Bankers! Give the uk back our money!
 

As title says:thumbdown:

What exactly is your point here????

don't think they kept it bro, its a lot more complicated than that.

besides, i'd rather talk about rc.

how much?
 

How much do they owe you?

Matisse this section is for off topic non Rc stuff

If you are tax payer lots!

It's not our money, that's quite safe in the bank you left it in. The Government didn't buy things from the banks using our money either. The problem is people who borrowed money from the banks and couldn't pay it back. Banks tied up these loans in complex financial instruments, traded them and then found they were worthless. If the Government had let the banks go bust, they would have taken our money with them.

As a taxpayer you haven't given any money to the banks, you have made them a loan on favourable terms in order to ensure that you don't lose the money you have deposited with them. The banks have to pay back that money, with interest.

As a taxpayer, you are paying more because overall this country is paying less tax as we are buying less, being paid less and more people are out of work; and yet we still have a country to run. The biggest 'crime' is the way companies pay a pittance in tax. If you are concerned about what you are having to pay and want them to pay their share, stop going to Tesco (22% tax rate) Vodafone (avoided a £4bn bill on the purchase of Mannesman) and scores of other companies avoid tax on an industrial scale. Google it!

We have borrowed huge amounts from others (via Government bonds) and eventually this has to be paid back, with interest. You can buy Government bonds and earn interest if you like - the UK's bonds are still one of the safest around.

What money of yours do you think they have that they owe you? All the people I know have not lost a penny to the banks. :confused:

I thought the uk tax payer bailed the banks!
and while I am at it why are uk service providers like British gas putting up utility bills all the time then recording massive record profits when we lose 27 thousand oaps a year due to the cold and not being able to heat their homes?

As Slowone said, we loaned them the money at favourable rates or became majority shareholders. In future those shares can be sold back to recoup the money with interest.
If either of those scenarios counts as a bailout then yes the govt did:D

Because they are not charities but businesses and have shareholders to answer to
Because the state pension is too low
Because people didn't save into their own pension as they trusted the state to look after them, etc, etc

Who's loaning the struggling small businesses at a favourable rate to stop them going under?
Any one been to the hospitals recently? They are a joke? The staff are all mega maxed out!
Where I live it takes 5 hours to get seen at a&e

They will be in breech of their targets then Scott, as A&E has a 4 hour wait!

The NHS is struggling with the imposed savings at present, but like all enormous nationalised companies there is always a large amount of inefficiency through years of stagnation. It's just a case of reviewing things to find better practices and cut out waste and expensive contractors!

Do you really think your tax dollars are contributing your fair share towards the cost of healthcare via socialized medicine?

This is the problem with economies, being as everyone sees a way they should be getting something on the cheap - despite the reality that EVERYTHING costs.

It's like this discussion I was having with a chap a while back, because he thought the dirt road he lived on (chose to live on) should be paved - because he paid taxes. I asked him who should pay for the paving, and he thought the city or the government should - like for the paving of any other roadway through town.
And I couldn't get him to wrap his head around the idea that if every road, that had one or two people living on it (like his own), was paved that the treasury would be broke in a matter of months.

Everybody wants everything, but nobody pays enough in taxes for everything to be done to their own personal liking.....:rolleyes:

Damn I despise discussing politics.

this is quite interesting on banking and finance
 

Actually kayce me and my wife pay an above the average amount of tax not that that's got anything to do with anything. How does that make me want stuff for nothing?
And as for the road example I live on a private road that we own and we pay for it and it's the nicest in the area lol
I am interested cause am sick of everytime the tv or radio are on,, all we here is cutbacks and credit crunch! Who ever has this money needs to be made accountable for this shite that good hard working people are experiencing
:mad:

Stupid Americans doing property surveys by google earth!
Stupid Greeks not paying taxes but buying crap on finance!
Why should my nan go cold for that? Tits!

Oh and kayce I've paid taxes for two decades now so how does this not entitle me to go to A&E? How is this wanting stuff for nothing ?

Actually yes we pay tax on our earnings and National insurance. Feel free to research how as a minimum 25% of our earnings (in the UK) are taken.

Cheers pro4nut I missed that bit
Kayce...... Obviously My tax pays for my health care you nob!
Oh and that's proper English pounds ( hence the thread title )not dollars, do dollars even still exist? Thought there were none left lol

So you're saying that covers everything, or that you wished it covered everything?
And, according to what I read, you're not paying 25% - people like to say they are, but they aren't.

Simple logic would suggest that if you were in fact paying your fair share in taxes, along with your fellow citizens, then there would be no wait at the hospital.
Dollars, pounds, euros, what-ever. :rolleyes:

It covers everything you tit
This isn't stupid America
Simple logic tell me that you don't know what planet you are on..... Uranus I recon

Lots don't have a job.... So can't spend money or pay taxes...so more company's fold etc

Apparently it does not you doink.
Who said anything about America?
Simple logic, and the name of this thread, tells me you haven't even figured out the correct target for your anger. :lol::lol::lol:




Call them stupid if you must, but last time I was in America I didn't have to wait 4 hours for treatment at the hospital either. :D

My god, what a blinkered view of the current situation. I'm not necessarily blaming you, much of this is due to how the press tell the story without really giving a true insight.

The so called bail out is a loan. A loan on favourable terms in which the country will benefit massively from.

What would you have proposed we do differently? Do you think we shouldn't have bailed the banks out? If we didn't, do you fully appreciate the consequences that would have caused.

Rubbish thread with no argument

I tell you what you give me a hundred pounds and i will give you a hundred dollars.

In answer to your question, if you tell me how much private health care costs vs the taxed contribution of the average salaried earner in the United Kingdom is i will reply in greater detail. Fair?

Never mind, you're already in over your head. :blush:

:thumbsup:

Well don't comment then plonkers

hmmm, cop out? :lol::lol:

This thread is rubbish
No ones biteing lol

Not at all - it's just when their grasp of basic economics leaves one feeling as if they're trying to explain quantum physics to a first grader, it's a lost cause. ;):lol:

The expert kayce
He knows best
He likes posting pics of real cars in the vega section lol

The expert Rebelrc
He knows best
He likes blaming the bankers for everything, and wouldn't know a real Vega if it bit him in the arse :thumbsup:

Of coarse I know the vega
My brother owns it and team xtreme
Oh real cars ford made one and chevy also kayce

Though, apparently, you don't know what a "real" Vega is :rolleyes: - and, like other things, those posts went right over your head too.
Well done laddie.

And you're a cross-dresser.
So what? lol

I'm not a lady lol
You have the girls name
Vega is a planet in the constellation lyra or something like that!
This is great
Your so much fun!

Whilst I don't want to delve into the details or the debate, the simple fact is some people have profited from all of this. Including amongst others senior bankers and investors that gambled away other peoples money and rather than be sacked have retired on generous golden parachutes.
In essence in bailing out the banks we have paid for these peoples cushy futures whilst screwing up our own.

Its the simplest economics of all - if you are getting poorer, where has your money gone? It doesn't simply disappear!

True si
At last someone that pays attention to what's happening!

These banks were Taking risks with our money,
It went wrong, they lost then we give them 100s of billions (win) and they do the same.
If they Invest well and earn lots of cash then great ( win)
But if they lose we give them the money anyway ( win)
Where's the ethics of that. Decent hard working people should be angry as they don't have this back up system at tescos.

Afraid your bait is not very good, and the hook is showing through so we can all see what you're doing!! :D

This is capitalism, the economic model that has won the contest of the last 100 years. Communism and co-operatives have failed, capitalism has won. In a capitalist economy, someone has to win and someone has to lose.

This all started in 1987 with Big Bang, when the much-worshipped and admired Margaret Thatcher did two things - allowed the banks to combine trading of stocks with the provision of investment banking advice and financing. Governments around the world lowered the capital requirements of banks - the amount of capital they needed to back the loans they made - so we all had ready access to loads of money and we borrowed like hell. then we couldn't pay it back, so the banks had to increase their capital reserves to cover the bad loans which meant they couldn't lend as much to us - the credit squeeze of 2007/8.

At the same time, a lot of the credit instruments they created were proved to be worthless, so banks could not pay what they owed to each other (the trading of money to make money) and to avoid collapse, Governments lent them the money they needed to meet their capital reserves. If they didn't, then they would go bust taking our savings and deposits with them.

Because we couldn't borrow money (including small business) we didn't spend as much so we entered a recession. In a recession, the Government's income goes down, so taxes have to go up to pay for the shortfall. As the Blair/Brown, and Bush Governments had been spending like crazy (us on the NHS, Education and local services, Bush on wars in Iran and Afghanistan) there was no instant alternative to cutting Government spending.

To make sure this never happens again, Governments further raised the capital reserve requirements on banks, so they are still busy raising this capital which means they have no spare cash to lend to anyone. Government tries to remedy this by pumping more money into the economy by making ever larger loans to the banks - quantative easing. We have to borrow this money, we issue more bonds, we have to pay more interest. At this rate, by 2014, almost 15% of our taxes will go to paying interest!

So, no, your money does not disappear. If you don't get a pay rise, and you can't borrow money, you can't get richer. In a recession you don't get a pay rise and your taxes go up, and in a credit squeeze you can't borrow money easily. Your money hasn't gone anywhere, it's just that you can't get enough to keep up with the rise in costs.

And just in case anyone is left with any good feelings about Margaret Thatcher, she was also the one who ran down our manufacturing industry in order to break the Unions, who decided that was not a problem because we would become a service and finance economy, and then privatised the utility companies because she said we needed more competition to drive down gas electricity and water bills!! And it was Gordon Brown who decided to tax the dividends paid into our pension funds which has led to them being decimated and us having lower pensions!

You can wind us up all you like Rebelrc, but this is what happens when you live in a capitalist economy. There's a rational explanation for it all, providing you don't believe what you read in the papers. That's all folks!!

I agree with most of your post and it is largely correct except the bit above, Thatcher didn't shut down decent, efficient manufacturing plants that produced quality products.

She closed down these plants because they were by making absolute crap and were losing a huge amount of money and costing the country a fortune.

The Callaghan government was completely beholdant to Trades Unions who throughout the 70's went on strike whenever they felt like it, affecting quality, production and profitability of these state owned (at the time) assets. If you're looking a guilty party for the demise of the UK Large scale industrials look no further than the Labour government and the Trades Unions of the 70's.

Also

Labour did it again recently with the tendering process for the contract to build 100's of trains - they set the criteria which was biased AGAINST Bombardier (a British firm) and then also made the decision legally binding, so when a German firm (Siemens) won, there was no way the new Conservative government could do anything about it.

Thanks Labour.

Yup, but to expand (a little)

Yes, the labour party/unions stuffed it up good and proper in the 70s, Thatcher then leapt so far the other way, that even those companies who did have worthwhile products they could develop and sell suffered badly. Basically throwing the baby out with the bathwater (small baby, large bath).

Most/all other European countries give large scale tax breaks to R&D spend (some make it positively beneficial to spend cash on R&D). The Thatcher governments policies pretty much made it financial suicide to invest in R&D within the UK (compared to doing it in, say, Germany). So even the non-UK based companies moved work/R&D to other countries in Europe (and now to china, india and so on) or holding companies bailed out and sold off/closed down UK based companies to minimise exposure. Those remaining borderline/potentially successful UK based, UK owned businesses ended up with little/no chance in the European/Global market. And are now mostly owned by someone else. Or gone forever.

Unfortunately, successive governments since then have proceeded to do the same. So now there isn't much left to save.
Except, on the whole, the very very top end of the high cost/technology
market, where customers really will pay thro the nose for cutting edge knowledge based stuff. F1, Aerospace, Surface treatment, Composites and so on.

Yes agreed but protectionism doesn't work, it is difficult to tailor legislation to allow "good" firms to prosper and "bad" firms to go under, especially when the "bad" outnumber the "good" by such wide margins and when we're thrown into the Common Market as it was then called.

Unfortunately when we are good we're the best in the world (F1 technology for example) when we're bad we're the worst.

Edit

And also what is hugely annoying and very important is that the part the general public played in this whole mess is totally and utterly ignored by all politicians because they are not brave enough to mention it.