What do you think about team C copy
 

Having brought you CAD images of the new TC02C 2wd mid motored buggy from Team C last month, today we have received the first photos of this new car. We are told the final version will feature a saddle pack configuration and come with carbon battery plate and aluminium shock absorbers and it is now expected to be released by the end of November.



What do you guys think of this very similar copy of the X-6 i think its ok for compagnies to have a mid motor car but to almos copy the original is humm lets say not to fun but thats life. :blush:

Den.

Loves is Xcar.

I dont think its a direct copy... I also dont think it will be as strong as the X6. I think the X6 is about as good as you can get, simple and strong. It will take some beating...

Even so, its a production car, the x factory team are always working hard to keep the x cars at the front and developing new ideas. Its a complement to the design and work that someone copied it, but the development of the x car in parts and design will be an advantage.

I wouldn't imagine the C car would retool a mould just for a trial part, or that the owners will appear on this forum to talk about new features or offer advice about setups etc.

There's more to X factory than just a kit. C Team would need to work hard to beat this company.

not just to pick on this situation, but why do people complain when a new car comes out, all 2wd buggies look the same with the exeption on the mid motor cars, its hard to come out with new ideas these days. Just like when the 201 came out, it looks the same with a little bit differant then the rest, I'm sure this car is no differant, but I know it take more then a fast car to grow your companie, and even if the X car was mediocre, I'm sure it would still be well known. The team c car is just another car, more compatition, whats the issue?

I am not complaining of the new C car i just wanted to now what the Xfactory society thaught of some different vergions of mid motors that resemble the X-6.

Regards and by the way i have a good friend houm is sponcerd by team C and i cant wait to see this car go.

Lover of the X.:wub

Thanks for the compliments, guys. We have seen lots of stuff come from China and elsewhere. It is what it is.

If competitors continue to copy what we do, they will always be behind.

We have been working since the start to keep it that way.

My I ask why you say 'copy what we do'? to my understanding its a mid motor version of the tq sx10/whatever team c calls it, so what is copyed in this car as aposed the sx10 vs B4? I'm in no way affiliated to tq/team c etc, don't drive one of there cars etc, I drive a mid motor losi, and am trying to figure out why so many people say company x is copying company y, to my, saying this car is copying yours is like my PSI mid motor losi is copying your car or the AC car, they are no where near the same, no even between the shock towers (chassis)

[QUOTE=rcjunky;430160]My I ask why you say 'copy what we do'? to my understanding its a mid motor version of the tq sx10/whatever team c calls it, so what is copyed in this car as aposed the sx10 vs B4? I'm in no way affiliated to tq/team c etc, don't drive one of there cars etc, I drive a mid motor losi, and am trying to figure out why so many people say company x is copying company y, to my, saying this car is copying yours is like my PSI mid motor losi is copying your car or the AC car, they are no where near the same, no even between the shock towers (chassis)[/QUOTE


My determination of copy is 80% of the car is the same if you compare the
Shumacher Cougar not in any way is it the same completele different, the thing is not the fact that its a copy its the fact that Xfactory but 100% of research and devellopement and then some compagnie copy's the car whit no imput what so ever but being that it keeps compagnies from asking rediculas prices.:eh?:

I would disagree with it being 80% the ame, but then by your definition, is my buggy a copy of the AC CR2? The way I see it, all buggies will look similar, no one will re-invent the wheel, sre you can say xfactory did, but its even harder to re-invent it twice. From what your saying, do you think xfactory copied venom's sc truck? Venom had pics of there scx-10 released (now named the gambler) and it was a mid motor sc truck, then xfactory took the name and made there own mid motor sc truck, it goes both ways in this industry...just needed to stir things up a little:woot:

as the sc trucks are based on stadium trucks xfactory had the X60 out to convert the T4 way before venom brought thiers out!

I really enjoy these "copy of ABC" threads. If your going to say 80% then virtually every 2wd is a copy of an AE B2.

The devil is in the detail, the last 5-10%.

Why not let everybody enjoy their own prefered car and relish the choice we have like no time ever before in 1/10th off road???
All the cars have their own personal merits, as a non X factory owner I can still see why the car is as popular as it is but I can also see why people would prefer some of the other cars ... in the case of Team C I guess a lot of people will be attracted to it because of the price ... X factory becuase it's proven ... etc etc etc etc

my point exactly,the team c/associated/losi/kyosho/tamiya all look 80% the same, I'll just sit back and watch the fire works

All I can say is that at least "some" companies when they release a product that "follows the lines" of another already proven design TRY to give it their own look and add their own twist and ideas to their creation. Sure the TRF201X is very much like a B4 at a glance, when you see it close, there are many subtle changes that make the Tamiya unique from the AE and vice versa, similiar with the RB5 and the Losi XXX, both similair but individual in their own way.

When it comes to the mid motor cars (X6, Cougar and CR2) they all "look" distinctly different to the eye IMHO...

THEN some companies come along and cannot be bothered to make things much different and just simply copy the mass of the car (geometry, appearance and layout) to the point that "some" parts even fit each other between the original and the copy. :o

It is obvious to see that the Team C car is "very much" like the X6 in every way visually, almost every part from the servo back looks "very" similiar in shape, design and appearance to an X6. However it is often said that copying is the best form of flattery and as Chazz has already added, if they are to copy then they will always be behind whilst new parts and ideas are being developed by the "creator" rather than the "immitator" and always behind in the availabilty etc

Add to this the fact that the materials used (as with many copies) will leave the car a little short in terms of quality and durabilty (IMHO) as is the case with many cars out there like this already....

It has been said elsewhere the customers have the choice now between the cost concious "copy" or the "real deal" with continuing development, ongoing R&D and support. Having spoken to many owners of the "other" copy cars that we have seen already in the last 18 months, many regretted their choice and got quickly fed up with poor back up, unreliability and poor quality and almost spent more on spares/replacements then they saved on the cheap kit in the first place.....

If it really was NOT a copy and people do not think it is or looks like one, then why has the thread been started in the "X-Factory" section?

I guess most can agree then, some companies, go more outside the box then others and each will have advantages, the team c is cheap, the xfactory is expensive but is very high quality and has a good team backing it, the losi is easy to drive and parts are pretty cheap, the B4 is more agressive then the losi and is common so parts are easy to get, the tamiya and kyosho have nice shocks, the list goes on, as long as your good at 1 thing, people will pick there own car, if they don't like, go to the next car in line. I our case locally, lots have the x6 as its fast, and lots switched to the B4 from the losi as they think it can be a bit faster, then some people like me stuck with the losi as they're still pretty cheap and run it mid motored so you hav the handling of the x6 with the cost of a losi (so you don't quite have the X quality) I guess we can all agree to disagree. We all have our own factors on picking cars, some want cheap, some want speed, some want quality, some want bling, some want it all in 1 box, its all a balance how far you'll sway from your desires.

As a point of contention and to set the record straight, our SC truck has been on track almost as long as the SC10. It even raced at the US Nats in 2009. I built the first proto in April of 2009 and the name was firmed up in September of 2009. Venom didn't announce their truck until 2010

Anyone know the uk cost of the 'copy' car ?

Just interested how the price compares with the proper X6 ?

Nop and this subjet was starded do get some feed back from the X guys or people that are interrested in the team please don't start the price war.

Regards and cheers rc Bro.

Den.

Lover of the X
EA B-44
Futaba 4PK

Don't understand what you mean there fella.

I run an X6, I'm no team driver and I pay full price for all my kit, from uk dealers too. I bought my Ellis edition X6 from DMS who post frequently on this forum.

I'm just interested how much the car will cost, as at the end of the day it's a big factor in deciding which cars I buy. Personally if it's a lot cheaper, I'd be very tempted.

Honestly, and nothing against XFactory here, but had the guys at XFactory chosen to make a name for themselves by copying and liberally using pieces and parts off other companies -:rolleyes: - then, maybe, they'd have every right to suggest someone else copied their car. But since every part on "their" car isn't their's, then they don't have a leg to stand on.

And as a result the whole discussion is moot.

Ironically not very mute....

If you read what I posted above I did say that if you looked at the servo back it was very similiar visually..
Since it is only from the servo forward that is mainly "B4" on teh X-Factory car visually your comment seems to carry no weight... :bored:

Oh, I've got it now - as long as they only copy HALF the car it's OK. :wtf:

And the words "moot" and "mute" are entirely different.



So how's the Guiness working for ya today? :rolleyes:

Andy, I think what he meant was, what were fellow X-Factory drivers, paying customers and the poeple behind the company etc thinking about the alleged "copy" rather than people who dont own one just adding their thoughts about the copy, its quality or if its good or bad etc. The thread has started to become a "is copying good or not" thread, rather than "what do X owners/racers etc think about this model"....

To be honest, if you have an Ellis X6 already, I doubt very much a cheap copy would appeal to you (no matter how cheap) if you are used to the higher quality parts etc.

To answer your earlier question, Team C do not have a UK distributor, their items will enter this country eventually under the Ansmann banner (a la Mad Rat etc), expect much the same.....

Looking at it, they have used the suspension off the X-pro and have remade the rear gearbox to make it mid motor and I think has taken the option of it being saddle packs and stick packs to.

Yes, it looks like an X-6, but really if you are making a moulded tub with a servo in one place and a motor in another, there is going to be some similarity.

Stupid thread IMHO.

Might need to do your home work more Rob, pay attention please ;)

They have NOT copied that end of the car - the front (that end is copied from an RB5 like their previous car - as DCM has said above)

DCM , agreed another thread that will just go in circles with mixed opinions and no real point

Then do please pay attention..............

Soooooooooooooo, like I said, "the whole discussion is moot." :bored:

Hey, I guess if we both shit brown shit.... whose copying who?

In the end, mostly, the person who is going to buy one of these new isn't going to buy an Ellis kit, they may choose to buy it over a used X6 kit though. Mostly, you get what you pay for (the key word is MOSTLY).

No No thats fine but i just don't whant the guys to stars arguing on price i just want to now what there felling is on the very close ressemblance of the two cars.

Den.;)

The front geometry is different, rear geometry, weight distribution...... so the only resemblance is visual...

Yea first they copy Kyosho(its a cheap RB5 copy) :p now X factory even down to the battery brace!
same as the 4wd its a yokomo clone!!!!(but with diffs that last one race meeting!!!)
its good to see them adopting x factorys mid motor !
but this is why i think losi and our companys dont get into making new models(off road) as all the money spent on R&D only to have a poor mans version come out and take sales away from them!!!
looks good but i think the plastics are not as good and i think changing the rear camber link will be hard!!!!
still looks good!!!

how long will it take them to bring out a BK motor brace for it!!!!:p as the plastics they use it will flex a lot!
one of our club members is a team driver so will see it i hope this weekend if he gets it ill put up some pics !!!

but on some tracks flex is good, on our dirt track I'd take my G10 mid motor PSI losi over a AC CR2 as its far less rigid and will have more weight transfer, ever car has its strenghts, some are better on high grip, others on low grip, thats why there is so much variety, the one guy with a TQ sx10 does pretty well against the X6's, it all comes down to
1. driver
2. tires
3. car
in that order.

Junky, you have the order exactly right. I'll go further:

50% driver
25% tires
25% car

That's the reason we try to make X-Cars as easy to drive as possible -- for the typical driver, a well set up easy to drive car makes him faster. And, for the typical driver, an easy to drive car is more fun at the track.

Perfect day for most guys, including me, is go to the track, car is dialed, nothing breaks all day, I do good (for me) and have a ton of fun. Go home to wife happy.

Yes Chazz, this is exactly what happened to me this season! :D I switched from a B4 to an X6 which is more suitable to my driving style...And guess what? I managed to get my first club race victories thanks to XF!

Amen!! That's what racing is all about.

Can we just let this rest? Obviously, there are only so many ways to build an RC car. The XFactory vehicles work well so they are bound to be copied at some time. What can't they copy? The great company that makes them and the family that races them. No one else has that.

Yep i think that covers pretty much everything and i think that the last post were right on the money thanks guys for your openion

Regards

Den.

Loves is X and that the car :bored:

Well when you guys get online you'll see that the TC02 into TC02C conversion kit is finally out and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they have sold all 30 kits in stock by tomorrow. I love the Team C cars the 2wd has been constantly upgraded since it came out and is now pretty much as strong or stronger than any other 2wd buggy, they are certainly made from VERY stiff carbon, the car as a whole is absolutely miles stiffer than any non factory team B4.

I love Associated cars too and have at least 5 of them and xfactory and kyosho and pretty much anything RC. But right now I'm into budget go fast. I'm not really into bashing one company or another or saying someone copied someone else because evolution is all about taking one idea and changing it slightly, sometimes it works better than the last sometimes not. Mid motored conversions have been around since the original RC10 days so everyones "'copied"" someone. But again the original Team C car when you compare it to a B4 or even the RB5 is quite different in person.

This car may or may not end up to be as good as the X6 but the standard car can be stupidly fast in the right hands and a match for the B4 (once you get a decent diff in it) so time will tell. I think everyone should be excited for all the young kids that are driving madrats at your local clubs will finally be able to get a clear body and a custom paint job and a mid motor conversion to go with it. Maybe they will love the way mid motored cars drive so much that one day when they get older and have more money they will buy a B4 and a Xfactory conversion? :) it's all good news for the hobby so everyone should peace out and relax :wub lol surely I'm making a very sensible point here:)?

Here's a picture of the kit if anyone want's to see it as it is finished, it's $55 USD retail but would be much cheaper than that through a big HK based shop.

http://www.tcmodels.net/components/c...91854231b9.jpg

LOOKS GREAT!

looks as thou u can shim up/down the gear box!!!
Mmmmmm very nice:wub

In car design, it does happen that various designers have different ideas and methods, but still all end up designing very similar products which can look like copies.
An example: there aren't many ways to mould a chassis. All (injection-)moulded chassis will always look similar. It's just the way the tooling and the process works.
Another example: there aren't many ways to attach a shock to a control arm ... .. that work.

Also, whenever someone has a great idea for a design and thinks "Why hasn't anyone ever thought of this before?", there's a 95% chance that someone HAS though of it before, and either couldn't get it to work in the real world, or it was expensive or impossible to manufacture. For every new feature that's out there, 20 other designs/ideas have seen the bottom of the waste bin.


That being said, I do think 'Team C' stands for Team CopyCat :-)

Team c is just the name for the racing division of Hobbypro, they are a big company that have been making buggys for ages. As far as I know the 10th scale division is run and drawn up by a group of guys that are into buggy racing. If I was lucky enough to have the software skill and factory to back it up like those guys do I'd be making a best of both worlds buggy too, no doubt about it.

I find it interesting the way they operate Team C because they average 2.5-3 months from the first CAD to complete buggy in the box in the shop. But they don't seem to do any testing. I guess if you follow certain design rules with 10th scale buggys it's unlikely you will make a bad one, the Tamiya 2wd is almost more B4 than a B4 itself and it works well (obviously it was going to). The Team C is quite a bit more unique than that but it did work well straight up, but what they do is use all the customers as beta testers and it's like the whole world are factory team drivers. They read oople and know what breaks, the distributors like Ansmann and TQ tell them what's breaking often and has a flaw and really within a few weeks the parts are upgraded. They don't even tell anyone the part is changed, it's just running production change.

On the original TC02 when it first come out HEAPS of parts were super lightweight in fact the whole car was miles lighter than is should have been and you have to run lots of weight in them to reach legal weight. A few parts had flaws so over the first 6 months there were changes to lot of things, the latest parts and complete kits are just really really strong, to the untrained eye the parts and buggy are exactly the same. But if you look closely most parts have had a little extra meat put in them on the stress points or made stiffer or more flexible. This kind of way they do things with super fast design and production and running fixes really impresses me. It's not for everyone and some people want a proven product right now... but I kind of have fetish for the underdog and I think most (all) of the other guys that run these cars have that same kind of atitude.

Once way back in the late 80s I read something in a motorcross magazine that I've never forgotten, It said it's not the guy in the shiny boots and branded cloths with a brand new KX250 you need to worry about at enduros, It's the guy in the surplus german army coat and the beat up looking Yamaha IT that's going to hose you. I liked that :)

I think I'll be proven right that these guys will be right at the top very quickly just going off the hugely fast rate of improvement they are going through right now and there's just endless new cars coming all the time, there's a 1/8th scale brushless racer almost done any day now. TQ racing who sell the cars in the states have already won a couple of national titles this year with the trucks which are especially fast (both the stadium and short course). I hope they can get right to the top because I want the two big sleeping giants Associated and Losi to wake up and realise there's a race going on while they slept. It's a pity the 4wd has an issue with the diff gears since that is a very fast car but I understand the gears are being worked on right now.

I just think the whole thing is great because I've lived though the days when 10th scale was MASSIVE with clubs in every small town around the developed world, then I saw it go to crap in the mid 90s I would love to see it huge again and the more people pushing and the more entry priced cars that can be upgrade into race worth cars, then the bigger it will get

[QUOTE=DCM;430305]Hey, I guess if we both shit brown shit.... whose copying who?
[QUOTE]

I would like to say that as far back as I can remember this has always been the case for me and anyone else who does this is clearly infringing on my copyright ha ha ha:p:p

Seriously though, if another company copies any product in any way then surely this is the biggest compliment that can be paid ?

Looks like a decent little kit, proof will be in the pudding, im sure theres a few on here who will buy/try and feedback