Ebay feedback system
 

It's my opinion that Ebay should change their feedback system.

The first person to complete their part of the Ebay trade is always the buyer, by making payment. Once payment has been made the buyer's part of the transaction is complete.

Sellers should leave feedback as soon as full payment is made, or leave feedback (obviously negative) if no payment is received.

It should be made impossible for the buyer to leave feedback first. Only negative feedback, in the form of an ebay report, could be left if the seller fails to deliver an item that has been paid for. This should only be possible once the mediation procedure has been used, and only then can the seller leave any feedback appropriate.

As an Ebay seller I believe that if I sell something that is shite (which I would never do) the buyer should not be put off leaving negative feedback for me by the veiled threat that I will leave negative feedback for them, as some sort of tit-for-tat reprisal.

Sellers often say they expect feedback first as some sort of signal that the item has arrived, but I actually expect that in most cases they are worried that their crappy stuff will result in negative feedback for them.

As a buyer I have not actually had any bad experience resulting from the above, I have however stopped bidding on items where the seller states they will not leave feedback untill the buyer does (in this case I suspect the item is dubious), and I have stopped giving feedback to sellers who have not left feedack for my promp payment.

All sellers should be honest enough to have confidence that their item will arrive safely and be exactly as listed, if not better.
They should therefore have the confidence to leave the buyer positive feedback promptly when payment has been made.

Anyone who understands the above must surely agree that it would be in Ebay's advantage as it would increase buyer’s confidence in their system, which is how they make their millions.

on the other hand, as a seller and buyer of ebay you wouldn't believe how petty some buyers/Sellers are, and expect even used/second hand stuff to be as new,i would never leave feedback till i get it, you may say tit for tat, but some people leave negative feedback just because they can, and love to ruin your good record, IE i sold Matty's xxxcr to a bloke in Italy,it had loads of pic,s and was described as used 8-10 months old but in OK order. he left neutral feedback because the box had been opened buy customs,hows that my fault,
so theres to sides to a coin stu

double

post

I've got that covered to some extent in my original post, at least worded from a negative feeback point, not specifically neutral feedback.

I can see exactly where you are coming from as I have had the same. It has pissed me off big time on a couple of occasions.

I still believe however it should remain the right of the buyer to leave feedback as they see fit. That is exactly how buyers have confidence in the system, for the benefit of all.

i agree to that in a certain degree, but ebay have changed the feedback a little with the star ratings, but i see a buyer leaving feedback as receiving the item. also i consider comms in my feedback, which goes on till the last feedback is submitted, so to give feedback before the transaction is complete wouldnt be right

That's not the purpose of feedback.


Leaving feedback is not part of the transaction. Feedback is a comment on the 'buying experience' only, not part of the actual purchase.

totally agree stu, i never leave feedback first if im a buyer

I agree with you Stu, I have felt like this when making purchases on e-bay. Like you say, once payment has been made my side of the deal is complete, and I'd hope the seller would recognise that. I frequently get e-mails from sellers saying 'hope you like the item, please leave positive feedback and I'll do the same for you'. It's quite frustrating and I don't respond. I'll leave positive feedback once the seller has left feedback for me. Maybe that is petty. :confused:

I leave feedback once I have received an item, and the feedback that I leave reflects the 'experience' of the purchase, from down to the price, delivery time, correct description.

I have twice used negative feedback, once to lever a seller to agree they had not sent an item, and after some very frank discussions on the phone, got my shipping costs refunded. The second was the seller just didn't send the item, left negative feedback and involved paypal and reclaimed my money.

I have been threatened with negative on the only item I have sold through eBay, where my listing explicitley said for immediate payment, and the man paid his paypal with an eCheque which would take too long, I warned him that if it didn't clear in a couple of days, payment would be cancelled, which I did, he tried to back me into a corner and threaten negative feedback, which I said go ahead, he never bothered.

As far as eBay goes, the feedback system is only there to see if the seller/buyer has had a decent record, and thats it. A seller should leave feedback once you have paid for the item, as that is your part of the deal done, a buyer should leave the feedback once they have received an item and ascertained that it is as described.

You can reply to neg feedback if you feel it is unjust!.......

I agree with stu why should a buyer be held to ransome of neg feedback when he has done the right thing and upheld and paid his side of the auction !

not saying anyone should be held to ransom, im just making the point that there are loads of t+++++rs on there, that have nothing better to do than leave bad feedback just because they can, and have no idea how feedback should work, or be used,
and i do reply to bad feedback if its unjust
still doesnt stop idiots doing it,

You are sopt on there Carl.

I once sold a Renault Clio, clearly described as spares or repair - the big ends were bummed - it went for £120.

The buyer picked it up with no insurance, tax or MOT and then tried to drive it home to Hull from Burnley, ON THE M62. He seemed a little upset that it went on fire & seized just before Halifax, up on the moors. The West Yorkshire Fuzz were not too pleased I imagine.

His threat of negative feedback was met with a 'yeah - whatever' resopnse. It never arrived, I think he was too dumb to be able to work out how to do it.

he he just my point,
it does need looking at some how buy ebay, but just what the hell they could do, i have no idea,but i still wont leave feedback till i get it even as a seller or buyer,
rant over

That makes you part of the problem...

The only solution I can see is as Stu mentioned: sellers must leave feedback before the buyer can leave feedback.

I just had an issue with the eBay feedback system. I bought a memory card for the old mans phone, was looking close to christmas so bought one listed as UK and not China/HK etc, was cheap, clicked on 'buy it now' and paid right away, so my part of the deal is done fast and no delay.

The seller negated to tell me that they were supposedly out of stock in the UK, and that it would have to come from HK. If I had a message telling me this right away, no problems really. I had to wait a week, nothing, so messaged the seller, to get a reply from the HK eBay site appologising and saying it was on it's way, nothing saying where from. When it finaly came, in a normal envelope, post marked HK, I thought, right, you pissed me about and left negative feedback.

This lead to the seller trying to give me £2 back as a 'compensation' to get me to remove the negtive feedback, which I refused to do, I didn't want the £2 but wanted the feedback left.

As a last resort, the seller then left negative feedback on my account, quoting I was a bad eBayer and poor communication. I contacted eBay who initialy wasn't interested in it, saying it is not there place to get involved unless the feedback met certain criteria, like defamotory feedbak etc.... I emailed them back telling them what a pointless system the feedbak was, if as a buyer, I pay for the item right away, but because of a misleading listing, I end up being left waiting far longer for the item, so the seller deservedly earned the negtive feedback, showing poor service.

Then I said that to then retaliate with negtive on my account was defamotory as I had done everything that I needed to do right away on winning the auction. They re-looked at it and have agreed that the negative feedback on my account was unfair AND defamotory and have agreed to remove it.

I guess you just got to know what buttons to press at eBay central.

Your assertion that the transaction is complete when the buyer has made a payment is wrong.

The transaction is only complete when the buyer has ACCEPTED the goods. That is, once they have received them and are happy with them.

Once the buyer has accepted the goods, generally indicated by a positive feedback, then I as a seller will also leave feedback.

If they do not wish to accept the goods then that is something which should resolve between ourselves outside of the feedback system.

Personally speaking I have never had a problem with the feedback system, I have 100% positive myself but have left many negatives, and never suffered from "retaliatory" feedback after doing so.

disagree there, as a buyer your part of the transaction is to buy and pay for the goods. the sellers should then leave feedback to say this....once goods received then buyer leave's his feedback...i never leave feedback first when i purchase

Sorry, i disagree with that sosidge.
For ebay purposes of feedback, the only thing that should be assessed is how promptly the buyer pays for his winning auction and any communication as part of the purchase.
If the seller has misrepresented the item and buyer wants to return it and leave negative to that effect, they should be able to without fear of the seller giving them negative for a perfectly smooth purchase.

The only reason a buyer should get negative is if the delay payment or send a bouncing cheque etc. NOT for complaining about the level of service from the seller.

obviously you never get retaliatory negatives if you only leave feedback after the buyer!!!

I hate sellers that do this. It is a veiled threat that the buyer MUST leave good feedback even if they are not happy with the purchase, or risk a retaliation.

seems like I got that can of worms out of the cupboard again.

As a buyer, my part is to promptly pay for the item from an account with funds, once I have done so, the seller should be happy with that and leave the correct feedback, I will also leave feedback once I have received the item, and depending on how the seller has been, time in posting, quality of goods etc, will be reflected in the feedback left against them.

As a seller, you must list the item acurately, be accurate in your shipping costs and reasonably with your postage times. So if I buy an item on a Tuesday, and paid for special delivery, I would expect them item on a Wednesday, latest Thursday. If the buyer tells me they only post every other day, then I accept tht, confirm the day of posting etc etc.

What has happened on my part was the correct usage of the feedback system on my part and incorrect on the sellers part.

I don't have problem with not having instant feedback as a buyer, but when the seller uses the system to leverage a buyer to withdraw the negative feedback by doing so themselves is just so wrong, and might s well not even bother with it at all.

I agree feed back should be left for the buyer once they have paid for the item and the money has arrived in the sellers account. There part of the transaction is done! I think half the time with the big seller it's blackmail....If you don't leave me good feedback I won't leave you good feedback.

How many times have you paid £5 for p&p and found the item thrown in a envalope or jiffy bag if your lucky then shoved in the 2nd class post at a cost of £1.50. BUT if you were to dare leave bad feedback !!

Consumer law, as part of more general contract law, is quite clear on this. I've put the legal terms in italics.

1. An item or service is offered for sale, the law refers to this as an invitation to treat.
2. An offer is made.
3. An acceptance of the offer is made.
4. The 'buyer' completes their part of the contract (in most cases by paying for the item) as their part of the consideration. At this point there is transfer of ownership.
5. The 'seller' must then supply the goods as their part of the consideration.

The law is clear that if the promise to supply the goods has been made by the seller then it is their duty, as part of the contract, to do so. It is not the duty of the buyer to receive the item, the seller must supply.

What all this essentially boils down to in Ebay terms is this.
The buyer 'ACCEPTS' the goods by bidding on them, not by receiving them.

All contracts, no matter what they are for, follow this basic form.

Sorry if this is a bit long winded, I've tried to make it a simple as possible.

:(My 100% feedback took a knock when I purchased an item with buy it now and paid within 5 minutes. When the item hadn't arrived after a week I contacted the seller who stated they didn't actually have the item in stock and were awaiting delivery from the states.
On subsequent contact I was given three different delivery dates and it finally arrived on the 4th date given, some weeks after I paid for it. I left negative feedback to the effect that they had sold an item they did not have in their possession and taken weeks to deliver it, guess what, yep they retaliated with negative feedback!
Anyone buying something off me will see is that I had a negative feedback with no explaination as to why as it's over 90 days old. I was aware from the sellers attitude that they probably would leave negative feedback in retaliation but I believe in being honest so went ahead and left mine anyway.:)

and by the retaliation, it makes the feedback system pointles.

it is a shame that ebay has become what it has to me. It is full of scammers and people who think they can use it to make a fortune. Freecycle has become the same too as far as I am concerned.

As you say the feedback system is pointless as it stands currently for fear or retaliatory negative feedback. i've had loads of bad experiences with ebay as both a buyer and seller and rarely use it all these days.

it is a shame really as the pillocks and idiots ruin it for the genuine users.

The learned gentleman may wish to ameliorate his clear knowledge of contract law with the additional requirements of the Sale of Goods Act.

?????:eh?:

It's one of them fancy long words wot lawyers done use.

but I still don't know what it means!!

How does the Sale of Goods act deal with sales that are not made in person, but are for items that are sold without being seen - such as Ebay.

My understanding is that the item or service is accepted from it's description, if the delivered item then differs from that, it is a breach of contract.

Is this too general?

You should take a look at the distance selling regulations within the sale of goods act. They basically give the buyer a 7-day window to change their mind about the transaction and return for a full refund.

Anyway, I don't really want to go to in depth on this. I don't agree with your feedback idea as I think it is contrary to common sense and equity within the contract, and I would rather just leave it at that.

That's you teld Stu!

TTFN for now.

G

Looks like that dunnit.

Good job I'm only an engineer, and not a lawer, I don't think I'd do very well.

So the the purchase is not fully complete until after the 7-days has elapsed?

I understand you point about the equity.

I suppose it comes down to whether or not feedback is part of the contract.

The original post was about the Ebay system in general, and when who should do what, rather than when the transaction is complete in a legal sense.

Sorry about the wording of the post above, is was meant to be general, not condescending.

Stu,

you should be a lawyer you could baffle them with bullshit and make a fortune:D

I thought that is what lawyer do............and then charge a mint


I just got a solicitors bill for 6 minutes correspondence (talking) £16.50!!!!:mad:


Back on the ebay thing, I bought a stopwatch from a uk seller with a uk paypal account ....8-9 days later it came post mark from Kwait:eh?: uk seller means nothing

UK seller means diddly, it is where they advertise that the item is.... if it says Item Location, UK, and it comes from another country, then the accuracy of the listing is poor.

Wasn't she the first woman to fly solo across the Atlantic?

No way man - you don't think I really know all that crazy stuff do ya?
No one who knows stuff like that still lives in Burnley for gods-sake.
I was surprised when it was rumbled - :o, it sounded like good shit to me.