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Let's sort out the driving standards (Ideas)
Had an idea!! There are 7 marshals on track, 2 standing next to each other right. Well why not have a random driver picked at the start of the meeting (say number 3) there job that night is to stand on the stage and check for driving standards,lapped cars, missed cars that have cashed ect.
Also I think there's a lot of confusion over what we are doing are we racing or Qualifiying? If we are racing I think a grid starts like finals night would be good (after all P1 did out qualify P2 from the previous week why should P2 be on the front row) If we are Qualifying then as is is ok but more effort is needed to let faster cars through even if there on the same lap. |
I agree in some of the heats things looked a little heated!
Maybe a swear box would be a good idea?! Lol we could earn quote alot of money out of this I reckon! Anyway, can the lap counting system call the results out and call for when a car is about to be lapped? I know this worked well at Maritime when I raced touring cars. All it would need is a speaker on the stage and numbers on the cars. Or a referee on the stage? But some heats don't have enough Marshall so could be tricky? |
A Ref is a great idea however there are 2 issues with this i see.
Experiance A ref must be an experianced racer and able to differentiate between a deliberate colision and a accidental one and only a large amount of experiance can do this + Also i good understanding of BBK timing and how it reads is also needed as otherwise you could call out someone to be lapped when there actually not. The timing system would also need to be on the stage as the ref needs to be able to see the timing screens to do an effective job. Maratime uses a different timing system as far as i am aware the BBK software does not allow automated calling of lapping cars. Having refereed a national A final personally one thing i would say is its easier to say it than actually do it Gareth |
To clear things up we are racing, but our final position (best of 2 rounds) qualifies us for our heat the following week.
Although it is a similar concept to heats and finals, rolling on over from week to week, it is not the same. Track obviously changes and so does the people who turn up from week to week. As for driving standards, the lower heats are populated by individuals with lower skill levels, and the speed of the 13.5t boosted motors makes it difficult for lower skilled drivers to get round the track cleanly. period. There are however individuals with a high degree of skill, who normally populate the A, who have no excuse in allowing their car to hit another drivers car.... Sadly they do not care about lower skilled club drivers, and will gladly punt the the hell out of the less skilled under the banner of 'lapping' if they have a bad week and are knocked down a heat or two. I wonder what message this is sending out..... but not a positive one I’m guessing. There is 'winning' at any cost and there is having a 'good race' with somebody. Sadly too many people are putting too much into the former and not enough into the latter. My opinion is that as a club we should have respect for each other, and not get pissed off and harpoon somebody else. The evening should revolve around taking part and having a good time, and enjoyment, after all there is only ever one winner.... And normally that’s the same person. I do understand this is not everybody’s cup of tea.... oh well Weekend racing with heats and finals and a big commitment in time is where there may be the need for referees I guess this is where i stand anyhow. Cheers Ollie |
Totally agree with the experience statement but this is only club racing so for the lower heats having a less experience ref he or she would naturally miss things but then wouldn't it be a good learning curve and to be honest we all miss things.
Think the racer ref giving out stop/go ect would be a bit unfair. I remember years ago 10sec penaultys being used havn't seen or heard of one being issued yet since I've been back (I may be wrong?) Is the lack of respect for other racers a Buggy thing? Find it strange that's all! |
Ps just like to add, I saw some superb close racing last night, stuy and edd round 1. Me and Scott had a great battle.
Fair play to James keeping Stuy behind him for so long in rd3 (I no it didn't end well) but credit where credits due |
If you were to line everones car up on the stage, there is not one person who could not name the owner of every single car.
And its bull that you don't know where you are in the race. Ok maybee for the fist couple of laps, but you know when your being lapped for the umptenth time. And we all know the fast drivers ocasionally end up in a lower heat, the other 6 drivers know full well they will be 2 / 3 laps down but still try and race wheel to wheel taking both cars out. SIMPLY KNOW YOU LIMIT!!! let em through and try to follow. |
While you are entitled to your opinion James, personally I only know maybe 10% of the cars by sight.
Also it is not that easy for me to know when I’m being lapped, I'm concentrating on my own race. I may have an idea, but sometimes we can all get this wrong, especially when another driver has no respect for the ropes, and thinks they should not pay the price of their mistakes. Granted I will know if a car passes me more than once... More importantly, I do know when a car is chasing me down. It is easy to determine that another driver is faster. I just tend to pull over and let them through, regardless of whether they are lapping..... Faster drivers should have far more respect in lower heats, after all they are the guests in that heat when they have not performed to their full potential the previous week...... Sometimes they need to be more careful when taking their medicine..... |
Yes shame the lap scoring system cant do the back marker thing?
Getting someone to referee the rounds will be pain for someone to do as all of us want to race and wrench on our cars inbetween heats. I agree about the lower heats having some smashing and bashing as they are learning etc but from heat 4 upwards things should be more sensible. If a faster car is coming through, let them go and get a tow from them, youll both get a faster time in the long run than tapping and causing a crash. People should also be more aware when re joining the track after a crash as this can often cause another one where waiting a second or two to see if the track is clear would keep things cleaner. Maybe a chat from one of the committe members at the start of the next meeting to clean it up and they will be watching to make sure things are fair and clean, if a deliberate hit is seen + 10 sec on your FTD, im sure that could help.......... |
i have been coming to the forcc racing now for nearly twenty years, in that time i have seen faces come and go but the main changes i have seen have been in the last couple of years.
we used to have brushed motors and batterys that could only just last five minutes, now what have we got, unlimited power and speed that could out do most brushed motors, with a 10-12 second lap that takes some control and when there are seven other cars in the race? what do we want? refs? i have been to races at international level with ed and thrust me we do not want that because once we begin with stop and goes etc it is very offical and still there are people upset, but if we do want that, i would put myself forward to ref some of the races and see what comes forward. the club still has alot going for it and as racers we know when things go wrong but please think that there are alot of kids there, would you like somebody swearing at your own kids? you all know when somebody is faster than you, must times you are racing the clock(the best way to go faster is let the fast guy through and then follow his lines) these are just my views and i will do all i can to help the club but as all the top racers say enjoy your racing its only toy cars!!! les kerry |
Competition is competition!
we all want to win we all try 100 % at what ever level. this will always bring out the worst in all trying to hard, tempers, pushing the rules. if you want all fun remove the computer and bash!:confused: talking of computer maybe put it back on the stage. As Les has stated he will ref i will add my name to that list any one else? just remember as Alan stated if you start something it needs to be carried on for everyone every week, every race. |
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I'm happy to help keep a watchfull eye on a few races.
I agree the level of competition is moving on with alot of good drivers at the club ( look how we all did at Off road wars ) so maybe we need a few tweaks to make the evening more enjoyable for all levels. |
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spot on neil totaly agree no computer problem solved. we race to win and do the best of our ability and a driver who says otherwise is lying. good call neil:thumbsup: |
The club is ace on all levels eg halls great/ tracks are good / website is great/etc etc.
We just need a clear refresher on the rules of racing. No calling etc cause this causes extra work for already busy people Can we have a rules sign put up each week next to the heat listing maybe? all rules must be in favour of the faster car... Cause that's racing.... And that's what we are supposed to be doing for all those that forgot that! Saying something like club rules for those partisipating in the race When being lapped ( not position ) you move over for the car lapping , safely off the racing line for them to pass. When marshalling do not run out infront of ANY cars ( for your own safety and the sake of other racers ) nor do you replace cars on a different part of the track. Where they get stranded is where they go back No fixing cars trackside whilst marshalling.... Pass it to someone else When tangling with another car you wait for them to recover ( how everlong it takes) Silence on the rostrum..... Eliminating any confusion.... And respecting your fellow racers race!:confused: Etc etc that's the start of the idea |
I respectfully disagree with you Neil on this one.
I believe there is room for individuals to turn up, race, do the best they can, enjoy themselves, have a damn good race with somebody and go home with a grin on their face.... Competitive fun... I understand that some individuals take the results more seriously than others, as you yourself should know...... And i don't believe for one second you are suggesting that everybody who does not take it as seriously as yourself should sling their hook, but thats how it comes across to me anyway. |
I just want faversham to stay the same cause it's great but just would like a fair crack of the whip
I personally don't like the ref idea I spoke with Alan on the phone just now putting the idea of printing and laminating the racing etiquette rules of the club. Then pinning them up with the heats each week. You see my little disagreement with Jon came about cause he thinks lapping has a different rule than I do. So if we set them in stone and make them clear and accessible we are all then singing from the same hymn sheet Which has got to be better for everyone! The rules seem a little blurred at the moment If the rules are there plain as day then I would like to think people would then stick to them cause then if not it would be clear for the world to see they are a cheat /idiot/ don't want you in my race, so no need for refs and all that arguing that would come with that What do you think? |
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At the moment we race on the night to get a ranking to qualify us for a particular heat the following week. That is where we draw the line. The track changes and the drivers change the following week. The track the following week may not suit your style quite so much as a couple of others in your heat... so there is differences... but that’s not really the problem.... If a driver qualifies in first position in any heat, he will get the advantage all night. If he wins, is it because of his starting position or is it on his driving standard on the night? It makes more sense to me to do as we currently do, which gives everybody a shot up front... Indeed it also ads a little challenge to the top qualifier in a heat, because one of the heats he has to move through the pack, mixes things up a bit.... I would have thought it would have made sense to you, because the alternative would be for Ed to walk it every single time because he would have had the advantage... boring.... i guess its a club thing, as opposed to a racer thing.... Not that i care overly at the moment, since i have no job and have got other things on my mind... But one possibility could be to have a staggered start but alternate the order, for instance the first race could be 123456789 then 456789123 and then 789123456... maybe just for the top heat, who dont seem to be able to be good sportsmen into the first corner.... would not need more than our current three lines either... 1 in front, 2 on the line and three behind... you get the picture... |
Hi Scott,
I like your idea, the only problem is that people can and do loose track of their position, you only need the odd crash or other upset in the race... So you have the individual who believes he is lapping, calling out... and the person being lapped, who may not even know the individual or the car of that person calling out... Most of the time people get the idea, but it is not infallible... which i think is what you need for a rule... At the end of the day it is based on good will, if you ask an individual to move over and they don't, for whatever reason, i would suggest that it would be better to hang back and wait for an opportunity. I do know that this can get a little frustrating, because i do it, if i cause an accident it is because i have made a mistake.... 9 times out of 10 they will move over anyway. One way to really upset anybody is to come up to them and at the first available chance, drive over them... or tbone them... because they have not moved over the millisecond they get near you. (not having a dig at you here scott, but there are drivers in the club that have done it to me and that i would lay money down that they would do it to me again in an instant... being that i am a 'club' driver...) if people do this, they should expect that the next time the come round to lap (and i'm not saying it is correct here either) for it to be a little harder ....... its just human nature... thats why respect is the best policy all round... |
Not my intention to come across that way Ollie all im trying to say is that what ever you are doing sport,video games etc as soon as competition takes affect people change.
Eveyone is there for one reason to RACE there are loads of fields, loads of car parks but we choose to race at Forcc as a organised club,with rules with a set format, and at the moment maybe the rules have either got to be re- enphasised or change to match the new level of competition and speed within the club/hall. All these comments from everyone proves to me that we all care and enjoy racing at Forcc but want to bring it foward and in no way is any bad bits aimed at any committe/volunteer if they are then they perhaps need to speak direct to that person. maybe a one week meeting behind Boughton hall closed doors and not this forum would be a good idea, have a vent off over a cup of tea and a slice of cake:thumbsup:. |
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Hi olly
I think you have missed my point some what Yes the car being lapped should move instantly out of the way costing the quicker car no loss of time at all... That's racing... That's what this club is for ,isn't it.? If you can't tell who is lapping you then move over for all the cars as that's your fault you can't tell, not my night ruined cause you are not on the ball If you can't tell then you should ask to be in the bottom heat ( when I say YOU I don't mean litteraly you olly just an example) My rules idea is to clarify race rules! not enforced! Just if you disobey them you look very silly I have no feeling in my throttle thumb but I don't expect everyone that races me to tourniquet their thumb lol Simple rules of racing kept plain and simple As for people that only go for a bash ..... Ideally don't do it in Any ones race that is there to race .. If you do then take the consequences cause our race stuff costs £££££££&££ and we are sick of you breaking it and smirking off It's a race club yes? Then race not tit about If you want to break your car bring it to me and I will stamp on it for you lol but stop bouncing it off us racers Oh and olly none of us racers want to hit back markers we want to hit nothing! That's the point None of this aimed directly at anyone .... But if the cap fits then change it lol Cheers |
P.S I don't think ref ing is the way to go
I think it will start rows and he didn't give him a penalty cause he is borrowing his stuff etc I can just hear me saying it now lol Clear sensible rules is the way to go in the favour of the faster car allways! New clean rules new clean start ready for the winter series One of the best rules to make us all better drivers is to wait if you collide with someone, as long as it takes .... You will soon learn the hard way to pass cleanly. Slowing down the marshalling so they are safe and not going to ruin other peoples runs by standing/ kicking etc other cars is a must. That will make you drive more consistently lol with a silent rostrum so no shouting Marshall .... Oh dear on a rant now...... When you shout Mmmmaaaaarrrrrssssshhhhhhaaaaalllllll!!!! Every fappin Marshall looks at them and not the track so then we have more gobing off etc Come on guys this is just common sense and respect for others! |
On the post you did quoted below
Did you mean if they drive over you you will then hold them up deliberately next lap? Cause if so this is exatly the behavior we don't want for a good night and you shouldn't be racing I did a tit for tat retaliation this week and was slagged off massively and put down by Hog so we have fallen out big time! Quote:
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here is a link to week 1 results have a look
http://www.forcc.co.uk/ go to results/week1/heat results/overal heat qualifying. lets recap what we currently do we have 3 races best two of three to produce the heat listings for next weeks grid slots which is fine now if we look closley at the finishing positions its clear. we all agree the driving standard is pretty shocking why is this? if we look at the fastest times from each driver we can see it varies for example alan moon 36 place 20 laps he is 3 to 4 laps faster than the drivers around him in this list ei his next weeks heat so he would be lapping a single car that is 4 laps slower over a run every 5th lap if he had 4 cars in his heat 4 laps slower he would be lapping 4 cars every 5th lap but those 4 car will more likey be on there on piece of track so poor alan would be trying to pass a slower less experienced driver every other corner from lap 5 to lap 20 he would need do 16 overtakes per car(backmarkers) within his 20 laps that is bairing in mind every body in the heat doesn't crash. now these are not exact figure but im hopping you see the problem what is the resalution if the format was FTQ the next weeks grid line up would be a true fastest to slowest list yes there will still be a couple of odds for example tom bates who finished 47th which is out of sorts but from what i can see on this particular example he is the only one. why do we run round by round? stu |
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There were a lot of heated tempers last night for whatever reason. Simply best to chalk it up to experience and move forward using it as a springboard to better things. We all have enough crap in our lives. Wednesday night should be a little piece of sanctuary from all that..... |
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Our point entirely !
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Well Dave unfortunately I have beef with you!
But that beef will have to stew cause I am having a year or two off Rc Hence why the last 2 weeks I have wanted a fair run Good luck with face 2 |
FTQ, much easier to understand, and like myself with 2 runs with a broke car and a second overall, puts me in the C. Tough luck some would say, but it has been pointed out this now gives me and the other 6 regular C drivers a frustrating night, me losing time trying to pass, and them losing time allowing me to pass.
FTD would have finished me 3rd I believe. |
I know that last post comes across as a rather selfish view, but my bad luck will implicate on 6 other drivers.
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which is acatly what happend to me last week and what will happen to ed next week which is ridiculas
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FTQ! Great idea.
And clarity of what we are all doing there! Racing or socialising? For me it racing first priority Then the Socialising second |
And funnerly enough that's what happen to me a few weeks back. Oil on track which wrecked the race meeting, broke my car, sod that!!!! Ended up in heat 2 :woot:
FTQ ALL THE WAY!! with proper grid starts EASY |
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How about banning reverse?? this causes some problems for all heats.
Its banned at BRCA events |
As the club is run at the moment; heat wise not committee..
If you have had a bad evening ie. car not good enough through pace, tyres or setup or you've crashed and your car is broken and you don't have the resources to repair, either through lack of skill or parts etc. You didn't manage to do the standard amount of laps, that you believe you could have done, or for what ever other reason, all three heats have been a complete fail and you've dropped down into a lower heat for the following week then that is YOUR fault!! Learn to drive, learn to overtake, even if you are lapping or learn how to prepare your car better!!! The following week arrives and you find yourself in the D and not the A, as happened to two drivers last week. Seeing as you are a better driver than the others, in that lowly heat, show us your skill!! Get to the front, lap everybody three maybe four times, challenge for the most laps in an evening but don't expect to get called through all the time just so you can go flat out and try and record the same amount of laps as those in the top heat. Have a little respect for the others in that lower heat who have actually done well the week before and also deserve to race.. maybe they're not as skilled as you and therefore can't pre-empt that you'll be trying to force your way down the inside on the fastest part of the track or undercut them over the jump. This is racing and this is racing for everybody not just the ones with the most money, best cars and most experience. I for one know that I can't always get out the way quick enough so normally try and let someone through when it is safe to do so and probably earlier rather than later so I don't ruin both of our race. I'm improving, (I think lol), and am trying to be a more courteous driver as I have watched people like Will Johnson, Michael Vincent and Will Mount and like the way they drive and respect their actions on track. I am also afraid of getting in someones way that IS quicker than me and therefore spend most of my time sizing up the competion in my heat and seeing who I am likely to come up against so that I am prepared to let them through when needed. This doesn't seem to happen with some other drivers however and they seem blinkered in their own little world as soon as they're on the rostrum. This needs to be addressed! I apologise for my 'appalling' language at the end of the first round of the fourth heat this week as Luke (a junior) WAS pitting behind where I was stood. This was an outburst on my part for being taken out yet again by a more experienced driver and I apologise to Luke for that! However being fronted up to by a red faced committee member throwing his weight around on the stage wasn't called for and if anything raised the tension level.. why was he there? he certainly wasn't calling through or making sure the driving was of a certain standard!! I look forward to next week where I will be mainly moving out of the way so that everybody else in my heat may pass... predicted heat; Pole: Scott Dickenson, 2nd:Richard Baker 3rd: Ed Kerry, 4th: Scott Dixon 5th: Michael Vincent, 6th: Chris Procter 7th:Gordon Nicholson.. Dicko (the other Scott).. |
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I was on stage to observe - if I had seen anything that needed calling then I would have. As it was your incident was in the closing lap(s) of the race and was right in front of the stage and I didn't see the incident for which I apologise. You say I wasn't observing driving standards and then have a go at me for pulling you up for swearing on stage? Isn't the whole way you conduct yourself while racing the point of observing? By the way - the name's Dave. |
Lets try and get this thread back on track, ideas to improve things!
The club is fun/relaxed and lets try and keep it that way and make a few little changes to progress forward as a club. Last Wed was a bit of a unusual night ( must have been something in the air! lol ) If you have a problem have a face to face chat over a cuppa, not good for new members to read all this on a public forum. Or you could always settle your problems with a dance off next club night! :woot: |
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