Motors and warranties
 

Hi all!

not sure how many of you read other forums, but a while back i posted on the doughtyuk forum about a v2 Spashett motor i was having problems with, causing my car to overheat and go in to thermal shut down in 2/3 minutes of use!

after inspection i found a small peice of the arm on the stack was sticking out and i presumed this could be the issue. i tried a few different varients to resolve the problem.. different endbell, different can, different arm, different esc - different driver!

i had also found wear, and/or corrosion on the motor can see picture -

http://www.doughtyuk.net/mkportal/fi...lery/a_343.jpg


i sent the motor to helger to be checked over after contacting them with the issues. after about two weeks i received a package with the following note:

'missing piece of coating is of no concern, the damage to this arm has been caused by corrosion forcing the laminations apart, this is not a manufacturing fault. David has supplied a spare arm from his stock to help out though'.

now from my point of view, as stated on the note that the corrosion has caused the problem then surely this is a manufacturer failure as the protective coating on both the arm and stack has failed - as it has corroded! i can see no signs of the motor i sent being checked over as both the comm and brushes are in the same state as i left them before packing them up - worn from its last run.

i have been sent another arm to help, but i am not sure it is actually an orion arm, and it is definatly not a spashett edition.

http://www.doughtyuk.net/mkportal/fi...lery/a_353.jpg

New arm on the left, old arm which caused problems on the right

looking at the 'new' arm the comm is bigger in diameter than a regular V2, the 'grooves' are no longer in the stacks to aid cooling and this armature they have sent me is a 10x3, not the 10x2 i actually sent! there are also some indents in the coppers surface. (im not being picky here, but it is big enough to cause some loss of connectivity to the brushes).

im looking for some advice with the situation really, i feel it should of been replaced fully as the motor has failed, from my viewings the motor has not been tested and i have been given an incorrect armature and the wrong wind which i suppose was to make me feel better over the situation. I dont wish to actually run the motor due to previous runs with the motor it caused my car the thermal shut down in a very serious manner - possibly damaging most of my cars electricals :rolleyes:.

The motor its self is about 3 months old, being used most weekends on the correct reccomended gearing by losi and helger 'factory' drivers.

so the question.. what now?

In my opinion they know it is a manufacturing fault or they wouldn't have sent you jack! Complain!

1 Hard landing and motor magnets can be damaged. Whats to say this damage hasn't been caused by use?

If the motor has worked fine for 3 months then developed a fault it sounds as tho it has been damaged in use.

1 more thing to check is that the endbell is fully insulated ad not shorting out. I have seen a few people have this problem and it makes the motors run very hot and not perform well.

I think its been like this from the start hasnt it paul ? not something that just happened.

I would ring and speak nicely to Helger and try to resolve the situation.

IF you have no success, yo uare well within your rights to contact Team Orion direct.

The V2 endbells have a pronounced problem with shorting out causing heat issues. If you have continued to run it (which is a fair thing to be expected to do) then the heat WILL affect the coatings eventualy. Although it possibly IS a manufacturing fault, because it has been left a while, it has escelated.

I am sure some calm talking (don't email them, talk to them) will get the issue resolved, if not, contact Team Orion direct, and ask Helger to give you a contact number for them.

Hope that helps Paul.

I see your point about the replacement they sent not being the same, however this is a goodwill gesture and not surprisingly it si not the same as purchased. If this was a problem from new you had the right to return the product within 28 days to the place of purchase with your receipt and requested a refund or replacement. It is difficult to claim failure during normal operation as neither yourself nor the licensed repair agent could demonstrate the validity of the claim. Good luck but you are relying on goodwill not your rights as a consumer. In referance to stating that by giving you a replacement they have admitted liability, this is not true they have just issued a product as a goodwill gesture.

I deal with this everyday sorry if it sounds negative but it is best to be realisitic.

If it comes to it paul. give me the motor and I'll stick it on oscars table at the euros next month and see what he says about it. I've never had a problem with these motors myself but yours is clearly "wrong".

the motor was ok for a little while, but then started to noticeabley get hotter and hotter. i tried enduro brushes to try stop the heat, decrease the timing a little, esc punch.. different esc.. different batterys and nothing seemed to work - this is then when the thermal shut downs occured and i contacted helger.

i think i agree with ian, if there was nothing wrong and it was 'useable' then they would of not sent the new arm, so am i right to assume they knew there is a problem but tried to save some ££ by giving me the replacement.. which i must add i think is used as there are some noticeable indents to the comm.

i am happy that they have at least tried to help in a way but in another way they hav'nt as the arm may not be orion - therefore making the motor a hybrid, making it illegal to use at brca sanctioned events.

i think i may try contact them to hear a more detailed explanation as saying corrosion isnt a manufacturers fault is abit weak.

Jimmy, i may take you up on that offer if nothing is solved! thanks do0d.

I think what Pro4nut says is right. Being aggressive gets nowhere, whereas being calm may get them on your side to some extent.

But I reckon Jimmy's offer of letting Oscar see it may get the best results. Oscar is a great guy and really does bend over backwards for any customer - team driver or not.

Chris

Definately sounds like the endbell has got a short in it, hence why it is getting hot.

i had also tried another endbell from another v2 motor i had, which also thermalled. i had tried another motor can too to be sure.

When you do that Jimmy, give him the spoon also and ask him if he likes it. Take picture of reaction.

Could get him to "tune the spoon"

should have some good laughs at the euros with the spoon, they just WONT understand at all..

motors
 

i got given a team scream mod by a friend who runs a hobby shop.it was a 12x1 and on its first run it dropped a magnet.i glued it back in and it ran fine,trouble is, in 2 5 minute races it was wearing the brushes down to about 4mm long.and chewed the comm out bad.i tried softer springs and softer brushes and it helped a little bit.from new the comm was out of round, that was part of the drama, but the team screams are sposed to be diamond trued etc etc.i was really dissapointed.motor was in a b4 and speedy is a novak hammer pro.


on that note, has any one tried the checkpoint mods?

There is a chance that you have a 'rogue' motor, as these are built on Mass, so the chances of some 'sub standard' motors slipping through is to be expected.

Firstly looking at the replacement arm, it does look like an Orion/Peak arm to me. It's hard to tell from the comm end only!!

It's a tough call really. Personally i think i'd just run it and be happy, but it's your call.

If i was looking at the origional, and was an importer, i'd probably note that it looks to have had a fair bit of running - looking at Comm diameter - again hard to tell from a pic!! The other big question that i would be asking, is how did it get rusty?? usually caused by water being where it shouldn't be..........

The cause of many motor failures is that they have got too hot. If they get too hot and do some damage, they may well still "run" just not properly. I know in touring cars it can be an issue: get motor too hot and they go out of balance. When running out of balence, epoxy putty often comes off which leaves them more out of balence. If still run, the wire will probably ultimately snap and smash into the maget and create a large mess/paper weight!!!!

The motors with the groove in them are especially hard to gear, and 10 turns even more so due to the arm blank that they are wound on.

http://www.doughtyuk.net/mkportal/fi...lery/a_354.jpg

Picture of the rear..

the comm diameter has shrunk quite alot due to the lathe work whilst it was getting hot and trying to find the problem which is when i gave up!

the rust? your guess is as good as mine - i look after all of my motors and skim/clean often just to keep them in good condition so i really do have no idea.

i will try the arm.. but i am still warey about if it is an orion arm. as they ussually come stamped? this however dosent.

Still looks like an Orion arm to me........

There are many of us on here who have tried Checkpoints, many who still are using them, so fire away with any checkpoint related questions and someone will answer.

Paul,
You may or may not know, I maintain all of Pritchards motors for him, he uses Orion and Peak V2's. Many, if not all of his arms have lost the green coating, some do look to have gained a little rust and some have become really shiney which is bizarre.

Also, at the Euro's Oscar replaced an armature for him, this armature looks exactly like the new one you have - i.e. it is green, clean looking and very neatly wound with only a stamp for the wind. It was a 13turn, so he doesn;t use it often.

Chris

just had a peak vantage that i have open and the armature looks very similar, only difference i can see it the color of the plastic center is black insteaad of white.. doesnt have the grooves in the segments

The various blanks are done to give the motors various types of characteristics. The original Spashett one would be a high revver as it has mass removed from the outer section of the blank, the replacement will have more torque.

The spashetts do rev about 6k higher than standard v2's, maybe the arms just can't cope with the extra heat and velocity? My Spashett 10x2 gets noticeably hotter than my standard 9x2.

checkpoint
 

i am looking at running a checkpoint in my b4 and t2.most probably the 10x2.our track is pretty grippy clay and traction isnt a problem.

are thay as good as the magazines etc make out?

Quite a few people seem to run them and say good things about them. I haven't tried one myself but they are a similar idea / design to the orion motors, and I really like those.

The Spashett I got had what looked like rust on the armature and looked the same as yours Paul. Although mine works fine (I ran it in the 4wd at Oswestry), so I wouldnt worry too much about the corrosion.

After borrowing a 10x2 Checkpoint from Mr Latham at Batley on Wednesday I can safely say I'll be replacing my Steenari V2's with Checkpoints as they wear out. Not quite as much torque low down as the V2, similar mid-range and OMG it explodes in the higher rev's :o I was having trouble keeping the front end on the ground at the end of the straight at the end of the race!

How fast was my B4 Carl even with those old cells?! :o :D

thanks mate,you just made my mind up,it will definitely be checkpoints going into my cars.i think one will find its way into my stampede as well.

are the team tekin g11 pro worthy?at the moment my b4 still has an old novak hammer pro and i think its time for an upgrade.most of the people where i race run the Quantam 2 or the GTX but i was looking at trying something different.

I run one, and so does Dan Greenwood, they are ace, but the advice from the boss is that if you are running low wind mods and you are getting heat issue's to run a power cap, otherwise they are a self contained unit. Easy to setup and ubber smooth.

Power cap and a couple of the schkotty diodes is the advice from Tekin.

Tekins have regen' brakes, but with latest cell technology and motor power, they can't cope, so the Schkotty stop the back EMF and dissable the regen'.

Chris, the Schotky is for them crazy TC folks who insist on running 6x1, you can get away without a cap in 2wd mod and no diodes, and it realy depends on how hot you run your motors in 4wd as to whether you need a cap, Dan would be best to answer that one I think.

Teken and Checkpoint
 

I have a tekin G10 pro (a bit different I know) and am currently running an 11x2 checkpoint motor. Even with older 3300 cells, the speed difference between the checkpoint and some of my other motors (which are mostly orion mods or touring) is unbelievable. As a relatively inexperienced racer, the car has gone from being nice and controllable to a stupidly fast animal!! Maybe I should put the slower motors back in...

No faults at all with the esc overheating and I run it straight from the box

checkpoint
 

the only checkpoints my local hobby shop had ( www.herchobbies.com.au ) were 9x1 so i grabbed one anyway.i can always back my speedy off if its too much.should be fun but.:) .
they dont stock the g11 pro so i might have to get one of them from tower hobbies.(im in australia by the way :) )

well i just put the motor in my B4 and holy geez man.im runnin the standard spur and tried an 18 tooth pinion and its totally insane,power all the way through until my eyeballs cant keep up.i love it.

definitely going to have to refine my trigger finger.i have only been using the nomadio sensor for about 6 months(left handed too :) ),i have always used a stick.getting used to the wheel but.

new speedy
 

i went out and bought a tekin g11 pro.i havnt tried it yet,asim not sure if i should get the tekin cap or not.
are the GM speedys any good?and where can you get them online.i really cant find anything on them in australia.

i put the G11 in my RC10T2 but for some rason i cant get brakes.
ive set it up like it says but theres nothing.forward goes awesome,so much more punch and a lot smoother than my old novak.
i have posted the problem on the nomadio forums and the tekin forums with a few ideas but so far nothing has worked.
i just thought i might ask here, maybe someone else has had this problem?
from what ive been told so far is the nomadio and similar 2.4 gig radios send signals too fast or something along those lines.

edit: i installed an old Am radio to see if the problem was the speedy and i think it might be,there are still no brakes.unless i followed the instructions wrong,but they are pretty simple.