Is the TLR22 not proving that popular
 

Browsing the For Sale section the 22 seems to be the most popular car people are selling. And lots of them are effectively described as "hardly used". Does anybody have any thoughts about this? Does the car not suit our UK style tracks or something? Is it difficult to work on? There must be some reason people aren't willing to persevere with them beyond the usual fact that as a group we are suckers for the Next Big Thing and the 22 may be seen as last years car.

I think the losi sold by the truck load as at the price every one wanted to try it..and with rear mid options just couldn't go wrong, BUT maybe it's not for everyone,I have one and I have to say I just can't seem to settle with it:cry:.just can't find that settled sweet spot that I had with a B4:eh?:

Cougar was simmilar, so many years of looking at a B4 many people wanted change, the cougar was it, good stable, dedicated mid motor kit, had to be a hit sold by the truck load.....one of the worst cars to ever hit the market...sorry,

Now people are being drawn to the durango offerings

Same old thing a few top club racers jump ship the sheep follow.
Ive stayed with my 22 and just driven it.

I have to say my tlr22 is the best 2wd I have ever owned. Including ae and xfactory. It's so precise yet forgiving. It never takes much setting up. It's really easy to drive with a ton of grip. At batley indoor track (known to be like ice on the polished surface) my tyres were squeeling.
Too many people gave up with then when they didn't have the sweet spot setup wise. They wanted it to come out of the box perfectly set up but that doesn't happen overnight. Whilst the uk team did us a very fine job of giving us a starting point. It was never going to be perfect for everyone with the time and the weather conditions they had to work with.

If u have a 22 and are thinking of selling it. Pm me and I'll give u my setup. My car is as good as anything else out there at the min!!

Before anyone starts, I don't think the chap started this thred to slam the 22,It's a good car. just wanted to see why some are selling...cars are like marmite, one person loves it, the other dislikes it.:wub.It depends on a lot of factors,possably the biggest ones being what tracks you race at, your style of driving..and your set up skills:blush:.

Exactly, I was just curious that's all, hope nobody does interpret it as a dig at the 22. The best result I've ever had was with a Losi (XXX-CR) so I've nowt against the brand. As I said in my first post it just struck me that there are an awful lot of them for sale and I know things like the Durango are "in" now but me being the simple sod I am I couldn't (and still can't) see the point of jumping out of say a 22 into something so similar. I suppose it just confirms my thoughts that as a group we often don't stick with things if they don't work immediately.

I have now acquired my second 22 to run in rear

I do know what the initial author meant. There are a lot of 22 on oople and I am surprised as anyone as I think as a design of a car goes it is pretty sweet. I guess the next thing is the centro but for value for money a 22 is cheap and the spares are cheap especially imported from the USA. I think my mid drives very similar to a 4wd car. This is my humble opinion.

I wonder if it is the lack of high profile losi drivers. I maybe wrong but 2wd has
X factory has Ellis Stafford
Associated centro has loads like Neil Cragg
Tamiya has lee Martin and Marc Reinhard
Durango has Hupo
Schumacher has Tom Cockerill

Please do not take offense but as promotion goes these guys are in racer with their cars. Losi never has a photo of a driver 'promoting' a car in the Uk. Not to just buy it, but to retain people driving it, upgrading in it, investing in it etc

Really interested in peoples opinion on this

I couldn't agree more. I've owned my 22 since the launch and the more I drive it, the more I love it. It did have teething trouble at the start (no rear end grip) but since installing the Cream RC weight and moving the esc further back it is now perfectly balanced - despite running bald rear tyres. They are also unbelievaly tough.

Definately a car worth sticking with

Umm no high profile drivers.......:confused:
One mr Darren Bloomfield maybe:o pretty sure he won the worlds warm up with the car and indoors recently has been winning quite a bit.
Sure correct me if i'm wrong guys but i'd say he a pretty good promotion for losi....

I've had my 22 since launch first batch, since owning it i have bought and sold a cougar, X6 and am now trying a centro back to back against it for my driving style and outright reliability / durability it wipes the floor with these 3!!

I do think its a very fashion and track thing tbh

I love my 22 outdoors with grip it was insanely good! Wen grip went it struggled but I have stuck with it

Since indoors again lower grip it struggled but I've changed fings and now its comin good, jus done speartooth today so that will be interesting again.

What u lack mayb in some areas you gain in others, 22 jumps insane and is so strong over others but mayb lacks grip at times but if like me jumpin is a weak point for me it works out quicker car.

Every car and race will suit different styles and cars it seems the losi doesn't suit everone but doesn't mean its for no one

I love it ! I now know what I have to do in terms of niggles so I won't change that's for sure!

Russ

22 on clay
 

Hello all,

I bought the 22 as soon as it came out.
Unlike most people here I run on a clay track that
usually doesn't have high amounts of grip.
So I always run the car rear motor setup.
I really struggled to get the rear end to stick.
When the track was moist and grip levels were high the
car was really, really good.
Other guys were selling the 22 because they had the same
problems I did.
I stuck with it and after some experimenting the car is now
good even when grip levels are low.
But isn't setting up the car part of the hobby?
It did require a dremel............but the car has great feel and
is as durable as a sherman tank.
I even run the standard diff (the first one included with the kit).

Greetings

Hans

Its worth knowin what everyone who has stuck with it did to make the rear work in low grip

I did cream weight, lengthened links and shortened wheelbase as far as would go in mid format

Same here, as well as making a metal bracket for esc to sit on above lipos

Cream weight:wub, long links, short rear wheelbase, turned stuby lipo round 90degrees, Rudebits under lipo brass weight moved back till it's almost touching the motor. That got it to run at 4wd speeds on wet grass the last time I raced it at my local club, now got the gear diff to have a play with.

here is my current indoor setup as requested by a couple of members

in the file there is explanations as to why i have done certain things

my car is pretty stock with no modded parts all bits available off the rack

my car has stacks of grip the rear end is totally locked in

hope this helps

any questions just ask

steve

thats very interesting that you use AE pads and spur.

As for set up looks like one ive used to use near enuf,

i find the anti squat on this car very interesting, you run 4 like i used to but everyone else seems to run low amounts, ive gone to 1 now and its different to drive but good.

I think antisquat on the losi depends on your driving style il try some more at players to see what difference it makes to me.

There are alot of losi's for sale lately but id say with new rango and vega / c4 theres just so many now to choose people do swap and change to se what suits them. Id say stick with a car for at least a year to give it time to adapt for your driving

The high antisquat is due to the fact that the car in mid form has stacks of side bite so the car is really stable and locked in on corner entry. But I find the the antisquat combined with the stood up rear shock creates boat loads of forward drive when u need it the most. Ie when you put the power down on corner exit.
Without this the car wants to kick out under acceleration


Ae spur and pads are night n day better than Losi
The adjustment range is so much larger. With Losi I found an 1/8th of a turn either way meant the difference between locked n slipping too much!!

Very interestin mate, having jus gone speartooth as got cheap I will try current set up then progress with squat and shocks at players event to see difference

I think wen outdoors starts again various stuff will need to b reduced as its so good in grip conditions

There are a couple of 'problems' with the Losi 22, which is why there are plenty for sale.
First problem is that there isn't a large number of team drivers with race wins under their belt, so there isn't a ready database of good setups for UK tracks, while there is a choice for most other makes.
It used to be that drivers would get a new car, then spend time testing it to get the setup right for that driver, as before the internet there were no available setup sheets. Nowadays you buy the car then look up the team drivers setup for the type of track you are racing on, and that's it. If the setup doesn't work or there aren't setups available then most drivers are stuck and sell on the car for something else that works straight away rather than spending time to develop their own setup.

The other problem is timing. Losi release the 22 so there's now a relatively cheap alternative for a mid motored car, but then CML starts dominating with the C4.1 and Durango turns up with the DEX210 with much better support, so the "car to have" was no longer the 22, so everyone buys the new cars.


JACKOR33, you have just proven martgiffords point, Darren Bloomfield isn't a big name in 1/10th right now and they don't have any other big names. How many of last years nationals did he run at and how many did Darren win? The only time he has made the news is the Worlds warm up, the fact that you know Darren has been winning at indoor meetings that don't generate lots of news headlines isn't that much good promotion at all.

I'm glad someone agrees with me. I noticed there are some drivers coming through in the TLR team its just I don't see them in Racer, holding the car, saying what they have won. Bare in mind I am talking about 1/10th electric 2wd, not 4wd, not nitro (which I think Darren is more well-known for).

It's funny to read that many of you apparently actually have the money to try out all these cars :o I just made the consideration between the TRF201 or the TLR22 this summer - and in the end went for the 201, considering it was based off a B4 (which seems to be a safe and popular choice for racing and bashing) and I have some history with collecting Tamiyas. I don't have money to sell it on and get another car to try out, though I have to say that this being my first truly modern competition buggy I absolutely love it!

Of the 22 I also heard there were some quality issues with stuff like chassis plates in some kits that weren't straight. It's bad news of course, but if you look at all the brands: The 22 apparently has bent parts from the box, the DEX210 no spares availability and a diff you could get a certificate for if you manage to build it right, the TRF201 has an idler that turned out to be weak and the part to which the front shock tower mounts is hardly available but is something that I've already damaged a couple of times, and the list goes on :lol:

That was with a rear-motor configured car on a dirt track. The lack of success is with mid-motor on astro.

Can't judge a car just buy it's High profile wins, there are about 5ish drivers in the UK who could win a national with just about any car you give them. Lee martin drives the 201 into many top class wins...do we form a que for the 201? B4 is still the best car on the market as far as world results....yet how many people have changed away?

Judge a good car by it's regional club results and national results accross the field, a good car should be strong, made of good materials,be quite easy to set up to drive well and have good retail back up. And it shouldn't need loads of extra money spent on it,or loads of hacking with a dremal to get it to work.

The losi is a good car,but if you strugle to find a setup to sute you it can be quite unplesant to drive:cry:, thats not to say it's not a good car once you get it there

I think with the genaration of new mid,narrow cars is you must know how to set a car up to do what YOU want,as what you want maybe very diffrent to what bloomers,cragg, martin etc want. I along with a few other have tried a bloomers setup on my losi 8ight,we still can't work out how the hell he drives it:blush::D.


In rallyx a few years back Dave Crompton was untouchable with his crono for several years,The only people brave enough to run a crono were a few team mates.....there was no que to buy one

I feel its more about fashion than anything else. It seems to run in cycles, and very much having the latest car out seems to be something certain racers always do, then the next big thing comes along and a whole bunch of cars come up for sale and a differant thread on oople gets popular.
The hard bit is being able to shrug your shoulders and carry on with what you have.
I was certainly a better racer when i managed to stick to the same car for a whole season let alone when i raced the same car for 2 or seasons.

Funny discussion all this. It seems to be very much a fashion thing lately, and also, I know many a Durango driver running the 22 in 2wd that has now changed for the dex210.

If TLR makes a good 4wd, that would bring back a lot of drivers. Being a brand with only a 2wd, in a market where every other manufacturer now can offer both, cannot be easy. The 22 is a great car, and working for the distributor means I have to drive one, But I'd rather like a Bmax2 to go along with my Bmax4:P

I can't imagine why the cars design would chase people away, and I believe it would just take a Lee Martin, Neil Cragg, a more electrifocused Bloomers or something like that to get drivers back on the wagon... That, and a 4wd.

I can understand the thinking behind this thread as i have noticed a air few for sale recently too.

but there are also lots of Cougars changing hands regularly too...

Horizon sold an amazing amount of 22's in UK last year as it was a new concept of kit, was very reasonably priced in comparison to Cougar or a conversion cost of kit+ new chassis etc, had been kept quiet and nothing else was due for launch at that time or the following months... since then the DEX210 and C4.1 have been seen on tracks tested and released which will balance the field up with less running existing cars to try the next big thing or more an easier life.

Agree with the Losi Team folllowing in UK... i the car had a strong team of top drivers at National level then i feel opinions would be different.

The internet/forums popularity these days causes personal opinions to turn into rumours very quickly an this justs boosts brand rivalry and banter track side.

One thing that has been overlooked though... if they are for sale, they do sell quickly which means new drivers into the TLR fold :thumbsup:

I love my 22 (all 3 of them!) will be sticking with it and going into this years outdoor season with set up knowledge tried and tested last year rather than starting from scratch :p

No r/c kit i've tried has ever felt right or instantly made me world champion out of the box, all have lots of settings to adjust, thats without the crop of shiny aftermarket tuning aids that are thrown at us these days.... just takes time to try them all to find a personal set up, its all part of the fun!

The 22 is a very good car, but its design ( roll centers, weight distribution, etc ) is largely based for the US-style tracks. So it has a lot of forward grip to attack big jumps coming out of the corners, and it likes to rotate on a dime because the US tracks are often less flowing (lots of 90/180deg. sharp turns) than the European / UK tracks.

Big plus for this is that the 22 is a monster on the tight indoor tracks.

Biggest problem that I found with it was the pistons. Sad because on the previous losi shocks the pistons were super consistent. Now on the versions I've seen (haven’t seen recent ones though, so maybe there better at this time) the pistons weren't flat and the holes weren't always drilled straight. But there are a couple of really good aftermarket pistons available, so easy solution right there.

If you have trouble with the amount of steering while exiting corners, just adjust the rear anti-squad so it doesn't transfer as much weight to the rear while accelerating

I've modded the rear hubs. I've lowered them by about 2mm. It gives the car a lot more stability on longer sweeping turns.

Also changed the slipper, I replaced the stock items with the AE slipperpads (and AE style spur) and I switched back to the old slipperspring which is more consistent.

Apart from that. Excellent piece of machinery :thumbsup:

Same thing is happening here in the U.S., I bought 2 to run one as a mid and one as a rear. Both were second hand and almost new , saved a ton of money. But it was just overkill so I'm selling one to make room.... for the 210 which arrived today.... second hand but still new in the box again saving $$$ .

Now if I could find a deal like that on a C6 Corvette I would be :thumbsup:

I ordered 50 sets of tires yesterday I should be set for a while. Panther.

I now want to see mr bloomfield in Racer selling that car. Well done on the super win at Area 51. Il eat my words.

The 22 is actually a really good car. And in terms of quality for a 10th buggy it's build like a tank. I still have yet to break anything or have anything need replacing in over 6 months of ownership.

The problem with the 22 is that it is designed for low grip American clay tracks and as such has far too much front end grip for uk tracks.

If you follow bloomfields setup though, including the spindle camber link mod then it transforms the car. I have tried it along with the battery mod and running 104g weight and the cream weight and rather than too much steering I now have under steer. A tiny bit too much infact for my style so I jut need to dial that out.

Fact is though if you are struggling to make the car work for you then put some time in to using the bloomers setup as your starting point. He is employed by TLR to test cars all day so who better to listen to. It's not gonna be for everyone but it's a great start point and completely changes the car.

Where do we find the setup. Is it carpet or Astro and also is there anyway it might not be in adobe reader. Its a nightmare program. What happened to good old fashioned word

http://www.petitrc.com/setup/losi/se...023/index.html

i beleive this is the base setup he runs for any surface

i think the build quality is one of the best...

great car..

most annoying thing about it is the space inside when runniing mid, everything has to be micro (or you need to buy a new shell and mod sides)

bloomers
 

Can you post a picture of the modded camberlinks bloomer runs...

Thanks

Have a look at this picture. Look at were the camber links are now, then look to the side and you will see the extra ball stud.

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/area5...m/OOP_8243.jpg

Her is a picture

Bloomy
 

Thanks for the pictures. I read some material had to be removed from the hub. How much?

How do you like this setup. Pros and cons?

I race 17.5 non boosted on a tight indoor carpet track.

Any feed back would be appreciated.

Thanks again for the pictures.

It should be half the size (take off 3mm)
You need longer Turnbuckels to.
I just made ​​the modification so I have not tried the car yet.

As Flode has mentioned remove 3mm, you will then need to redrill the hole to open it up to 3mm in size, this alows the long ball stud to go through and only grip on the caster block and not the spindle, this allows your steering to still be free moving and smooth. You will need longer turnbuckes, losi do a 55mm length pair TLR6071, i would build up a seperate set so you can do as Darren has done and quickly change from the standard link positions to these modified ones if necessary.

On track - You will notice the car will feel very similar going in to the turn but it will let go of the turn quicker, the biggest difference i found was getting out of a corner on power as the rear end would stay in line much more and calm the car down as the front would let go of the turn, most peoples inboard cars that i have done this mod to prefer it, but on the outboard car it is not good and not a mod i would recommend.
If you ever need more steering as Darren did at the Area 51gp you just go back to the standard link.

Remember to space up the ball studd on the bulkhead to 3mm when you run the modified link and lower the ball stud when you run the standard link position

Si

i havent used longer turnbuckles, but as Si says above.
much nice to drive.