip as I use the motor to power the back end around turns.
Good luck trying all the various combinations, it took me 2 years to reach the setup I have....:thumbsup:

Hey Ryan, if you don't have one already consider investing in a diff. But definitely try Simon's tyre suggestion first, that's much more important. I found I needed to take grip out of the front (rather than add grip to the rear) to stop the behaviour you are getting. Too much front end grip causes the back end to fishtail under power and digs in on fast corners giving grip roll. Get the hardest tyres you can on the front. I run JAP 52 shores. Some people like to run a bit of superglue around the outside edge of the front tyres too - try that if you don't have any hard foams to stick on.

My mardave is currently running a diff so I will try both of your idea thanks for the help guys:thumbsup:

Only do one at a time tho, try superglue on ur current front tyres n if that don't work get harder front foams. What fronts u running ATM Ryan?

45 fronts 47 rear

That's your problem for sure. You need to have harder fronts than rears - you might even find swapping your tyres front to rear helps. Last time out (quite a few months back before you started coming) I was running 35 rear 52 front. My car was usually fast enough to qualify in the top 5 overall, including all the touring cars.

ill have a look at the weekend. i will swap the tyres tommorow first heat see how i get on