MIP “Real Shocks” Bypass1 pistons
 

The team at MIP have been working hard behind the scenes on their newest Hi-Tech innovation – “Real Shocks” Bypass1 Piston technology!!

Unlike any piston seen before in the R/C industry, these pistons are inspired by full size off road vehicles. The description of what these pistons are designed to accomplish will change your definition of how you thought a shock absorber should work.


A noticeable problem was MIP’s motivation for giving birth to “Real Shocks” Bypass1 patent-pending technology, and what better shock design is there besides real off-road trophy truck shocks?
MIP’s top engineers studied and decoded the Off-Road Vehicle shocks, and came up with their very own version of shock bypass technology! For more information check out their all new “Real Shocks” website.

· Full Scale Bypass technology for R/C cars, trucks and buggies

· Precision machined pistons made from bearing grade plastics

· Colour coded valves for easy set-up and assembly

· Octagon shaped pistons to reduce drag and keep the piston guided in the shock bore

· Dyno tested to match the rebound flow of stock pistons

· Direct replacement for stock pistons, no modifications required to fit

Available for Associated, HPI, Losi, TLR and Traxxas shocks

www.realshocks.com

I saw an article about this a few days back. I'm very curious how much an improvement it will be :) Looks interesting for sure!

Surely in the photos the valve is up-side-down?

As you want the damping to be upward, and the piston to move quicker downward - so the shock can recover a bump quicker ready for the next? Anyone else think this too?

If the piston is free to move up, but recovers slower, this I see as a bad thing. Which is how I see it would work the way the piston is assembled in the images. :/

Car shocks work this way to with rebound damping

mvh Isobarik

I think that at slow speeds, the valve is not supposed to work, so the piston reacts like your usual RC piston.

The valve should open when facing bumps at speed where the piston speed is high and you don't want pack. (I wonder how it will work on jumps though)

So, unlike RPM 2-stage pistons that had a different damping depending the side and were supposed to be "heavier" on compression, MIP pistons are the same on both ways but "open" instead of packing heavily, like on 1/1 cars.

It does say on the MIP page that you can run them the other way round

it looks so complicated :bored:

We run these on the original Predator car.
Richard Weatherley designed these over ten years ago and were used on Kevin Moores car and William Mitchams etc etc !!!!

Nice idea and works in certain conditions but for the life of me i don't understand the hex part - why would you want oil by passing the piston holes apart from just opening the valve - Strange in my opinion!!

Hi Gayo, it doesn't add up. When the car takes a bit hit/big landing, you want more damping/pack not less?

For example, Ghea pistons with rounded edge on the under side gives more pack on compression, and quicker return/recovery.... they work. You don't want them the other way around certainly not. I love Ghea pistons btw. :lol:

Im no engineer, and im open minded, but this is blatantly obvious to me. They are an ace idea, but they ought to get the images the right way around :lol:, and I would try them running them (the right way).

what we really need/want is 3-stage pistons.

usual 'roll' to be a certain damping, landing off jumps to be a certain damping, and then a big rut hit to be another kind of damping.

on a super bumpy track when your wheel smacks the face of a rut, you want your wheel to get out of the way VERY QUICKLY and not upset the chassis.

Chris - The picture is correct matey
The piston is forced upwards on landing and therefore the holes get restricted and hence more pack - Obviously they open with the force of the oil going through the holes but no as quick

Chris is right as always too - LOL :o

If my memory is correct this was tried before when one of the major American shock building company’s was asked if it would work and if they would try and build a set.
The end result was that due to the shock sizes used within radio controlled cars that it would not work as good as the standard shock piston style we use now.<O:p></O:p>

dont agree tony, as the shock shaft is pushed up the valves when on the bottom open allowing the piston to move quicker,

the idea of the hex is to allow an amount of oil in both directions, blank the holes and the piston moves as normal with oil going round the hex gaps and piston bore, now add holes and the damping is softer/less pack, now add valves and one way the oil can by pass as hex and holes, the other way the piston can only use the hex for the oil to bypass the piston

chris, some of the rally x guy used to use them as in the pictures to allow the suspension to react quick over smaller bumps, as chrsi d said to prevent the car from kicking up, the slower damping prevents a pogo reaction too, though as you know on a hard hit it will not have enough pack, which is why chris d says we need 3 way damping

Mark - I am refering to the valves used on normal pistons.

I remember those well, CraigD was making little valves out of brown paper to go under the pistons when we were testing at EPO too!

My Dad used to constantly say how the technology inside our shocks will have to move forwards, purely based on what they've done with Motocross bikes - The suspension is SO advanced compared to what R/C has been using for the last few years, even a scaled down version has to work in R/C - Just look at the jumps they can do on an MX bike with no problem of bottoming out etc...

So basically BTCC spec dampers with adjustable high medium and low speed damping and rebound

:confused: which picture you on about then?:confused:

If you place the valve at the bottom of a ordinary piston. On impact the hole will be closed and then will open via the force of the oil through the holes (no hex pistons)

I'm sure I had something very much like these on my Tamiya Supershot shocks back in '87.

copy and paste from my X10 review a few years back -

The front shocks use a flat flexible disk under the piston, which Ttech describe as a “rebound valve”, the general idea of this seems to be to allow the shocks to react quicker to hits on compression but on rebound the disc would then block the hole in the piston slowing the return slightly. Some people seem to be either taking this off or using it on the other way around, at the top of the piston, slowing the compression and speeding up the rebound, either way its another tuning option.

oposite to what chris was saying then!:p

Which is what I predict is how the MIP ones will work best. :thumbsup:

woOdy had them too in 1995 (I think it was) I thought they worked well on the dirt.

I agree with chris, iv disassembled and rebuilt shocks for full size racing cars and i cant see a reason why you would want a faster bump than rebound. The shims would want to be on top of the piston so the piston would have the required amount of damping/pack but then a faster reaction on rebound to keep the wheel in contact with the ground for traction. Maybe for some surfaces of touring car racing they could be run the other way round for a slower rate of rebound. As for three way shocks i doubt the internals required could be made so small for rc shocks, this is achieved by having a small bypass tube around the shock with a spring loaded bleed off valve. this would then make for four way adjustable, fast and slow speed bump and rebound. This when you really could tie yourself in knots.

would on small undulating bump the stiffer up travel not ride bumps, and unsettle the chassis as chris d said? if the shock can react quicker to the smaller bumps the chassis would stay flatter and the wheel in contact with the ground?

shim stacks. mmm nice.

Yes, Tamiya used "Valve seats" in the Hotshot back in 1985. You used them to adjust rebound and compression by placing on either or both sides.

Tamiya Fox had so called "Valve Wafers" the same year. First buggy they released with C.V.A shocks. (Constant Volume Adjustable)
Also used on Super Shot 1986.

Shocks are a complicated item on full scale cars and even more complicated on full scale racing cars! Do we really want to take R/C racing to that kind of level? motor Cross etc. Guys on bikes are tying not to break ankles! We are not (unless you don't like marshalls :().

I'm very impressed on my return to RC racing on the quality of new kits and the low price! The MIP option does not look to be a big price tag and will fit right in... all is good so far.

So are they backward? I think not. What is the shock trying to do? Well firstly it's trying to keep the car stable and control the spring so the tires stay on the ground and you get maximum traction. Thus on a sudden hit (upward movement) the spring collapses - if there is to much resistence in the shock/spring combo the suspension wont react fast enough and the tire will bounce over the obsticle resulting in loss of control. Not enough and the suspension will bottom out sending the energy though the chassis and also causing bounce and loss of control. Following upward movement the shock must then control the return rate of the spring to slow it down otherwise you get bounce again. What MIP is trying to do in the image is to let the suspension absorb the upward movement quickly and control the downward movement more progressively.

Thus for tracks with big jumps you could use much heavier oils as there is more flow on the upward movements (through the hex sides and piston holes), without losing finer movements on say moggles or pavers etc. In Aus there are no dead flat sections. The car does not necessarilly need to return to ride height at a blinding rate, other wise it will hop off the surface of the track once again losing traction and control.

The more time the tire is in contact with the surface more traction you have = more acceleration/more steering etc...

In the end it is another tuning option to boggle your brain on that quest to fine tune the car. For me not crashing will be a good start!:confused:

Its bad enough on the bike, trying to get the rebound, compression, blowoff and lockout settings matched front to rear. God knows how you would manage left to right and front to rear.......

As Tony says there's nothing new here, I'm surprised it's taken this long to hit the rc market. Because it's relatively time consuming and difficult to experiment with damping on our cars, there are few people who bother to much, therefore there is relatively little understanding in the sport. 1:1 road cars sometimes have as much as Y value compression damping and Yx2 rebound damping. Racing cars tend to have less as passenger comfort is less important. These pistons will not be right for all racing scales with (for example) a 10mm damper body, the rquirements for buggys and tourers can be quite different. The number and size of the holes that the valve opens and closes will still be critical and have a huge effect on how they perform, as will the thickness of that shim that sits between the circlip and the valve discs. I wonder what happens if you remove a disc too? Ultra precise engineering is crucial for these bits to work properly though. We have been getting there recently with the advent of machined damper pistons but it starts with your shock body and how worn they are. Are things really accurate enough? I wonder. Have you driven your car on the 'wrong' pistons? If you have then you know how much difference it makes and how important it is to get it right. If / when someone hits the sweetspot with these things then they could be killer, however sometimes we are blessed by having a choice of just 3 lol

For what it's worth, I thought big landings were absorbed by springs, diaphrams or compensators and chassis on ground, as the damper travel is often overcome in these circumstances. ie, little point setting up for it. I might be wrong ;-)

Dampening Control off a jump is critical to regaining control. The more control you have the easier it will be to get power down again and accellerate. If the car is bucking and kicking sideways and bouncing from chassis slap, you're going to have a hard time.

You've all probably seen this but, have good think about how critical the suspension setup is from go to whoa, traction is critical for acceleration and the landing especially!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SjX7A_FR6g

In an area of track where the shim stacks are most active, it looks to me like there could be a 'jacking down' problem.
The more the shim stacks are worked, (i.e. like a fast straight with lots of little bumps) the more 'one way valve' effect is present as there is no rebound stack to compensate.

I believe in full sized motor sport it is common to back off the high speed rebound until you achieve an acceptable ride height at high shock velocity.

yeah youre memory still serves you well :thumbsup:

(spelling)

mvh Isobarik

so is anyone using these?? i think i will get a set soon

I think you should learn how to use the normal shocks properly first before you buy these.

i think you should buy a car that dosnt come from 1908