LiPo Ruling (split from the COBRA Regional thread)
 

spoke with bob about this the other day as he went to the brca meetings. The is talk etc over the rule of lipo sacks, but still no text to understand exactly what they want. but bob did say it seams its only the "power plant cells" that are being policed. so rx and tx packs wont come into the rule about being charged in lipo sacks. but still i haven't seen any of this in writing, so take this as hear say.

So, the only thing I've seen about lipo sacks so far...

They didn't arrive with the membership cards, so should be sent out separately soon

Id love to hear where you have all heard this "all lipos must be charged in lipo bags from Jan 1st 2011" rule..

Ive even been told that it applies to club nights with no exceptions?

Maybe ill stop going to the BRCA Exec meetings every 3 months and ill just pop down to Wales for the updates on the gossip :)

http://www.brca.org/sites/default/fi...nts%202010.pdf


This is it guys!!!!

As off the first on January all cars must be charged in a lipo bag!!!!!

All that says is that all LiPo/LiFe drive batteries must be charged in a sack at all BRCA 1/10th Offroad Nationals?......

Where does it say anything about club nights and January 1st?

That's the same part Andy referred to Steve, but those rules haven't been issued yet and they are only a 10th Off Road section rule, not a general BRCA rule.
Section rules don't have to be enforced at club level or even regionals.

I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong, but if that weren't the case then we would already have to run only motors and cells that are on the Electric Board lists.
Plus, that would mean that there is a BRCA rule saying 10th lipos have to be charged in a sack but not the micro ones!

This is why there is so much confusion over it all.

Anyway, perhaps a moderator could split this discussion out of the Cobra round topic to leave us to discuss minipins and the percentage of carpet!
We can then speculate about lipo charging in a seperate thread until the BRCA rules are issued - rather than just AGM minutes.

Edit: Damn, C0sie beat me to it!

Sorry about hijacking the thread guys, its just annoying the amount of silly scaremongering rumours you hear.

I have another Exec meeting on 11th Jan and I will make sure to try and get some clarification to stop these silly rumours once and for all.

I have to say, it's a pretty fundemental change to our routines, people in our region seem to have been quick to jump on the rumours of it all and try and second guess the rule change and implement something...but we've not had a proper definitive statement about it yet so it's no wonder we're all a bit confused by it! But maybe that's just because we haven't yet received our rule books for next year...;)

So my thought would be, people around WRCA have sort of talked about it but not explained it properly having been present at the BRCA AGM, and the BRCA haven't yet officially published the new rule (only the minutes of a meeting, which don't put it into any context)...so there is no rule change...yet!

Lets just wait until the official rules are published...anything else is surely just rumour and speculation as far as I can tell so how are we supposed to know what to do!

With something of this nature, it would be nice for the BRCA to send out a clear message so that all parties understand it!

[EDIT] :blush: beaten to it by Cris and Pete...must speed up typing! And not get distracted by work mid post, lol! :woot:

dont forget tho, its a WRCA rule to use lipo sacks. but i know there have not been any minutes issued, so clubs are not sure where they stand.

Does anyone have an email address for your Chairman?

Chris,

I'm guessing you're after the WRCA Chairman, not COBRA? Send him a PM, he's on here as Hywel (for that is his name!)

Cheers Ian :)

hi all, this lipo bag rule, does it include racing outdoors or does it just need to be used indoors as everyone is bunched together in a hall. the way i see it if i want to pit in the back of my van, then its only me that would be in danger of a faulty lipo if no lipo bag used. as im thinking of giving up on indoor racing id rather not waste my money on a lipo bag if its not needed for outdoor.

All i can say is the lipo bag rule is a good one as i know of two people who didnt use and have had major problems in seeing again as their cells exploded in their faced whilst they were in the pits. The sacks or bags are a cheap alternative considering you can loose your eyesight and skin. I use mine at club and events especially in my car.

I can sell you a sack for a fiver Ant.

It depends on how the rule is passed I believe, at the BRCA.

Pretty sure the ruling will not differentiate between indoor and outdoor...the risk is actually the same in both as far as the brca are concerned...many people pit in groups outdoors as well!

Thankfully the bags aren't too expensive anyway!

Andy, what I mean is, if it goes into the General Rules, then it would be obligatory for everyone, if it is a section rule, a club can adopt it.

Don't you love us anymore Ant?! :)

Devil's advocate anyone..?
 

I blame the current Health & Safety madness and the "blame" culture we live in...

Lipo cells must be safer than they have ever been but yet we still have archaic rulings to contend with...

I've seen first hand the damage lipo can do... but that was when lipo cells were considered black magic and curiosity was aroused... everyone knows the dangers of Lipo now, so maybe it is time to relax the bonds a little bit... :blush:

Maybe if you were the one that people would turn to with lawsuits, claims and the like you would reconsider your "relax the bonds a little bit" stance?

On a side note, as someone who races at Welsh clubs every week can someone actually tell me whats going on as of tomorrow?

The rumour I have heard is that at the WRCA AGM a rule was voted in that means that all Welsh club and regional meetings require a lipo bag (indoor and out)?

I cant find any minutes from the WRCA AGM, no up-to-date rules regarding this and no one off the WRCA Committee has yet been able to confirm, deny or clarify the situation?

Unless the rules, and specifically this "rule" are out in the public domain how are people supposed to know that (potentially) as of tomorrow there is an important rule change that we might need to adhere too?

right steve, ill have that lipo bag off you. and pete still love you all, lol. its just im a outdoor person, dont like being stuck indoors during the weekends, hence the quad:). think i will keep racing on friday nights though as im not a piss head:thumbsup:. see you all soon. oh steve keep that bag for me:thumbsup:

I'm sorry Cris, but no as I am in the same position as yourself! And until the rules are issued I will not be changing the way that Caldicot is run.

Ant, glad to hear it mate!

Thats one of many reasons why we all love you at club Pete! :)

Good point... sadly I am not one of the blame/claim leeches...

The wrca have no power to pass any sort of rule down to club level full stop. The BRCA can pass a rule to club level by virtue of the organisation overseeing our insurance, anything other than an insurance based rule can only ever be advisory.

If the BRCA make it a General Rule, then it is one of the 'golden rules' that you all must adhere to, but I even hear rumours that it may be written to only cover cells that you use to drive your car, which I can't understand, as a LiPo is a LiPo and ALL will combust if abused....

The WRCA, as I have been informed, has brought it in as a rule for 2011, which will cover ALL WRCA affiliated events, and a lipo sack knitted by nanna (yes, there are people thinking that some plumbers solder matt and some cotton thread will suffice) will not be allowed.

I just wish the Ruling would be made so the speculation can stop.

I wish the speculation would stop first and foremost as the chinese rumours are really annoying.

Ive heard all manner of different versions of "the lipo rule" being told to all manner of different people at certain clubs and it isnt healthy for so many false rumours to be flying around.

IF the BRCA ever deem it necessary to stick "the lipo rule" in the General Rules then we will all adhere to that, as BRCA members at BRCA affiliated clubs, but I havent heard that being the case so cant understand why so many different people are getting so hyped up over something that hasnt happened and quite possibly wouldnt happen?

Hehyo...its nearly midnight :)

im with cosie here as i was at the same exec meeting it was discussed atr, it was NOT discused at the main agm exec, and will not be a written brca rule, it was left to each section to decide what to do, 10th is will not be enforcing it, where as i believe off road and tc will, this IS ONLY for national meetings or brca sanctioned events under the relavent section.

to anyone wanting to imply this and use the wording " a lipo sack" is going to have to come up with some spcifications of what a lipo sack is, tesco do a good range!!

I like the "knitted by nana" idea Mark lol!

I disagree as the moment the reigns loosen bang it happens again. Whats ten pounds compared to your eyesight? Lipos are still hazzradous even though the technology is better. Its like saying seat belts on cars are no longer needed.

I thought that was Shreddies and they are clearly not going to contain a lipo fire!

so why did no one take precations when nimh were exploding and damaging eyes?

lipos fail when the user cocks up..........ie wrong charge profile

Ok as long as you trust the person next pitting next to you does,nt hit the wrong profile by mistake or have damaged equipment or batteries which he thinks can handle one more charge without going off.
We,ve seen people on here believing/thinking they can charge at up to 5c safely. They could be doing that next to you and you wont know till it goes bang.

To be fair, if I person buys a cell that is rated at 5C, then in theory, they should take it.... in reality, the only bennefit is shorted charge time, and thats it.

Someone once said on here..." The trouble with common sense is that its not common enough" Maybe our "power caps" should be in little bags/sacks cos those babys will nail you at 50 yards when they pop!:woot: Can anyone on here name a club (in wales) that has a lipo fail procedure? cos i race at all the welsh clubs and never heard the slightest whisper of what to do/how to treat one of these lipo disasters. So i guess when crammed in a tiny hall with 50 racers and god knows how many lipos its every man for himself is it?!!

My personal advice as far as LiPo failures would be as follows Dave :)

If charging in a LiPo bag make sure that you are easily (and safely) able to disconnect the LiPo (in bag) from the charger with some form of Deans plug release system.
If its safe to do so chuck the bag onto something that wont burn and cover with a bucket of sand.

If charging out of a bag, throw a bucket of sand onto it.

The only way (as far as I know, but im happy to be educated) to "put out" a LiPo fire is to cover it in sand.

If I didnt charge in a bag and my S2/B44 went up with LiPos in it id have no choice but the cover it in sand, probably on my table :(

Messy.

When you came to our regional, we had a bucket of sand at the rostrum incase of a LiPo disaster...... we didn't have any bullet proof vests for NiMH's though. The reason sand is used, is that the Lithium combusts when in contact with oxygen, hence the flame, the sand removes the oxygen to extinguish the flame. The Lithium still leaks out, but instead of hitting oxygen in a jet of gas, it weeps through the sand.

There is no metallic Lithium in a Rechargeable Lithium ion Polymer cell. It is possible to plate-out metallic Lithium but it takes some doing. In a pit side accident what you need to be most worried about is the highly flammable electrolyte. The fire fighting measures (from MSDS) for LiCo2 Panasonic Lithium Ion cells is as follows (it will be the same or similar for the Chinese polymer cells at they use the same chemical system):

FIRE-FIGHTING MEASURE ・Suitable extinguishing media: Plenty of water, carbon dioxide gas, nitrogen gas, chemical powder fire extinguishing medium and fire foam.

Specific hazards: Corrosive gas may be emitted during fire.

Specific methods of fire-fighting: When the battery burns with other combustibles simultaneously, take fire extinguishing method which correspond to the combustibles. Extinguish a fire from the windward as much
as possible.

Special protective equipment for firefighters: Respiratory protection: Respiratory equipment of a gas cylinder style or protection-against-dust mask Hand protection: Protective gloves Eye protection: Goggle or protective glasses designed to protect against liquid splashes Skin and body protection: Protective cloth.


In my view, the use of a LiPo sack is a good move forward as it will help to contain any fire and shield the user or surrounding materials. As I understand it, the LiPo Sack rule is one that must be adopted by the regions. We have added it to the rules section of our website www.brca-midwest.co.uk

well i just think people go over the top with safety, might as well be wrapped up in cotton wool. for example do you put on rubber gloves to plug something in or where a hard hat everytime you leave your house, do cars drive around in big air bubbles. basically theres danger all around you and where ever you look, at the end of the day how many peaople each year actaully get harmed by a lipo, bet its not anywhere near how many are hurt by fireworks that can be bought at your local corner shop. the day will come one day when rules and safety will end all pastimes and hobbys.