New rules here . . . at last
 

Hi Guys Can some one make this a sticky Thanks

HERE AT LAST
(FOR THE PROPOSED BRCA SECTION)

2011 MARDAVE CIRCUIT CAR CONSTRUCTION RULES

CHASSIS AND COMPONENTS

GENERAL CONSTRUCTION RULES

Cars to be Mardave V12 or Caterham 7 based chassis and suspension. The car chassis plate may be drilled / cut-out to improve weight distribution / cooling, providing no sharp edges are left. No composite chassis allowed
Ball races allowed on both front and rear axles.
Either 32 or 48 dp pinion and spur gear may be used.
Mardave Differentials will be allowed.
Car suspension and wheel carriers shall remain as kit although any commercially available springs may be used.
The use of countersunk holes and screws on the underside of the chassis is recommended but not mandatory.
Body mounts may be changed or altered.
Wiper board mounting plate may be changed, altered or removed.
The motor may be fitted to either side of the pod, either directly or via a spacer/plate(to prevent heat transfer and softening of the blocks, or for weight distribution) providing that there are no alterations to the mounting blocks.(Thinning of pod to give clearance to motor wires, drilling of a hole for access to pinion grub screw and/or addition of tie bar to prevent distortion are permissible)
No external bumpers are permitted, although a firm foam internal bumper is mandatory on the front.(10mm minimum cross section)
Any make of servo, servo saver or track rod ends may be used on the cars steering system.

SUPERDAVE

As above but composite chassis allowed. Dimensions not to exceed those of the standard chassis and must be one piece, i.e. no “T” bar or link style. Wheelbase and track as V12 kit.

BODYSHELL

Any commercially available body shell manufactured specifically for the Mardave V12 in either ABS or Lexan may be used. Shells from manufacturers other than Mardave and Kamtec must be submitted to the committee for approval. Realistic representations of full size racing cars positively encouraged.

NOTE, NO 1/12 WEDGES. The shell must remain securely fixed to the car throughout the race. Windows may be cut out on ABS shells.
No supplementary aerofoils or fins shall be fitted to the body with the exception of a realistic size rear wing if desirable.
This wing must be non metallic, commercially available and securely fixed.
The body shell can be decorated to suit the individuals taste providing all coatings are of a permanent nature
The rear of the body shell should remain intact, i.e. not cut-out above the lower bumper line.

ELECTRICS
STANDARD BRUSHED

Any type, make and capacity of speed controller may be used providing it includes reverse.(MAX UK rrp £69.99)
Cars to use four cells only, cells to be sub-C sized cells only, with a nominal voltage of 1.2 volts per cell, cells to be NiCad and Nimh’s only. Battery mountings may be changed from the original.
Brushed Motors will be the Mardave G2 unit; At a National or GP, these motors will be issued to competitors at the time of booking in.(INCLUDED IN ENTRY FEE) Additional ‘control’ motors will be available during the meeting. No other motors are allowed.
Under no circumstances are fan motors, re-buildable motors, fitting of external bearings or skimming of motor commutators allowed.
Heatsinks with cooling fans are allowed.

STOCK BRUSHLESS 13.5

Only forward / reverse Brushless ESC’s with NO TURBO or BOOST or on the fly timing advance function from the following list may be used:-

Fusion: - Exceed (Sport, Race, Pro)

Castle Creations: - MambaMaxPro.

LRP:- A.I BrushlessReverse, Ai Brushless Pro Reverse, SPX Brushless Reverse, - SPX Brushless Bullet Reverse.

Nosram: - Evil Reverse, Evil Power Reverse, Matrix Brushless Reverse, Matrix Power Brushless Reverse

Novak: - GTB (GTB 4 Cell, GTB, GTB Spectrum) GTB2, Havoc 1 Cell, Havoc Sport.

Tekin:- R1(sensor less)

Other suitable ESC’s may be added from time to time

Anyone wishing to use an esc not on the above list should submit said esc to the committee for checking and inclusion into the rules
NOTE: - Please make your own checks on compatibility with regards to reverse function and 1s lipo use.
Brushless motors to have a minimum of 13.5 turns and a maximum UK rrp of £75.00
Cars to use 1s Lipo 3.7 volt batteries. In the short term, 4cell Nims 4.8 volt may be used but with a 150g weight penalty. 3cell Nims 3.6 volt may also be used without penalty. Note:- weight difference between 1s lipo and 4 cell Nimh is approx. 150g
Plastic whip aerials are allowed
Battery mountings may be changed from original.
Fitting of additional bearings to support the motor shaft are allowed.


SUPERDAVE

Any forward / reverse or forward only Brushless ESC with NO TURBO or BOOST or on the fly timing advance function may be used.
Cars with no reverse are used at drivers own risk and must have a fluorescent sticker on the roof
The Mardave G2BL system may be used.
NOTE: - Please make your own checks on compatibility with regards to reverse function and 1s lipo use.
Brushless motors other than the one in the Mardave G2BL system to be 10.5 turn minimum. Maximum UK rrp of £75.00
4 Cell nimh may be used until the end of 2011 or until the end of a series if it continues into 2012.
Plastic whip aerials are allowed.
Battery mountings may be changed from original.
Fitting of additional bearings to support the motor shaft are allowed.
Composite chassis allowed. Dimensions not to exceed those of the standard chassis and must be one piece, i.e. no “T” bar or link style. Wheelbase and track as V12 kit.

TYRES

The tyres may be changed from the original kit tires
Tires to be Min 20mm Max 26mm width and have a Max 60mm diameter. No minimum diameter for tires, but the tire must cover the wheel. Any foam tire make or compound allowed.
GENERAL SETUP

Any commercially available tyre additive may be used providing it is non toxic, odourless and any excess is removed from the surface of the tyres and tyres to be ‘Touch Dry’ prior to the start of the race.
Minimum car ride height will be no lower than 3mm, 1mm at the spur gear.
Minimum car weight is 1kg (1000g). Brushless with 4 cells Nimh is 1150g.
Commercially available comm. drops may be applied to the motor commutator PLEASE NOTE

Any car not conforming to the above rules will still be allowed to race but will NOT gain any championship points.
ANY manufactures new parts or bodyshells must be readily available to everyone at least 28 days prior to a national or GP race meeting for inclusion.

this will kill the mardaves,everybody at different speeds and nothin about lipo abuse,overcharging and heating them up to go faster ,tekin pro r1 is the best speedo there 120 plus 75 for a motor

How can G2 and 4 cell kill the mardave ? :eh?:

LiPo abuse is defo a no no same as all BRCA meetings charge at 1c :thumbsup: why would you post that ? :thumbdown:

watch this video of Nick and me

Nick is G2 4 cell and me in 13.5 brushless 1s LiPo

Tekin is the best speedo I agree . . . . . IN A TOURING CAR

Nick is car 1 i'm car 2


http://www.youtube.com/v/fI8EEjOLOBI

WHY OH WHY

Mardave is the simplest and cheeps form of racing
Why change it ????

All your doing is trying to re invent the wheel
the only difference between 13.5 and superdave is the motor basically as everyone will probually run the esc listed in the 13.5 class. superdave is what it says SUPER, use what you want (esc / Motor)


These are the rules on the mardave site
http://mardaveonline.co.uk/2010Circu...sBRCARules.pdf

4 cells and g2 is good but put it against a tekin r1 with 40 degrees advance and a short stack 13.5 motor and it wont be close,so spend £195 and win

want's me to download the link above :confused:

so if it's doing it for others here's a working link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI8EEjOLOBI

Remember these are only set till october so please turn up and vote on rules at the AGM

Steve. . .

Tekin R1 is a STOCK ESC IT HAS NO BOOST OR TIMIMG and is a sensorless ESC

From Randy Pike as I asked him. . . . http://forum.teamtekin.com/phpbb3/vi...php?f=8&t=2975

"The R1 cannot run boost or turbo since it's a sensorless controller."

Hope that helps you all before buying one :thumbsup:

One final Note:- I think the Guys did a good job try it and see then if you dont like it I hope to See as many of you at the BRCA AGM in October to put your views across and vote but untill Now thats it Guys

hes wrong ive got one,no boost or turbo but up to 40 degrees boost,dont get me wrong ,the proposals are good for people who are racing at the moment but u have to look at the bigger picture,mardaves have been around for over 20 years because there cheap.they are the basis of most clubs because of this.all thats going to happen is clubs will run there own rules and not drive the commitee forward.what about a voltage resistor that can be fitted to all cars controling the max voltage at the motor.it would bring all the classes together and stop the expensive motor and speedo,surly mtronics or mardave could sort something

See they tried to cover all the ESC and some one has it wrong ?

I think maybe in that case then the rule of no timing or boost has put a stop to the R1

Then on the other hand it says you can use it

Hmmm I think in that case the R1 will be knocked off Ill send them an e-mail

Thanks Steve thats the spirit :thumbsup:

You still missing the point tho Steve look at the video I posted above its all level and good fun as it is with the speedo's listed ( possable the R1 ) I urge all to watch the video its close racing

Gazza

agreed fella:thumbsup:

LOL OK no one likes a change . . .

So lets all go back to mud huts and horse and cart and no internet

We are humans we move onwards and forwards unless your IQ cant grasp that :thumbsup:

we dont have a problem with moving forward but end of the day its a bottom end class of racing, its good that both kids and adults can have the fun of racing on a lower budget.
if ur wanting to go for all this modern technology change class because mardave hasnt changed for the last 20 year, cheap and cheerful

Hes not sayin they are gettin rid of standard mardave is he?
he just proposing classes.
We are not sayin to people they have to go and spend on expensive speedos etc the stadard mardave class is still there.
The mardave brushed stock with G2 motors and that and the mardave 13.5 class is basically the same classes ardent has been running all winter and have had no problems... they are not run against each other and so there will be no problem with g2 motors not coping against 1s lipo 13.5 brushless mardave. (althought at the last club meet it was a standard g2 mardave that won when number were less)
Plus its only a proposal if people have a problem or need clarification then turn up in october and it sorted then.

OK bad news for Tekin R1
The R1. . . it Just Has no physical timing advance. . .

So in other words its got no on the fly timing so its ok if you run the full 40 degree then its boged down in the bends but good on the straight same as the Fusion and he says the fusion is possable 10% Better. .

all so the R1 wont take the Hotwire programe

So thats that one cleared up :thumbsup:


As per Churk the G2 and 4 cell is still running and will do so . .

We will never get rid of it unless the people who make Nihm's go and then its all lipo for every one Planes / Boats your cordless drill etc

Yeah thats what im trying to say...
Some people commenting seem to think that all the classes are gonna be raced together which they are not and also that the standard mardave will disappear which we know it wont as its still he biggest class at ardent in mardaves.

In a nut shell wat is proposed is as follows:

Class 1
Standard Mardave
- G2 Motors Only!!!
- Any speedo up to price of £70RRP
- Original mardave Parts
- Original Mardave chassis.
- Any Servo

Class 2
13.5 Stock brushless
- 1s Lipo
- 13.5 Brushless Motor Limit.
- Speedo have to be non turbo etc only one on list or ones passed by the BRCA for this class.
- Any Servo
- Original Mardave Parts.
- Original Mardave Chassis.

Class 3
Superdave
- 1s Lipo
- Any Motor and Speedo.
- Composite Chassis Allowed.


Thats what i gathered from the PROPOSED rules for october.
Just for those that seem to be getting confused.

And so we do not have too many classe's watering down the entree, Class 1 and Class 2 will race together as they are comparable speed, and Class 3 will be on their own.

Ah well, as expected we still have to use a forward / reverse speedo, after all the speeches, all the statements it still comes down to the same shit! well thanks for that! WTF do ya want with reverse! wasnt going to be mandatory! dont need one in superdave tho, but i want to run with my mates as i have been in 13.5 brushless, no turbo, no timing advance. cheap basic speedo (Speedo speed passions CIRTIX stock speedo £54)
Mardave for sale if these rules come into action, why should i have to pay out again!

RIP MARDAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the other guys were right.....

The 13.5 and the G2 will both run in the same class, as now after many months of testing and trial and error we have found that with the right kit they are on par with each other and if you take a look at the vid that Gazza made at Hinckley you will see that this is the case.
The G2 will be around for a long time yet but we thought it was time that the mardave was brought into the 20th century and moved forward with the times with lipo's and brushless motors.
It seems that he who can afford the best cells "Nimh" is more often than not at the front of the pack, and using a G2 for no more than a months racing isn't uncommon now so it just makes sense to homogenise the 2 together, no more fading motors because of heat build up and having to equalize cells every week just to be on the pace.
I could add more reasons like the cost of a decent matched pack of Nimh's and the £8 for a motor once a month ect,ect, it just made sense to combine the 2 classes, they are on par with each other and in the long run cheaper.

Also remember these are PROPOSED RULES we want to here what you guys think and if you feel strongly about it join us at the AGM in October.

We are going to be running these rules in the 5 round championships organised by RCCIRCUITCARS to be held at ARDENT please do come and join us it's going to be a great event and a possible eye opener..... :thumbsup: :woot:

Marti.

I do agree in Sheepdogs case, surely it should be the driver choice whether your mardave has reverse or not. At the end of the day if u crash its your fault and what are marshalls for? if you think you are good enough to run without reverse then you should be able to.

interesting the results of the poll i set up to see if when you started you started with new or second hand kit
http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66450
61% second hand
39% new

no as this is aimed at helping new peeps into the sport i think the figures tell a tale , i my self even though i have been racing for 10 years still buy kit second hand one for the price and two to see if its any good before i committ

i think most peeps do draw your own conclusions from the results

Motor Costs.
 

Has anybody sat and worked out how much it costs to keep replacing the G2 motor throughout a year?
Most the lads i speak to easily spent more than the cost of a brushless motor on G2 motors throughout a year, plus there no messing about.
And mainly the amount of tampering and tinkering i was hearing about at the mardave GP last year was quite frankly annoying.
Running brushless doesnt get rid of g2 standard mardave racing it just moves the sport along like in any form of racing ie getting rid of 2 stroke Bikes in moto and supercross. it will happen eventually but this is a way of integrating, and stepping forward with the sport just like touring cars and such into the inevitable future.

i went out and bought the mardave brushless system last year as i got fed up with the incosistancy of the brushed motors,
and after some teething issues was pleased with my first brushless purchase
however since it got banned from oval racing its been sat to one side.
now i find out it will be in superdave class against much higher spec cars once again so still wont be competative.
-Doh!
i like the idea of updating to brushless and lipo as am getting fed up with nimh cells as it does seems the best cells is what gives you wins and they are alot of messing around to get the best out of them.

its definetly the future but im waiting this time till the dust has set.

Under these rules you will be able to use it in the stock 13.5/stock mardave class as long as you run a 13.5 motor.
Not the superdave class.
I have a GTB and 13.5 brushless setup which i will be using in the stock 13.5/stock class.

so i could just change the motor?

i see where your coming from churk,but where is the sense in paying 90quid for a VRX or in my case the 56quid for my club kit,then spending 100 and what ever on motor and esc

[QUOTE 1=Gazza

but open your eyes there is a lot of clubs running 13.5 and LiPo they want it and we have gave it to them there is more people out there that just your self Quote]

Now that you have thrown your handbag in the corner. Yes my eyes are wide open and i have been reading all the posts about these changes. If you do not like people making comment's which is all i did, then why post things on here



the only difference between 13.5 and superdave is the motor basically as everyone will probually run the esc listed in the 13.5 class. superdave is what it says SUPER, use what you want (esc / Motor). How can super dave be super if you propose which ESc that people can use. Surely Super is any motor and any ESC with 1cell lipo.

I have seen what loads of changes to the rules did to touring cars over the years, dont let it happen to a form of racing which can introduce loads of people to RC racing. Which is MARDAVE. In my view as Churk said it should be as follows

Class 1
Standard Mardave
- G2 Motors Only!!!
- Any speedo up to price of £70RRP
- Original mardave Parts
- Original Mardave chassis.
- Any Servo

Class 2
13.5 Stock brushless
- 1s Lipo
- 13.5 Brushless Motor Limit. But no Price limit
- Speedo have to be non turbo etc only one on list or ones passed by the BRCA for this class.
- Any Servo
- Original Mardave Parts.
- Original Mardave Chassis.

Class 3
Superdave
- 1s Lipo
- Any Motor and Speedo.
- Composite Chassis Allowed.


[Quote Gazza ; Read the LINK it says Proposed . Quote]Oh and i do know that are proposed for the BRCA but i know that these are the rules that you intend to race at ardent


Im glad teamorsom96 agrees

:thumbsup:

i want to move into the 21st century with my mardave ,just don't want to be dragged there by my wallet,all we need now to race is curly orange hair red noses and long shoes because we must look like right clowns to the other sections of the brca :woot:

Some good points so we can count on you being at the AGM then :thumbsup:

Actually No Chris H gave us full support and go ahead and said it would need work. . .

I dread to think what happened when touring cars went from brushed to Brushless and cells to LiPo's did you all condem that as well

I hope you all turn up at the AGM to go over the rules in October and put you voice across there and hope fully we should have an even better set of rules :thumbsup:

there is a little problem there gazza, when the touring cars changed over, lets look, talking what 300quid for car then 200quid for esc/motor and lipo. diffrence been you would have to spend more for your gear then ya car in mardaves, it does make sense, i do see where your coming from saying you have to keep changing motors, but if u look after them right you can get 5months out 1 we have proved that at are club, but after all this, mardave is ment to be the cheapest form of racing.
are club tryed the brushless 13.5 class and only took 2-3 meeting and then they faded off.

Well at least you tried it mate. . .

As long as you can get the NiMh cells which I must admitt should be around for another year but even I'm no 100% on that.

Have you seen the Video I did its good fun and I must admitt less hassle

i have only used brushless in my old ftx blaze and yea its less work, but you shouldt change something that works fine as it is, if there doing the 3 classes they should be 3 classes not mixing the 2 into 1. it will just be like another sport we did, autograss, (full size off road oval cars) there used to be diffrent classes from standard minis to unlimted built specials (full size buggys) and in class 7 they used to run v8,v6s,then they let them run twin bike engines an then they just took over the class.no u need 20k for new car and thats surpost to be cheap.
thats where mardave will be in 5years if it keeps on the way it is( not as much as 20k) lol

again no one is saying dump your nimh powered mardave

What is being proposed is rules for making the 13.5t burshless class that i and others want to run (thats my choice as it is yours to run nimh) competative against 4 cell G2

and into the future as nimh's go out of production setting rules in place for lipo brushless thats progression for you

the manufactures are looking to the next big thing else we would we all still be sat in front of oval 21" screens and playing on megs drives

now as i see it these rules are not set in stone so in stead of all bleeting offers idea's of what YOU the racers want

at least these guys are trying dont all que up to flame em FFS people really dont like change do they !!!!!

MY 2$

we pay £10 delivered for 1/16th micro brushless motors and there balistic,£8 for 40c lipos £18 for a fully programable brushless speedo.the last national was won with the cheap motor and speedo.all people are after is cheap competitive racing not a £75 quid motor rat race.im hanging up my mardave and so is my brother,we'll leave u boys to ur suicide comittee and race micro's and recoils faster and 1/8th of the price,mardave has left the lunatics in charge of the asylum,when you modify the rules in october. you won't be polishing the tird just covering it in glitter

ok so when nimh's are no longer available what will you run

and buy all your cheap kit from the likes of china and japan who said you cant just no turbo or boost and i AINT on the committee !!!!


just a racer like you

oh and well done for suppoerting your uk based model shops !!!

well done for nobbin off your main supplier /mardave

wtf does that mean ???

english please