Marshalling duties
 

I had an incident during my final at Taplow last Sunday that made me want to ask this question and see what sort of debate would follow.
As a marshall what is expected of you.
The situation that happened to me.
I had made my way up to 3rd after starting 6th in the A final, second place crashed, I saw it out of the corner of my eye, I decided to go round the outside of the crashed car which would have put me in 2nd, as I went wide the marshall ran out to marshall the crashed car, whilst doing this managed to kick my car into the wall, as he was marshalling the crashed car a few more ran into the marshall, he put the 2nd place car on his wheels, then put the cars that had run into him on their wheels, then saw my car up against the wall. I was then marshalled, I lost some 6 seconds and 4 places, well race over, no chance after this.
So what takes priority when marshalling, the crashed car or the cars coming?
If the marshall would have left the crashed car I would have been in 2nd, if he would have marshalled without getting the way I may have been secong, for sure I would have remained in third.
Should the marshall be 100% sure he does not affect any other cars race, or marshall the car that had earned the better position as fast as possible.
Let the debat begin.
I have seen a wide and varied level of marshalls at many different races. I think this is an interesting topic.
I was a bit disappointed with what happened to me in my final, but after that's racing,or is it???

This is an excellent debate DC and one im sure a situation many racers have found themselves in.

Personally i think the marshal should have waited untill all the cars including yours had gone through, and then recovered the rolled car when it was clear. I dont think its acceptable for the marshal to kick your car whether it be accidental or not, but he should have certainly recovered your car before any of the other cars behind you.

What a can of worms !!! :p

But if you were the car 2 that had crashed, and the marshal let all the cars past and then got to you, and losing 6 places because the Marshal waited.... Would you be asking the same question ??

Marshalling is, in my opinion, somewhat of a grey area. It shouldn't be I know. Some people say the first priority is the marshalls safety. Well, If you're in 8th off road or large scale it most defo is, but as for 1/10th off road, it's the first car that crashed, then the next one and so on.

I've been in races where the marshall is too busy watching the race to notice which one crashed first, which is frustrating to say the least.

Your dude should have been paying attention. Simple as that, nothing can be done, so I'm afraid it goes down to a racing incident:thumbdown:

I agree, but to be fair the the marshal, he didn't even know he had kicked it, haha. And to make it even worse, he apologised to the guys he marshalled first, after the race, and didnt even look at me hahahaha

As a marshal its easy to get over excited... I used to!! My new approach( after being abused numerous times!!) is..you crash.. your fault! I wont get in anyones way or for that matter, put your car down in front of someone elses car! Thats my opinion, however i always move as quick as i can ( unlike some people who really cant be arsed and who usually shout the loudest when they are racing!) As for your experience DC, i really sympathise and feel your dissapointment.

Second place shouldn't have crashed :lol:

Most likely not be asking the same question, but I have seen this sort of thing happen before, and it happening tome has given me the platform to post the question on here, and hopefully raise the awareness to the impact marshalling has on our racing lives. I hope this debate will improve all of our marshalling!!!

Cheers dood!!!
I had a great day racing at Taplow and 2nd would have been wonderful, but this little incident did not dampen my days racing at all!!! Sh1t happens eh!!!

Marshalling can be difficult at times depending on the marshalling positions etc but in my opinion you never run out in front of another car.:confused:
If you can safely get to the 1st car in time ( without interfering with any other car ) then ok-but generally a clue'd in marshall should be sensible about it.
After all-as a racer they would be pretty annoyed like you DC if it happened to them.

No argument or debate in my mind Dave - the priority of a marshall must be with the cars still racing just like popping on ball joints etc.

My pet hate is if a car crashes and you have no where to go but to go into it and the marshall picks up the crashed car and puts it in front of you - man oh man do I see red with that LOL !!

IMO the marshall should be 100% sure he does not affect any other cars race.

In the example you gave the marshall not paying attention to the other cars could have gotten himself an injury as a result of them hitting him.

As long as the marshall is poised to rescue the crashed car as soon as is safe then I don't think you can ask for any more.

I will be the advocate,

say the marshal thought he could get to the crashed car without affecting another's race?
What then?

And what's the best way to get a "marshalling standards" type of attitude across?
At drivers briefing??? A show and tell video??? Tell your mates???

This is a good debate!!!!

Marshal cars as you wished to marshal, but you must be aware of what is happening to be effective, if you are standing there with your finger up your nose, chatting to your mate etc, your not being effective.

As for the order they are marshalled, that's a difficult one, if you drive into a crashed car, are you any more deserving to be marshalled first? If you hit a marshal cause they haven't paid attention to what is happening and run in front of your car, yes you should be marshalled first.

In the end, nobody is a 'trained' marshal, so can't be treated as such, and in the end, safety first!

Pretty much my view and club standard marshalling can vary massively.

However the distinguishing aspect is lazy Vs accidental incidents. That's what pisses me off.

The marshall should get to the car if it is safe for him to do so, And not get hit (this is formost in your mind with rallyx:D) If you hit him or errm he ran into you, realy he should not have been there as he should have waited and was well within his right to do so untill all cars had passed.

Now how many times in a big final has a marshall be hailed a hero for some die hard marshelling to one of the front runners, yet if he had got it wrong, slipped over been hit be the cars in 2nd 3rd and 4th thus letting the other places through and costing a top boy some points, more than lightly he would have been informed he was an ahole by most of the racers and there followers.

So in the case at the start of the thred the car should have sat on it's lid untill you had passed, as he made the mistake in the first place and would have to wait.

but this said, if you are on the mashall point what would you have done? split second decision that we all get wrong now and again...you must do at your age Mr church:lol:

mmmm!!!
I think if the marshall feels he is going to make it and with all good intentions fails to make it then we will have to kill him afterwards LOL

I think if the marshall is just stupid then, well, what can I say the first part would have to be true !!!!

It's common sence surely Dave - is it not???

Its a conspiracy Dave - they're all out to get you :p:p

I reckon good skills to the marshall - after all, he managed to accurately kick your car out of the ball park - and the way you drive matey, that's no mean feat - :woot::woot:

In all serious now - it's impossible to say whether or not he was paying attention without actually being there. What is more feasible is that he made an initial misjudgement - which fortunately didn't end up in an injury - and then compounded it at your unfortunate cost.
In an ideal world, the marshal will make accurate split second judgements, not endanger themselves and not impede others but just as in racing (assuming the marshall was concentrating), he has to make a split second judgement call and in this instance, it went horribly wrong for you.

Obviously, the more feasible explanation is that he just didn't like your shell dude :p

You would hope that was the case, but some don't pay attention, I have no idea how you would enforce it or 'publicise' it....

At club we often have a hard job just getting people out to marshall, let alone getting them to be effective once they are there!
Once you find the answer please don't forget to share!!

Yes it's common sense Tony,But even I, the Dc, have got it wrong, thanks Dwarf for pointing this out!!!
But let's try and educate people to get it right more often!!!

And GOD has spoken!!! That's Gnarley old dog!!!
Thanks Andy, that's made me smile!!!

I think the best that can come from this is......wait for it...... better marshalling!!!! Job done:thumbsup:

Haha I've driven in a national B final, and had more pressure marshelling the start of the A:lol:

You need to sharpen you reflexes dave, Most would have avoided his foot:p

Now as not the most agile bloke in the world (even though I do carry it well), my marshalling skills aren't supreme.

But, I do try to keep an eye on my part of the track, and I always try to avoid oncoming cars, got to look before leaping.

I've recently realised that often you can pause too long, often a step or two and you're on the otherside of the path of the car that's on the way. It takes practise to realise how far away a car needs to be before you know you can't set off.

I love the idea of a show and tell. You know things like how to flip a car back over - hand underneath, roll it over, but not too far, preferably all whilst in the direction you are moving in to make it nice and quick. Maybe it's something clubs could do with younger / newer drivers.

We've all seen very random marshalling, mashalling by grabbing a wheel, a wing, shock tower, or using a foot.

It's a can of worms for sure. But one thing is clear to me, the better drivers 99% of the time are better marshalls. They seem to be able to predict an incident, are often up and moving before it's even happened!

Babble babble, waffle waffle.

There is alot of pressure on marshalls to perform their duties faultlessly for fear of tonnes of abuse/swearing/dodgy looks from those on the rostrum during and after the race.

Totally agree that if you crash its your fault/keep the cars that are running as your priority but there are so many people out there who are shouting at the marshalls as soon as they can see their car is in trouble.

Well I would have missed his foot, but there was no room on the inside as the cars behind me all found out, oh and I am a rubbish driver as well, think this may have had something to do with it haha.

And lets get it done Crabby!!! A "How to marshal" video!!!!

I think I gave it a "Aw come on man" cry hehehehe

i think the safest time to marshall a crashed car is when the race is over. you think you have got time but the speed of the cars they are on you before you know it [remember the words in the song SHALL I GO OR SHALL I STAY] its the marshalls call.

If that had happened to me DC id have been narked for sure!

This is a great idea if you are behind the car when it crashes, but not so good if it's you that crashes:D

I am old now, so I was pissed off for about 3 seconds, then I abused Griff, aka Wagner for the rest of the final haha

i think as long as they are trying to be as quick and helpfull as possible we cant complain,im sure we have won or done better from an on the ball mashall that we have not even given a second thought to,i think the biggest pain it when people just stoll over,kick it with there foot or no matter which way its facing they just turn it over even if you facing the wrong way

Great, another opinion!!! Come on you lot, debate........................

When I marshall I always try to get to cars in the order they stuffed it, though it doesn't always work out that way :lol:

The only exceptions being if there's a car in a dangerous place (eg middle of the straight) or if I've taken another car out on my way to the first crash, then they get priority. Also if someone blatantly runs into the back of someone else I make sure they're away last :p

So long as people put the effort in I'm happy, some people are physically more/less agile but if they're doing their best than that's all anyone can ask really. There are one or two people I can think of who don't seem to give a stuff when marshalling (no names mentioned...), that annoy's me as usually they are the first to complain if a marshal takes a little while to get to their car...

The biggest issue I can see here is DC's example, if it is true then DC is suggesting he made an 'A' final, that can't be true so debate over.... :lol:


My views are the same as Rich Lowe, I try my hardest to keep out the way of racing cars and if there is more than one crashed car then they go back in the order they stuffed it

Jonesy....feck off!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAH:p:p:p thanks for your support on marshalling reform

Marshal should have waited, but without knowing how close you were before he stepped out, its hard to say.

In my opinion, if in doubt, wait! not just for the sake of the on coming cars, but also for your own safety.

Added: its harder if the person was "taken out" but if its there own mistake, even more reason not to rush out, its their own fault :)

Very simple answer from me.

The marshal's first responsibility is not to interfere with anyone's race.

If there is traffic coming, the marshal ABSOLUTELY should not step out into its path.

If that means he has to wait 10 seconds while the field goes past and the driver of the crashed car shouts abuse, so be it.

I try to marshal as quick and efficient as I can, as thats how i'd like other to do so.
However Marshals are there to correct a drivers mistake, if a driver makes a mistake they cant complain, if you're affected by another drivers mistake and a marshal cocks it up, then indeed that is racing.

If a marshal is trying to help, then thats great, however if theyre talking, in a day dream, on their phone then that grinds my gears and i'd be prepared to let rip then.

Top Thread :D

I always used to enjoy marshalling and I took as much pride and care with it as I did my racing. I also had a motto of marshall as if you we're racing.

Incidents do occur and a simple appology goes A LONG WAY :thumbsup:.

I'm sure we all try our best and have to understand 'shit happens'.

One could say, dont crash.....................:woot:

i agree with all the points you guys have made but i think your slightly forgetting that no one is perfect and sometimes makes mistakes, just like the car in position 2.

you can train someone for a few hours on how to marshal but it all comes down to reactions, the earlier you spot the problem the shorter the time the rc is going to be immobilized