Rip off kyosho
 

Dont get me wrong I love my laser but........kyosho rip you off infact they pull down your trousers and ram it right up... But why???
A pair of big bore springs kyoshos price around £15 compared to a pair of big bore springs for a Schumacher around £5 ....why??
I don't really see a great difference in quality!!

Kyosho shock tower mount a little bit of plastic but you have to buy a huge tree of crap that most off it you won't use cost around £10 why?
Associated don't shaft you with a huge pile of crap most parts are available on their own if not you get a small tree of bits at a decent price..why???

Buds

Bud I know your a fan of the cars, as is 99% of those who have driven them!

Firstly there is the exchange rate issues with Japan and as Kyosho use Japanesse suppliers your paying for a premium quality product rather than something of lesser quality knocked out on the cheap in a less quality concious economy.
It's the same as paying the extra for a SONY or Panasonic TV compared to a cheapy Tesco special.

Springs, now whilst I agree that £14 a pair is significantly more than most springs I can not agree with what you say about quality. I am currently putting together a big bore spring chart using a £50k spring tester I have access to at work.
The X-gear / Kyosho springs are amazingly good quality with the spring-to-spring and test-to-test (meaning position in the fixture as I rotate and invert between runs) is brilliant and the other manufactures you mention springs are (politically correct wording) less so to the point I'm taking mine out of my spares box.

If your looking for good quality big bore springs at a good price then I can recomend the Losi springs. spring-to-spring and test-to-test although not as good as the X-gear springs are prefectly acceptable (I use them myself on my own cars sometimes) and about £3.30 a pair from JE Spares.

Shock tower mounts are a slightly different tale as yes you do have to by the whole transmission case tree but I can honestly say that I never broke the revised strengthened FS plastic mounts in any crash that was mild enough to not damage something else at the front of the car (I'm talking about the sort of thing that would have seen a XX4 go home in a hoover bag)

The aluminium tower mounts are available and totally solve that issue (remember they are 1.25mm lower so need spacing up) and you can increase the length of the screws holding the transcase together to about 18-20mm (depending on amount of under tower spacers you use) which makes the front end bullet proof when used with the LA216B front tower.

As I always say to people, spares prices are only an issue if you break a lot of stuff. I'd rather drive strong reliable cars with slightly higher spares prices like the Kyoshos where I might have to replace 1 part a couple of times a year (if that ... so far I haven't put a part on the FS2) than a car with cheaper spares that needs stuff every other meeting.

Stick with the cars mate, remember the quote, "there is high quality, fast supply of updates/improvement and cheap prices ... pick 2 as you can't have all 3"

Here is a simple answer.......... Because they can!

Hi Roger, any idea when your spring rate comparison will be completed?

I haven't really noticed any increase in price due to exchange rate Roger as price havent changed much in the last couple of years I'm expecting the higher prices coming soon!!

No offense Roger but I think you are blinded by love:wub

Bud

The Kyosho springs are better than all of them hence why the very best drivers driving other makes than Kyosho use the Kyosho springs on their shock absorbers.
They are extremely progressive and quality.
I am not sure if that is a good reason for the price of course but I know that one has to pay for the best as in anything in life.

Surely you woudn't expect a Zonda to be the same price as a Metro - at the end of the day they both get you from A to B - LOL

Strange that Kyosho haven't released a spring rate chart like everyone else and the end user has to do the work :confused:

The only reason we would Rip people off is if we was greedy and had a product that everyone used and needed.

We are neither, we are importing from a country which is expensive to do but also selling premium quality.

I admit some stuff is bloody expensive like the big bore shock springs but thats due to kyosho using best possible spring supplier.

I cant afford to run them :(

It does not mean they are not good though! If you are on a tight budget then dont use them.

The Sprue for the shock mount has a few parts its true and as always you find there is one piece you only really want.

Its not planned this way. When you make an Injection Tool you want it to make a reasonable size sprue. As the costs of the tool runs into tens of thousands its not easy to change.

To be fair this is not unique to Kyosho.

I have also to be honest and say i never broken that piece in 2 years i been running the car.

Few shock towers, hubs during normal use. Thats pretty cheap to me over 2 seasons.

The question is do you want to be travelling hundreds of miles to race and having failures or do you want a car that is strong and reliable the only issue being some few pounds on sprues you dont entirely need or Big Bore springs that are too expensive for many club racers?

I think compared to the spares you would use from some other brands for you will fnd you get a lot more for your Bucks.

I often beat faster guys than me for one reason i finish :)

I didnt say you were ripping people off, I said you charged that much because you can:p

Durango do this too with the shock Eyes on the bottom of the shaft. They come on a sprue with every ball cup you have on the car for turn buckles and ARB mounts. At least you get a lot of spares lol...

i think its because there trying to get money back after the earthquake lol

Don't get me wrong neil I can go 5 or 6 meetings with out breaking a thing then bang shock tower mount goes it's the £10 I got to pay to get a part that really should cost £2 or at least should come with the tower I've got about 6 front gear boxes now :thumbdown:

I think I might put the ally mounts back on but then I'll do a shock tower every other meeting so economics of it is the same

How does kyosho Europe justify the cost of brg100 ???

Kyosho stands for maximum profit!!!

Why should it 'only' cost £2?. It's £10 like it or lump it.

You seem to like a good arguement so I'll play along with the game on this.....

Are you seriously telling me you brought a car to race week in week out without checking how much the spares or parts were???? Seriously?, really? Oh my.....

You buy an Audi or BMW you will pay for parts because they are quality. You buy a Kia or Fiat and the parts are cheap. You do the math.

Perhaps you need to buy a Losi or Madrat?

Neil

Sprue
 

Each different parts tree seems to have one part that breaks regular ie front bulk head tree + rear front and back bumper sets why not just sell a pack with a front and back bumper in that's it???? Why make me pay for a load of crap that I dont want????
As for the laser being tough have you been on some strong medication this morning?? The car has a good drive train that keeps it going but if you hit something it falls to pieces like a cut and shut.
Why do you think all these after Market strengthers are available ie chassis brace ally shock mounts???? To mention a few

Buds

Neil, are you saying that Losi and the Madrat are of the same quality???
Im sure the Losi boys will be happy reading this???:woot:

You fool.
The part I want off the huge tree is not even worth £2 I was being kind and trying not to offend

As for the BMW Audi comment I've had both top of the range in each untill the chavs got hold of them I now have a Volvo :thumbsup:

I ain't no spotty faced student !!

Not really David, was just the first two names that came into my head TBH :lol: I think they did becuase the kits are cheaper than say the Kyosho, that's all ;)

I'm not shy when it comes to spending money I just don't like being ripped off
I want to be loyal to my chosen brand but just wish kyosho was loyal back!!!

As for losi I feel for the lads who bought them with the diff issues that's why I've bought ceramic balls to help them out I'm all heart really!!

i had an issue with a part but it wasnt kyosho,

although i cant understand why kyosho america wont ship to the uk,
*******

i had an issue with lrp driveshafts for the shark that only have a 2mm shaft that breaks as soon as you hit somethin and at between £30 and £40 a pair it works out cheaper to buy a second hand car for £50 with 4 driveshafts on it,

even though you can dismantle the driveshafts like the diffs you cant buy just the end bit with the 2mm threaded shaft, wheras on the diffs you can buy everything seperate......

do lrp know this is a part that breaks easily and make you pay through the nose for them instead of having to pay half the price for only the parts you need.....*******

bud, if you are having strength issues with the ZX5 please send me a PM explaining the issues and I am sure that I can tell you how to solve that for next to zero cost.

The cars are amazingly good to drive and very very strong. I've had my fair share of big crashes since running them (I do sometimes get a bit carried away) but I rarely break anything at all.

The LA216B front shock tower is a huge improvement in strength, not heard of a broken one yet.
If you do as I suggest with the front end build it will be massively strong, trust me.

There is a slight issue with the front uprights, no more than any other car with plastic uprights to be fair but if I break anything it is those. I asked Shin why there was no aluminium replacements and no aluminium rearward front hinge pin brace and he told me "wouldn't you rather break something quick and easy to change than something like a chassis" .... good point I thought!

As for why you can't buy individual parts it's as Neil said, Kyosho have to have more than one part in each mould tool to make it viable and if they then bagged them individually they would end up with a lot of bits they had 1000s of they would never sell .... they would then have to put the price up of parts they did sell to cover the costs of the ones they didn't.

I am running on a VERY tight budget and that is part of the reason I prefer the Kyosho cars .... super cheap to run as they don't wear out and rarely break in my experience.

I broke one at Eastrax on Sunday - and this is with the reversed screws etc. Do I get an award? :woot:

Wasn't even a big roll either...

I've not run the car a lot or had any really big offs but managed to get through 2 x Front shock towers (inc 1 LA216B), 1 x Rear shock tower, 1 x Chassis and 1 x Rear Wishbone :cry:

How does kyosho Europe justify the cost of brg100 ???

Kyosho stands for maximum profit!!![/QUOTE] LOL


So just to let you know firstly we sell Kits at next to no profit. this is because they would be too Expensive if we made normal mark up.
So if you think we are making maximum profit im sorry but we are not.

Bearings are available in a big range of qualities and prices. Again kyosho only use the best.
I am sure you could shop around and get top quailty bearings cheaper but you would need to get some quantity.
There is a chart for bearings i used to use when ordering in my engineering days. I am sure Roger could help out here :)

Its up to you if you want to use some cheap bearings there are places you can use like http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/. You will Save yourself some money, just make sure to change them regular as they will wear and dont expect them to be as free running.

I think its important that anyone Running Kyosho understands its not the cheapest but it will rarely dissapoint you. Its like women :thumbsup:

LOL


So just to let you know firstly we sell Kits at next to no profit. this is because they would be too Expensive if we made normal mark up.
So if you think we are making maximum profit im sorry but we are not.

Bearings are available in a big range of qualities and prices. Again kyosho only use the best.
I am sure you could shop around and get top quailty bearings cheaper but you would need to get some quantity.
There is a chart for bearings i used to use when ordering in my engineering days. I am sure Roger could help out here :)

Its up to you if you want to use some cheap bearings there are places you can use like http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/. You will Save yourself some money, just make sure to change them regular as they will wear and dont expect them to be as free running.

I think its important that anyone Running Kyosho understands its not the cheapest but it will rarely dissapoint you. Its like women :thumbsup:[/QUOTE]

You haven't met my wife neil nothing cheap about her and never fails to disappoint :(

Don't get me wrong I love my laser it's quality since getting in to rc I've had every version from comp kit to sp to fs to My current fs2 the only dissapointing bit is the huge tree of crap you get when you only need 1 part as I've pointed out previouslly in this thread.

As for balls I do buy them in 500's thrusts 1000's diffs I also understand the grading of them (my cousin works for nsk) so if you need any Neil don't hesitate to ask I'll just charge you double:D their worth if you want quality you won't mind paying

Budfish LOL.

My wife is cheap and cheerful :) good value i would say :wub

As for Bearings it seems you dont need to worry!! the ones form Kyosho as i saw once are normally 1st or second in the grading chart. Your cousin can get some great prices for sure.

Again sorry about the plastic sprue thing not sure why you doing so many? maybe you put an option shock tower on and thats made the holder the weakest part??

i think the ones that rip you off are the ones that have a known problem or weak spot,then for some reason are more exspencive than bits that dont brake,

i never had an issue with the diff on the losi that needed changing,i chose to as id not broken anything on the 22 and my filtered slush fund was getting noisy:woot:........iv never had so much since getting rid of the shoemaker:thumbsup:

Toby ... wow .... more than I've done in 2 seasons, never done a ZX5 chassis! Not sure how your doing that as your a damn decent driver. Next time I see you I'll go over the car with you and we'll get it perfect in the reliability stakes.

reg .... absolutely I couldn't agree more. Kyosho always listen to the racers and if there is an improvement they release it to the public ASAP. Only issue with that is you then get the people who say "too many updates .... money making scheme" when in reality it's just a company who wants it's customers to have the best.

But back to the spares issue, I honestly don't break things and I'm hard on my cars and rarely give them maintanance as I simply don't have the time and they don't need it. When I have something go wrong it's usually something like a ball joint, bearing or screw that I knew was on it's last legs but had put off changing for months.

If I can help you bullet proof your car I will do, as I say pm me with what your breaking and how the car is built up (options etc.) and I will advise the best I can.

I was hoping kyosho put their prices up it sounds wierd i know but i think it would price some of the cheap arse fools out of the kyosho brand and send them to ansmann.Its like centre parks and butlins cos centre parks is expensive all the holiday makers are respectable,but butlins is cheap so you get loads of noisy fat pissed up fools like budfish there:thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:it ruins your holiday!!!!

I've been to centreparcs I doubt you have weasel!!!infact your definition of a holiday is a week off work and to spend the odd day in blackpool!!! I'm choked for you:blush:

dont be choked for me weasle when your definition of a holiday is to drag an owd caravan about:p

I've broke every part of my fs2 apart from diff outdrives, drive shafts, servo saver/steering rack and the ally bits!!!

Your confussing mine with woodys mine was a gem his owd!!

ill vouch for that lol,what about the time you broke 4 shock towers in 1 meeting :lol: 1 in every round:confused:

Technically Buds didn't break them, it was everyone ramming his car deliberately because it was so fragile it was bound to DNF.....


Anyway, Yokomo spares are the same. The most likely to break parts are the front shock tower, and the front gearbox housing and both come bundled with the rear equivalent. Most Yoke owner have a box of rear tower and housings!

Its down to the difference between making kits and making parts. Some companies will say just have a mold of front shock towers - nothing else, and another of rears etc. Only smaller bits come on sprues. This is great if you need to make a lot of towers, but much more difficult for making whole kits.

Budfish, if you don't like it, change cars. Otherwise, suck it up. It's the price you pay for having the car you so clearly love. It won't change!

I like Keith Bontrager's (mountain bike pioneer) design philosophy:

Strong, light, cheap - pick two.

You need to find a part that breaks less and satisfies one of the other criteria! Bear in mind if it's strong and light it won't be cheap, and if it's strong and cheap it won't be light!! :thumbsup:

(Neil, as an aside, some manufacturers will mould the whole tree, trim off the parts that don't sell, and then put them back in the grinder and re-feed them to the moulding machine. Kyosho clearly don't do that, but it is an option. HTH :) )

Your right mate I do love my laser I think I did prefer my fs to the fs2 don't know why but I was a hell of alot faster with it. The fs2 would turn up it's own arse if you wanted it's a great car untill you put it on it's roof then it breaks I think it's the angle of the shock tower being so upright it just digs in and breaks!!

lol sell it get a new car schumacher losi etc stop moaning!

Listen your from Barnsley you keep on standing in the dole queue you inbreed arsehole and stop f**king your dog Prick!!

lmfao!!!!! you penis

I'm racing the FS for half a year now and I must say the quality of the cars is really good. The build is very good (no Losi-like predrilling needed) and the durability is the main reason I like them car.

I gave 2WD a new try this year starting with the 22 as I really (used to) like the Losi cars. The 22 really let me down on quality and performance so I decided to change and choose Kyosho. Really happy with that one as well.

Must admit the prices are a bit high (in particular the big bore springs indeed ;)). I really can't imagine dealers are ripping us off as they would probably sell more cars when prices are lower. It must be the high production cost resulting in higher prices.

look just because you like doing your dog doesnt mean other people do!

your only moaning cause you dont have much money left go buy your heroin with!

p.s inbreed dont think so im not from rochdale!