Project Team Kassanova TR3 (TC3 truggy)56k warning
 

First let me introduce my self since I am new here and apologize for the exetremly long post. My name is Ethan. I live in Colorado.I am 15 years old been the hobby for 3 years. For about 2 years I have been designing and working on this project the Team Kassanova TR3.Formerly known as the Team Associated TR3 ( Because of copyright and a recent sponsor with Team Kasanova, I changed the name) Some of you may have seen this project on other forums but I figued heck why not put it on here too.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/...20TR3/TR36.jpg

There is the bj4 , tc3"0" ,and a couple of other people have made tc3 buggys .I like the 4wd buggys mainly the body and the fact that it is 4wd. I don't like their low ground clearance which is not the best for bashing or racing on blown out 1/8th tracks.I want the ground clearance of a stadium truck and the stability , but the traction ,ease of driving, and the looks of a 4wd buggy. There is nothing on the market today like it so I decided to make one.As far as specs go..

Width:13"
Wheelbase:11 1/2"
Tires:Truck 2.2

But in my eyes a really truggy deserves a buggy body so to top it of I will put a xxx-4 body on it,but that may change....I have finished version one and have started version two.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/...20TR3/TR33.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/...3/IMG_4053.jpg
The picture above shows the version one currently it has the following:
Custom Lexan upper and lower deck chassis
Custom Lexan front a-arms
Custom Lexan Front/Rear Shock towers
Custom Motor mount
t3 rear a-arms
t3 turnbuckles
t3 shocks
t3 servo saver
t3 cvds
masher 2k2's on t3 rear wheels
ntc3 diffs
tc3 drive shaft
xxx-4 body
hpi rs4 mt c-hubs and hub carriers
t3 rear a-arm mounts
tc3 "0" slipper


Though version one works ok, I decided to crank it up a notch.Version two will include the following upgrades:
-Custom G10 Chassis
-Inboard shocks
-All new custom a-arms and mounts most likely hingepinless design
-New tires
So Far I have made the
-Cut/mounted Upper and lower chassis
-Mounted Diffs
-Make Chassis Stand offs
-Make motor mount
-Make new a-arm mounts
-Drill holes
-Battery strap system and slots and standoffs.
-Make Rocker mounts
-Make shock mounts
Here are some pics
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/tr3chas3.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Tr3a-arms.jpg
The rockers and shocks are a bit higher then I would have liked but I had to have room under to put turnbuckles in the rear and upper arm on the front. This is what it turned out like...its not perfect becuase like I have said before I am no CNC ...also I haven't sanded or put finishing touches on everything. Also right now I have just a bunch of mock up screws in it and haven't started countersinking anything.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/...TR3/TR3016.jpg
Rear
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/...TR3/TR3011.jpg
Front
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/...TR3/TR3012.jpg
Side
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/...TR3/TR3022.jpg

To be contiued...
Ethan
Team Kassanova

My first design for the new suspension is the one below. I the a-arms in the pictures are this design. Though this design most likely will not be used niether will the a-arms.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/.../grill0132.jpg
The current problem with it is that I don't have a drill press or mill. So its very hard to make straight accurate holes for the hinge pins through 5 layers of lexan so that they match all up. Also I have always hated bent hinge pins and e-clips. I could have come up with a way to eliminate the e-clips like on the T4/B4. Instead I just decided to get rid of the hinge pins all at once. The design I have come up with uses no hinge pins. Instead it uses Pivot Balls. This reduces resitence and friction. Also this set up will always me to make sure that the a-arms mount up nicely with out having to worry about hinge pins binding and holes not matching up. This is a picture of the rough design that I decided to draw up. It is ofcourse a rough drawing but it should be able to give you an idea of what I am thinking...
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Pinless.jpg

Soon I will be cutting a motor cooling hole in the chassis and also finishing the motor mount and getting that mounted. Also I will probaly start sanding everything. In a few days I will be ordering the nitro tc3 hub carriers and pivot balls off of ebay. If ofcourse I win the auction. Until those come I can't really do anything else. Once they come though I will be able to figue out the suspension and figue out what I need to complete the suspension. I am pretty set on the hing-pinless design unless it proves to be weak or undo-able.I am also trying to decide between lexan or delrin for the new a-arms. My old version 2's will no longer be used, unfortunatly.

You may ask why I am going with the laydown type of suspension. When I was making the rocker mounts I was asking myself the same question. But there are advantages.
1. Lower Center of Gravity
2. Less bent shock shafts
3. In my opinion more durable
4. Progressive suspension
5. Its unique
The following picture should give you and idea of the most noticable advantage ; the lower center of gravity. The lexan shock tower is from my version one and is showen at about the same height as it was mounted on the last version
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/...TR3/TR3023.jpg
I was bored so I decided to draw a full chassis picture of the TR3 using Microsoft Paint(Its not the most accurate but its about the best I can do with paint). This will give you'll a rough idea of what it will look like in the end.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/.../TR3tires2.jpg I Also figued for the heck of it I would put some mock up arms on it and just lay the arms on to get and idea of what it will look like..
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/...TR3/TR3031.jpg

Oh yea for version two I have a secret surprise. Here are the hints i have given so far.
Clue 1: I like it inside out,not outside in
Clue 2 : I lurk in the lens

If you would like to view my building process and my updates over the last year . you can visit my website at www.freewebs.com/eds24/
If you would like to view more pics you can go here http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/...%20TR3/?start=0. Please let me know what you think. I would be glad to hear comments and suggestions. I will keep you guys updated on any progess.

Ethan
Team Kassanova

Thats quite awesome :D

Would love to see it in action, what sort of motor system will be going in this?

looks insanely awesome!!.. hurry up and finish it!!! :p

keep us updated!

tom

Josh: Thanks! When its complete I will get a video up.Well right now I just have 19t reedy motor. But I am going to try a 9t orion v2. See how that works. Also looking at the traxxas 12t becuase of its torque. Eventually though I want to put a mamba 5700 in it though

Tom: Thank you. I am trying! lol Yea I definatly will.

Ye i thought a mamba would be the best bet in this creation, on 3s lipo aswell :D After using a mamba i could see it being very good in it, even on 6 cells, very very torquey throughout the whole of the rev range so perfect for this application.

also... make me one and let me have it for free ;)

Ye :D i'll swap ya my mamba system for a prototype :D

haha Sorry guys its pretty exspensive to make a prototype. But hey once I finish it up I am going to be looking for someone to run it for a few weeks give me feedback stuff liek that.

would love to se this run, maybe even have a go :D

haha me too will try some sort of modification to car oneday aswell :)

how about chop your boring car into tiny bits scamp?:D:p

Actually now that ive sold my X6 im going back to a B4 :p

Copy cat!:o

:D

Now that is a cool conversion, I love the inboard shocks

the rear shocks need some preload spacers

:o:o oh no mike its the end of the world lol

it is the skys falling :o:rolleyes:

wot? Anyways back on subject. I think it looks really good. It must take a lot to design and build a conversion kit from a touring car. Is their a class for 1/10 truggys????

lil ben

not that i know of :wtf:

You boys are aware that Ethan lives in Colorado?

Michael: Thank you
Mike: I agree with you they do need preload spacers. In alittle I am actually thinking about switching to some touring car shocks if I can find for some for free. Set-up makes the suspension very soft even with hard springs.
Ben: Thank you. No there is currently no class for these though I can still race it at the local tracks. I think these cars should become a class becuase it would be the perfect class. 4wd with ST stability

Haha yes I do live in colorado. Seems like most of you guys live "across the pond"

A small up date today I worked more on the 8 piece rollcage. I will tell you guys more about that when its finished. I also took it apart and cut a motor hole and did some sanding on the chassis.

Ethan
TeamKassanova.com

what shock oil have you used? If the setup is too soft then experiment with higher weight oils and this should solve your too soft setup problem, i would think touring car shocks wouldn't have enough travel :wtf:

I'm gonna guess you will need the same fix the Revo guys use. Sway bars.

Mike: I haven't really seriously exsperimented with anything yet. I can jsut tell its really soft with stiff springs. Preload spacers and oil may fix it. I think the touring car shocks should have about the right amount of travel with the set up there really isn't much shock compression.

Annie: I sure hope I don't have to use sway bars.

We'll talk about it. Just bring it up next time we talk.

The shocks and rockers look too big to me compared to the travel you want. You can either put TC shocks on with really small hole pistons and very hard springs, or buggy front length shocks with smaller rockers :)

I suggested X10 or X11 rockers. Remember?

Richard: Hmmm yea people have been telling me this. Well I will be keeping it with the T3 shocks and see how they work once I get everything built if I have to I will get some touring car shocks. I am not really interested in buying smaller rockers though.

Yes I remeber.

As far as updates... I put some bids on ebay for ntc3 front/rear hub carriers, pivot balls,and some blue wheel nuts. The auction only came with one set of hub carriers and pivot balls but I needed an extra set of pivot balls for the inside mounts so I just bought another package with hub carriers so I will have extra's. These parts should be in by Saturday and then I can start designing the a-arms. Still trying to figue out a material to use. Delrin looks to be a bit exspensive at $40 for 12"x12" so I was thinking about getting some 3/8" lexan instead but I am still trying to decide. I also may have the a-arms cnc'ed by a friend instead of hand cutting them. Thats another decision I have to make. Peace Ethan

i would recommend some xray touring car shocks or some tamiya trf shocks... as these (if i remeber correctly) are the longest touring car shocks.

other than that i think the project looks very good ethan... just a quick question... how much has all this work cost you?

i wouldnt mind doing it myself.


thanks jordan

Jordan:Once I get it built and drive it I will be able to see if forsure I need touring car shocks. Shocks aren't cheap so I will probaly have to go with the best deal I can find. I am hoping that I can find some Aluminum threaded tc3 shocks. That way I can put some "rally" shock shafts on them if I need the extra length.

As far as cost well becuase I have had trial and error I have spent more then I would have too. My guess though is if you where to find good deals on parts like I did you could probaly build something like this for $200 or soo. Not sure though. Might be alittle bit more. The worst parts are like the diffs,shocks,and Cvds.


The ntc3 parts came in today and WOW i am not used to working with such beefy parts. I think I will have a hard time breaking these. They look like they will work better than exspected. As I was taking them apart I figued out another thing about the pivot ball supspension you can use it as a VLA or variable length .Like the technology used on the losi trucks/buggies. You can basically tune the length of the a-arms by screwing or unscrewing the pivot balls with out changing width. By putting spacers in the axles it keeps the same width. This also helps me becuase I can turn two pivot balls on each hub and it makes it so that the hub is brought close to the center making it so that the cvd is pushed farther into the outdrive so that I can have maximum clearance for bashing and then when i want to race I can make it so that I can go back to the max width with level a-arms, by unscrewing the pivot balls. I will be designing the a-arms over the weekend and hopefully buying some material soon if the money is there.

I don't even hear this much about the TR3. Post it on our forum too.

When do you think you will have it all together and running again?

That is a cool looking car.:)

How long will it be till the project is fully finished? Also how long have you been working on this?

Annie: I will be putting up a thread soon.
Legend: Thanks.
Mike: Well.... Right now I am at the point where I just need to make some a-arm mounts and a-arms. Along with finishing up alot of little stuff. It depends on if I can scravenge enough money up for the delrin or lexan. I am hoping by mid feb. At the latest. Could be sooner or later. No gurantee's :) But it depends on what you consider being finished. This V2 proto will be finished then but I do plan on making another car, which would be basically the same car except having all the handmade parts be cut from a cnc and a few improvments. It would be more of a production car cough cough. Ummm as far as how long I have been working on it. I started getting ideas and parts for the project about two years ago. Officaly the project started on 7.30.06 or a few weeks before that.

Brilliant Idea.
this could become a new classe of Racing.
this is the same way 1/8 truggys came about.
Keep up the good work and keep us up to date with the rpogetion of the Kit.

Thanks! Yes I would hope that would become a new class. Recently I have been hearing alot of requests for a 4wd St. I know HPI tried it awhile ago but it wasn't popular. Now days with lip and Brushless 4wd ST's would/will be monsters on the track with the added traction. It also is a good bashing vehicle. 4wd buggies have too low of ground clearance and break too easily. I think this truck/truggy is going to be the perfect blend for racing and bashing.
Ethan

Bad news... I sent the lower chassis and some pivot ball parts and a few drawings to a friend of mine so that he could make me some aluminum pivot ball a-arm mounts. He got the chassis and parts yesterday and tells me that the chassis broke in shipping. With no insurance I can't get any money from the post office but The chassis broke in the same area around where the spur gear is and where the rear of the chassis hooks on. I figue that if the chassis in a padded envelope couldn't handle USPS then it probaly couldn't handle brushless power and 10 ft jumps. Though I had a aluminum brace to go on the chassis in the works. Now I have to make a new chassis or have one machined by the company machinist. I don't have anymore g10 so the first decision is what material to use?
1.G10
or
2. Alloy
The second thing I have to worry about is fixing the design to add material to the back. I am not sure a aluminum brace would make it strong enough. Also with the pivot ball mount design I can't cut the chassis any different to make that area stronger. So I came up with a few ideas...
1. Put 3/16" spacers under the rear diff case so that I don't have to have a spur gear hole.
Advantages: Easy,cheap,light, still keep pivot ballsupsension
Disadvantages: Raises CG and also increases the angle that the cvds slope down to the hubs which would increase cvd plunge and decrease ground clearance
2. Scrap the inner pivot ball "hingepinless" idea and go with a much more simple set up such as something similar to the tc4,t4,b4 hinge pin design just on the chassis but keep the pivot ball hubs.
Advantages: Simple, Cheap,Lowers cg,strong, can be used with t4/gt2 a-arms when useing tc3 rear hubs and tc3 front hubs.
Disadvanteges: Calls for shorter a-arm,less clearance,more traditional and not innovative, more friction.
3. Modifiy the slipper clutch, add dogbones, move to a mid motor mounted set up such as a b44 or bj4 WE. Use either the pivot ball or t4 suspension.
Advantages: More balanced,Can lower the diff cases to lower Cg and decrease cvd plunge, can make it longer by using long dog bones, no spur gear hole on the rear, can use either type of suspension.
Disadvantages: Saddle packs, most exspensive, have to redesign top/bottom chassis.

The last thing is if I should get the chassis cnc'ed or hand make it. I sorta wanted this version to be a prototype which most of the parts where hand made by me. But if I have to buy a whole nother sheet of g10 or a alloy sheet it seems smart that I would just have it cnc'ed. Especially since I am tired of g10 affecting my lungs and the cncing would be close to free.
I am having a hard time making these decisions , I am naturally a bad decision maker... so all the help would be appreciated. I am pretty sure I don't want to do option one though.

Thanks Ethan
Team Kassanova

I do know one thing. The USPS is HARSH on every package. My mom works there now and she usually does my packages so they are ready to ship. I am about to ship the TK2 to Chewie and I will have to get that thing packaged good. I would have told you that just a bubble-wrap envelope wouldn't work.

What thickness was that G10?

yea I should have put insurance on it. I figue though if it can't stand USPS then it couldn't handle a hard crash.

And it was 3mm g10