Problems with 210 Ball Diff
 

Built my DEX210 and have been running it without issue for 3 weeks, last time out the diff appeared to loosen off, and after trying to tighten it, the car had no drive, something slipping bad.

So I stripped down the diff and checked the slipper assembly and pads. Slipper looked fine, however the diff balls didn't look to be in great condition, so I opted for the Lazy Balls and rebuilt the diff again today. However when the car is assembled (Mid Motor 4 Gear Setup) I lifted the car up and by hand, turned one of the rear wheels, the other wheel turned in the same direction, when I put the car down and throttled, I get bad slipping and no drive.

The problem appears to be the same as when the original kit diff balls were used. I'm kinda stuck now with what to try next. The diff was built to the instructions, and I checked the thrust bearing cage and washers, and replaced the e-clip. the diff screw turns on the thrust bearing by hand. The diff was originally tightened full and backed off about an eighth of a turn. The slipper pads are fine and the slipper nut in tightened with about 7mm thread showing.

Any ideas why the wheels are turning in the same direction by hand ? they should turn against one another when off the ground right ?

very confused, all the other gears and the layshaft have been checked, and nothing looks out of place.

HELP!!! :confused:

Have you tryed holding the spur gear and turning one wheel

Sounds like the circlip has popped out of it's slot to me.

When I hold the spur gear and turn a wheel, both wheels still rotate in the same direction.

I'll need to strip it down again tonight and check the circlip.

Raymond

I don't get why manufacturers suggest to tighten the diff all the way and then back it off X amount. This is a recipe for disaster IMO and certainly 'fully tightened' is open to interpretation. If you tighten the diff up as tight as your hands will allow then you're going to damage the plates and potentially other components too.

I hope I'm allowed to post this here - there are a number of video's detailing how to build and set the diff and slipper clutch. Don't agree with packing the grease in personally but in general it seems quite accurate.

Diff building and setting

BTW this is not to say you have overtightened your diff, but when you mentioned the 'backing it off' bit, I thought this might be of help.

Defo sounds like your circlip has pushed out. Its quite hard to spot when this happens. Rebuild the diff and when you put the circlip in, expand it with some circlip pliers to make sure its sits in the groove correctly. Also make sure the flat side of the circlip is facing the correct way round.

To cause this problem there can still only be two things happening: Parts that have become faulty in the use they've had, or something goes wrong during building.

Though I believe you on it you built it as per manual, I suggest you go through the process once more, and like others have suggested, don't tighten the diff fully and then loosen it. Slightly increase the pressure instead and test whether the gear can still slip between the plates or not.

I made a build thread recently with a detailed guide for the diff. I read through all the problems, ideas and solutions and applied them to my diff build, so perhaps there's something small in there you missed?

If it still doesn't work, I'd suggest you have a good look at the remaining parts, the thrust bearing and the diff screw in particular. The diff screw's blue seal/threadlock might not be sufficient to keep the screw from becoming loose, and as such it might becomes loose the first time you put power onto it. The issues with the thrust bearing could be that it's slipping because of too much grease, the balls could be damaged, or the races.

This what happened on my diff and what I did to fix it.

I would be tightening the diff 1/4 turn at a time, them spin it a bit to bed it in. Then eventually I would hear a loud click and the diff would go all tight and hard spin, but the diff gear would slip.


The diff screw was pushing the diff spring up to the diff nut rather them compressing the nut down on to the diff spring. There maybe a bur on the diff spring or on the diff screw which getting caught. By removing these burs, this allowed the spring to freely slide over the diff screw.

I have about a 1.0mm cap between the diff nut and the outdrive cup.

In the second kit, the diff went together first go and I've had no problems when using it.


Hope this helps

Thanks to everyone for their advice, the problem was indeed with the circlip. It had moved and wasnt tight , i replaced the clip anf tightened the diff a little at a time, testing each time, and then adjusted the slipper to suit on track, appears to be working now, i'll need to keep an eye on the circlip next time.

Thanks.
Raymond

There was the same problem on rctech which truned out to be the circlip poping out when he tightned it and diff not working then when he took it apart the circlip poped back in in the process of dismanteling it.

I still think that people should check the thrust washers as there is different diameters, the larger one (difference is only about .3mm) should go against the thrust washer to get maximal contact when screwed against it.

Tighten, test, tighten some more. I'm not sure who suggests you should tighten all the way but TD don't.

Simply put an Associated B4.1 ball diff or the Associated SC10 2WD gear diff in your dex210 !
Only buy yourself 2 other bearings like these http://www.jespares.com/fixings?page...roduct_id=1699
and some shims like these http://www.jespares.com/electric-mod...oduct_id=10105
With these flanged bearings in the gearbox, you only have to use 2 x 4 shims and it fits perfect !
So you can run the car with no problems, I put the gear diff from SC10 in my dex210 and its very smooth :thumbsup:

Why flanged bearings? You can't use kits biearing?

You can also use the kit bearings, but you have to use much more shims !
I believe 2mm more to fil with shims, but it is possible... ;)

Thanks!! I will try with the normal bierings :thumbsup:

What brand of oil & weight are you putting into the gear diff?

between 1000w and 3000W is usual :)

Schumacher (in at least the Cougar sv pro instructions)
Associated (in at least the B44 & B44.1 instructions)

According to the instructins I had with the above cars.

At least for me this procedure has been working for years. I'm running the B4/4.1 since it has been released. Did the same with the Fandango diff and so far no problems. Didn't know about the different inner diameter thrust washers, I have to admit, but since there's a 50% chance to build it right, I might have been lucky ;)

You mean the larger thrust washer needs to go against the snap ring....the smaller one goes inside the diff first.

Check out the new diff build guide on the TD website... http://www.team-durango.com/blog/201...ild-guide-pt1/ Tells you exactly how to build the diff and getting it working properly.

I've got 4 full race days (about 23 battery packs) through my STOCK diff...balls and thrusts, and its still as smooth as day one. :thumbsup:

I have to say I'm kind of intrigued by the Associated gear diff, as I'm of the mentality that it's one less thing to go wrong - plus, I'm unsure as to what setup advantages you get by using a ball diff (I know they are slightly lighter in weight, but surely a gear diff is more tuneable with different viscosity oils?)

Can anyone tell me, is there any difference between the gear diff recommended (the Associated AS9827 Sc10/B4.1 Gear diff) and the Associated SC10 4x4 Gear diff AS91008. I guess there is as they're different part numbers...

The SC10 4x4 is 32 pitch.

Thank you!

Hopsing:

Yes thats right, its so the smaller diameter washer doesn't have pressure on the inside dia. of the clip. The larger on squeezes against the outside area of the clip and hopefully if its in the right way round will then in turn push the clip against the groove that its sitting in

Ran the AE 2WD SC10 gear diff in my 210 today at Torch, and cant say it felt much different-Mainly as it was damp and slippy. But it feels great and has bed in nicely. I have just used loads of shims, but will be ordering the flanged bearings. If anyone like's gear diffs, its a route to go down. Im not a massive fan of ball diffs, As i'm a 1/8th racer at heart and love geared diffs. Just thought I would share my opinions on it so far.

jamie does it fit straight on to the durango bearings or did you use ae ones on it ?

Hey Martin-I used the stock Rango bearings but I had to use loads of TD shims tbh. More than I would be comfortable leaving it like that. It worked fine today, But I will be trying out the flanged bearings that was posted on the page before this. As that will then take away alot of the space.

ok cheers mate will take a look :thumbsup:

I ran the SC10 diff in the TLR 22 and have taken it out to try in the 210 and will test it at some point. I found it verty good but have to say I am finding the 210 ball diff very good at the moment.

No worries buddy:)

Hotshot.. Can you point me to a shop that have 'em in stock?

JE Sp*res

Part Number -9827
:thumbsup:

Easy Jamie,

Hope you're well mate? Just wondering what shims and oil you put in your diff?

I haven't run mine yet, but have put 2k oil in it and 1 shim behind each of the sun gears.

Az will testify how much I hate diff gears (I think he rebuilt my tc one more than I did!) so thought I'd just save myself the hassle of having to deal with the ball diff!

Hey Oli! Yeah i'm good thanks pal!

Yeah im with you on the ball diff front.. cant be dealing with that!

I ran loads of the stock-Durango diff shims in mine.. and a few home made shims to pack it out. But have ordered a set of these bearings to use, then I think you should only need a couple of shims on each side if you run the flanged bearings. In the page before this one from JE.

It was noticeably more punch on initial accel- like the 410 is compared to other cars on the start line. And its very fit and forget unlike ball diffs. Which in my view are too much hassle for very minimal gain if any imho. I ran 3k on sunday, but have dropped it down to 1k to try this weekend to see. As that is what a few of the TD Team have run when they have run diffs. But its mainly for trial tbh. It was to wet to get much of a feel of the 3k if i'm honest.
Hope this helps bud!

Jamie

IF built to Spec the Durango ball diff is the best I have ever used 6 races on it and took a look today and everything is a good as the day I built it and still smooth as silk.

Cheers dude!

What I actually meant was, what shims have you used inside the diff, behind the big gears - they supply you with 2 large shims for each side to help take up and play in the diff, but it was tight as when I fitted both of them so I have just used one on each side?

Already got the flanges bearings and with them you just need to use 10 0.2mm shims (5 on each side) so its not too bad.

Oh right, Um.. I think I fitted it like the manual suggests.. it did feel a tad tight if im honest. But after sundays use it has bedded in really nice.

Cool, so you used both shims behind each gear. From what I read you can add the second shim once you rebuild, but I couldn't really work out what they were going on about!

I did it as the manual said I think, I cant remember seeing any shims left over tbh.. but then again it was late at night when I did it haha