Christmas meeting
 

OK so Scott has asked us to start discussing ideas on what we should do on the Christmas fun meet. I had suggested at the meeting last Friday that maybe an endurance race would be good fun.

I thought a bit about how we could run it. Maybe have a few teams (maybe 4 or 5 maximum) and have a relay endurance race using 1 transponder per team. Pit stops would require a car to pull in and a team member to take the transponder out of the car and into the next car. It’ll take a bit of time to do it but it could be an interesting part of the tactics to see how each team organises themselves to make the pit stops fast and smooth.

When I briefly suggested this idea to people at the last race meeting, the general thought was that they liked the idea of the team endurance race but was concerned about the touring cars and the minis being on the track at the same time. This is a very understandable issue and so I thought about some solutions. Someone (I think it was Scott) suggested that we could run 2 separate races for the TC and mardaves but I think it would be a shame to not be able to involve everyone in one race and so I thought of the suggestion that maybe we could have everyone in 1 race but restrict the type of cars which can be on track at a given time. For example, if each team contains 6 cars of 3 TC and 3 Mardaves then we could say that the first 15 minutes of the race that only touring cars can be on track, at the 15 minute mark, the track would then be mini only meaning that all teams must make a pit stop and change over to a mardave. What do you all think?

I think that there only needs to be a couple of rules with this format to be able to keep the racing fair for all in terms of track time etc.

Each member of the team must go out on track before a member can go out for a 2nd leg, similarly all members must do 2 legs before anyone goes out for their 3rd.

Teams to marshal their own team cars only.

There are a few things that we would need to decide on if we do decide to go with a team endurance race.

Do we run all class types together like my suggestion above or have 2 separate races?

How long should we run the races for? Should we have a few races? For example if we have all cars in one team should we have say a single 90 minute race or 2 45 minute races with a break in between?

How should we pick the teams? Should we allow people to pick their own teams or should we pick them out of a hat or at random? Should we base it on the results of this current championship?

Any other suggestions on what we could do?

sounds like a good idea, however, concerned about marshalling your own car, could lead to people all over the track - easier just to say each team must provide a marshall at all times

how about a safety car ?

Xmas endurance
 

Agree with Chris on the marshalling, plus say 2 cars crashed into each other, you would have 2 drivers running across the track together. Got me thinking tho, we should definately have a le-mans style start like we did that time before :thumbsup:.

How about if we just have one endurance race with the mardaves? We could have it for one hour, I reckon should get at least 10-15 mins run time from the packs we are using so we wouldn't need too many packs for one hour. I was thinking of doing a longer endurance run (say 3 hours or more) at some point so this would be a good practice run and a bit if fun at the christmas meet. Running for one hour would give us time then to have a few other silly games (but not football cos none of you can match my effort from last year :D)

Mardaves I think would be better than TC's because less wear and tear than on expensive TC's and breakages are cheap and quick to fix, just use the one car for the whole race. Pit stops would involve changing the battery only (keep transponder plugged in) - just have couple of basic rules like start and finish the race with the same chassis plate and body shell. How about a requirement for each team to have a special xmas painted bodyshell and a seperate prize for best shell?

Paul,

I think you have to be very careful in saying we only race Mardaves in an endurance race during our Xmas meeting as you are then alienating over half of the club's members.

Maz, I think your suggestion is spot on in terms of how we handle running both Touring Cars and Minis.

I would therefore suggest that those who wish to race at the Xmas party meeting let us know and which car they would like to run, either TC or Mini. I would then put all the F1 drivers into a hat, F2 into a hat and so on then select at random 3 teams made up of both TC and Mini drivers with a mixed range of skill levels to race. As Maz cleverly suggests, the race is split into two parts - TCs and Minis not then racing side by side.

We can then fine tune the rules to keep it simple and easy to follow and then we can all enjoy the nights racing :thumbsup:

I would also like to suggest a last man standing race. This would be loads of cars on track and you just race until only one is left. Zero tolerance on contact - if you hit another car your out. If you crash out the marshall removes your car and your out. Just keep driving around the track until your the last one running. To prevent someone driving very very very slowly and therefore conserving batteries, we could have a minimum lap time that drivers must keep to - that'll be interesting for the drivers :woot:

Scott you donkey, everyone would be involved, we would just be using the mardaves - anyone with a TC would form a team with someone that had a mardave - i have a spare car and battery packs that a team can borrow if necessary.......

I'm sure I'm not the only TC driver who actually wants to race their own car.

Maz's idea works very well, we simply have to change Transponder from one car to the next, making the pit change-over just as exciting as the racing itself.

I'm in favour of us all racing our own cars in teams, we all know our car's better than someone else's and therefore it's only fair that we are allowed to race our own.

christmas meeting
 

Our idea for an endurance race including tc's and mardaves is to select teams of equal tc 's and mardaves (using ther own cars). Select an endurance time period then say the tc's race for 5 minutes then a whistle is blown the cars stop at that point immediately that car is then replaced with the mardave, after 1 minute the whistle is blown and the race continues and so on, this 1 minute time freeze also allows the next marshalls to get into position. I also suggest that after a time period of 1 hour the racing freezes so we can enjoy our christmas pies. This time freeze will also allow for batteries to charge. Then racing continues to the end of the race. After all this has to be fun and not serious.

Twinwoods Racing

So it seems that most people seem to be up for the idea of an endurance race. I think now its a case sorting a few details out.

Firstly the teams, I like the idea that Scott has about picking the teams at random but at the same time, it owuld be nice to allow members to pick their own team mates where possible. Obviously in the spirit of making it as fair and interesting as possible, we don't want all the best drivers sticking together as it would spoil the competition.

Anyone have any thoughts or ideas on this?

Christmas meeting
 

If we are all in agreement that we are going to have an endurance race at christmas I suggest that the teams should be picked on the night when we know who is racing and with what. I agree with Maz that each team should be a mixture of fast and not so fast drivers. I think that each team should have a minium of 4 drivers, 1 racing, 1 marshalling and 2 working to maintain the cars. On our previous thread we mentioned 1 minute between cars, on reflection I think this should be increased to 2 minutes to ease the presure of changing over the transponders and the new driver getting into position on the rostrum. As Scott mentiioned I think it will be christmassy is the cars were dressed up slightly

TWINWOODS RACING

I think its important to have proper pitstops in the race as that is almost as big a part of the whole event as the actual racing is. If we wern't going to make th epit stops a part of the racing, then we might as well all race as normal and have each racer pick up points for their team and keep a running total to pick an overall winner.

Just be careful with dressing the cars up too christmassy, with the ilaps system, if you cover your car too much the transponder will stop working.

I think teams of around 6-7 cars would work best as then you would be racing then get approx 25-30 minutes before you would be due out again (calculating from 5 minutes per driver) which is about what it works out to be on an average club night.

Hey guys. Hope you are all well and enjoying your racing!

Just wanted to say nice idea about the team endurance race for your xmas meeting. I have done a few over the years and they are always great fun. I think the important factors are a track with a pit area designed in to it, balanced teams and for those still on old 27/40MHz tech having no frequency clashes.

Also if its ok with you all I will head down for the xmas meeting. I am starting a job for Jaguar Land Rover on Monday next week which is based near Warwick (about 1 hour 20 mins away). I get Friday afternoons off so might pop down for the odd meeting :D

Would be great to see and catch up with you all.

Take care everyone.

Firstly, congratulations on the job - best of luck and what a great early Xmas pressie for yourself... :)

We'd love to see you back racing on the odd night, was always a challenge to drive against you though Maz and Andrew are now making my life difficult :cry:

However on closer inspection I noticed my front end was missing a couple of screws on the underside of the chassis - no wonder my steering went to pot :blush:

William,

To be honest we have a lot to get through on the night, presenting trophies, the championship raffle and of course the nibbles :) Trying to sort out teams on the night will take up a lot of time, so I think it best we prepare teams in advance. Of course if someone is unable to make it on the night we can move things around a little if required.

Outline plan for Xmas Endurance Race...
 

I think with the current numbers, we would be looking at 3 teams for the endurance race to ensure there are enough in each team to help manage transitions and marshalling. So having listened to all the thoughts and ideas, how about the following...

Team endurance race split into two 40 minute races. With a break for nibbles and trophies/raffle and to allow batteries to be charged up again.

Each 40 minute race will be split into 20 minute sections (no stop in race) where first 20 minutes the TCs are on track and the second 20 minutes will be for Mini's/Mirco's.

Teams will be picked at random and evenly spread based upon driver skill.

Drivers wishing to take part should notify us before the end of the Autumn Championships so we can arrange teams in advance.

Each driver will race their own car and drivers in each team will share 1 PT.

This PT must be swapped from one car to another in a designated pit box that will be marked out on the track.

All cars taking part must be decorated for the festive time of year - it is your choice how crazy you go, but the car will need to be drivable around the track while decorated! :o

All drivers must drive their cars at least once, there after, drivers can opt to drive as much or as little as they wish, it's up to the teams to decide how they share out the driving.

All cars must compete at least 1 lap, there after, drivers can opt to race other team cars if they so wish.

Each team must have 2 drivers out marhsalling on the track at all times. Drivers only to marshal their own team car. (I know some think this might be a little hectic, but with only 3 cars on track at any time I think this is easily managed with 2 drivers covering half of the track each).

Race control will notify teams when there is 2 minutes before the 20min cut off so that teams can prepare to change to Mini's/Micro's.

Same construction rules apply to both TCs and Mini's/Micro's as per championship rules - only difference being that cars will be decorated :woot:


I think that covers everything, tried to keep it simple to follow. It's more about having fun than being a very serious endurance hence why all cars will need to be decorated!

I'm happy to step down from racing on the night so that someone can ensure all runs smoothly and you can all enjoy the evenings racing.

So if you want to take part on the night please let me know what car you will be racing, TC, Mini/Micro. I will put a list on the wall each week of the remaining rounds so those who are not on here can add their names to race on the night.

It sounds pretty good to me Scott. Can I suggest a couple of ideas though?

If we have TC then Mardaves in the first race. can we make it the other way around in the 2nd race?

Regards, picking teams, could we make the draw at the AGM? I'm sure we'll have time for that then? alternatively I did think of another idea...

In the week or two leading up to the xmas meeting, we have a few bags for each formula grade and have something (like some spare raffle tickets) with the team numbers marked inside. Of course the number of tickets in each bag and the numbers on them can be used to balance the team abilities (such as one team may get two F1 TC drivers, but another would get 2 top Mardave drivers)

As each driver books in for a meeting, they can draw a ticket to find out which team they will be in.

Or....

We could go with the old school playground system of having a few designated "captains" and have them pick out of the people the turn up on the day. That way it owuld keep things even, even if someone can't make it last minute etc.

No problem switching second race, although the Mardave drivers will probably want to stay running second to give them plenty of time to charge batteries. What do the Mardave drivers think who would be running?

Understand and take on board your ideas about team selection - what we could do then is if everyone has confirmed if they are running by the week of the AGM (meeting prior to Xmas party meeting) then I'll have drivers select a team from pulling number from bag, based on their skill levels.

In other words if we have 6 F1 drivers running and we have 3 teams, then there will be 6 numbers in a bag (2 x Team 1, 2 x Team 2 and 2 x Team 3) That way everyone can see it being fair :)

Oh and one other point... if you are going to go crazy with the bodyshell xmas decoration then make sure it is no taller than 20inches as you won't be able to get under the timing sensor bridge! :woot:

All sounds good to me, definitely stick my name on the list Scott :)

Roughly, how many people are you thinking of having per team? Was just thinking if you have 8 drivers per team as an example then every one is going to get about 8 mins driving (4mins per 40 min race). Maybe there could a team limit cap of 6 people? So there is 12 mins each driving in total and extra time to allow for the pits stops. Then if we have near 24 people we could have 4 teams. I don't know the numbers you are expecting so if there is only 18 people then this isn't an issue really.

Also maz should be classed as F1 just for the Xmas meeting, so a team doesn't get 3 F1 drivers unfairly :p

On that basis - Jon should count as 2 F1 drivers on his own ;)

:lol:

Maybe he could run on his own...

Then again, when Jon made a welcome return to the club last night, he made a mistake in the A Final that gave us all a chance to beat him, after 5 mins I was only 1 lap down on him :woot:

Remember all cars need to be decorated, so we could always put a heavy present on his car... :D

Who's racing then...
 

OK, so we now need to know who's racing in the Xmas Endurance Race.

Jonathan's confirm he'll be running his TC
Luke's confirmed TC as well

So put your name up in lights if you're going to race and what class - TC or Mini/Micro

We can them pick teams the week before :)

Count me in. TC

Come on guys, who's going to be joining the fun on our Christmas Party meeting we are running on Friday 17 Dec?

We are going to be doing an endurance race split into 2 halves. In between the racing we'll be presenting trophies for the winners of the Autumn Championships and also doing the Raffle prizes plus enjoying the nibbles...

We want as many of you racing, you'll all be racing your own cars in 3 or 4 teams depending on the numbers. We'll make sure the teams are well matched so don't worry, not all the F1 drivers will be in 1 team. I'd like to pull the names of the hat on the meeting before the 17th Dec, during the AGM if possible so please confirm you'll me racing, thanks.
:thumbsup:

I will be there with the mardave

ill be there:thumbsup:

Following on from last nights meeting, we now have a good list of drivers whoo want to race in the endurance race at the clubs Xmas Party meeting. Now both Andy B and Craig have ticked both TC and Mini. Based on the current numbers, if both Andy B and Craig run Mini's, we would have 9 TCs and 9 Mini drivers. Therefore we can have 3 teams of 6, with 3TC/3Mini in each team which I think would be a good mix, plus with 6 team members, you'll have enough people in each team to sort out marshalling and pit change over strategy.

So Maz, can you plan a good track for the nights endurance race, allowing for an area on track to make the pit changes as teams will have to change cars on the track and not in the pits. I'm sure you can come up with a good design :)

The drivers for Touring Cars are:

Luke
Maz
Jonathan
Tom
Nick
William
Edward
Matt G
Keith

The drivers for Mini's/Micros are:

Paul
Andy B
Lewis
Matt R
Nathan
Callum
Russell
Steve
Craig

Of course if others want to join in before we sort the teams out next week then we can either have larger teams or we can create a fourth team.

Don't forget that to race YOU MUST decorate your car for the seasonal festivities...

We might even have a prize for the best dressed car :woot:

Party Food
 

Thanks to all those who put down on the list what they would bring in terms of food for the Xmas meeting. If you haven't put anything down yet, this is what we have so you can decide on something else...

Drinks/Cups
Mini Sausages
Crisps
Sandwiches
Veggie food
Sausage Rolls
Pringles
Mince Pies

Looks like a good list Scott, glad there a quite a few people wanting to race :D

In terms of food stick me down for chocolate/sweets. I know its boring but I will bring along a tin of roses or quality street.

In terms of track design, I just had a quick look at the current layouts used for carpet. Track 13 looks like it could be good. Either the middle right (as you look away from the stage) section or the lower right section could be modified to allow for a pit area. Meaning that the very right hand strip of carpet in either section would be the pit area. Does that make sense?

We also need to have 3 individual pit boxes marked out in tape and the teams get to decide which box they have based on a game of rock paper scissors or something :p

See you all at christmas!

I like your thinking, this might work...

http://www.bedsrcmcc.co.uk/ctrack13aa.jpg

Of course we would have to put some track edging along the area of the pit, drivers would just pull up and team members would lift the car off the track to make the change :)

I'll have a look at track designs in a bit as well to see what we can do to make the track as big as possible whilst keeping an area for pitting. I think a crowded pit area is going to be a bit more exciting though.

As for food, I'm useless at picking stuff like that so can someone just tell me what to bring and I'll organise it

As much as I like the idea of individual pitting areas, I think the space required for it would be a bit much. The layout above would lose you 12m² in pitting and the layout already has some dead space in it already. Essentially you only need a safe space to pull off and put cars back on as the main transponder swap could take place on the bar counter to the side. there's no real need ot keep the cars on the track to do the swap.

So here's my track suggestion. Complete with dimensions so its easier to build
http://www.ratekid.free-online.co.uk/9.jpg

Some more noted on how the races could be run so that we don't have to think about it later.

I think there is a feature on RC timing where you can combine the total laps and times of multiple races to get an overall result. We should do this so that the overal result is the combined times of both races.

The reason why I say this is because of the way that the numbers work out with the race duration and the number of members in a team.

You could declare that the first 15 minutes of Race 1 is Mardave section, then the next 15 be TC, then the last 15 is Mardave again.

This is then reversed for the 2nd 45 minute race so you get 15 of TC, 15 of Mardave then 15 of TC again.

In total, TC get 45 minutes on track and Mardave get the same.

Breaking is down further, in each 15 minute session, you have 3 stints of 5 minutes each which would work out nicely as each member gets a leg each. There might be a little variation in the exact amount of time each person runs for due to cars having to pit early or something but at least the guide is in place.

Maybe we could have a mini prize for "best team name" "Best dressed car" and also "driver of the day" "pitman of the day" "marshal of the day" or somehting. Obviously they don't have to be big or proper prizes, just a litle something to recognise achievements for the day would be good I think

Good Track Design
 

Maz - agreed, we don't want to lose area to pits - your design looks spot on :thumbsup: We can tweak it slightly to bring the pit box in front of the serving counter if necessary.

- bring some mini samosas ;)

Paul, you're thinking the same as I. I figured with the locaiton of the pits its close enough to the serving counter also.

I'll bring Mini Samosas

Hi

Is it too late to come along to the Christmas meeting?
I forgot to put my name down on Friday....

I can do either TC or Mini whichever is more helpful.

Tim

Tim I'm sure you will be fine. There are a few more usual suspects who arn't on the list yet either so I'm expecting them to appear soon

Only if you Bring man size samosas. :)

Sorry I was looking at the wrong numbers. I didn't see that the races would be 40 minutes each no 45.

Just out of interest. Are we doing any other races that night? Just thinking that we could start racing by 8:00 and would need to finish by around 10:00-10:10. Would be need such a long break in the middle?

With the track design organised and the dimensions drawn out, I reckon we could have the track ready and raceable by 7:45 (no practice) and then we could run 60 minutes till 8:45 for race one, and start race 2 at 9:15 and go for another 60 till 10:15. We get everyone to help pack away at the end and we should be out in time.

If we're late starting of course we could reduce the time of the races but I think if we can squeze in 2 60 minute races, then a team of 6 drivers would get 4 runs of 5 minutes each which is the same as a normal meeting.

Am I being overly optimistic?

YEAH TIM! Hope I'm on your team! :thumbsup:

In terms of track design I do like your proposal Maz. There is just part of me that would like a pit lane. Maybe something like this (I hope you dont mind me using you image Maz):

http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/a...R_photos/1.png

Where the Red lines are guttering and the Blue lines are simply tape to mark the entrance and exit. The pit would only have to be 2.5 cars width wide. I also think it just affords people a bit more space. If we do use this we would need to say the usual rules apply with the car on track having right of way.

Also what happens if someone has a technical problem on the night just before their run, will we be allowed to choose another driver to take their place?

Maybe slight overly optimistic but nothing wrong with that! I do like the sound of 2 x 1 hour races. If Scott agrees to one hour races then I think we just need to vary everyones run time to fit everyone in. For example

6 drivers per team with 3 driving twice (as you said Maz) = 9 driving slots per race.
Would mean = 6 mins 40secs each (60 mins divided by 9).
- So 6 drivers = 6 mins driving per time and allowing 40 seconds +/- for pit stops.

Following this on:

8 drivers = 12 driving slots = 5 mins in total so probably around 4mins 30secs driving each.

Odd numbers of racers is where it gets interesting lol. We could do uneven race lengths, for example with 7 racers:

Race 1 = 7 racers race once with 3 having a second go = 10 racing slots.
5 mins 30 secs per racing slot gives a race length of 55 mins.

Race 2 = 7 racers race once with other 4 having a second go = 11 racing slots.
again 5 min 30 secs per racing slot = 60 mins 30 secs (this can be rounded up or down).

Does that make sense?

Which would give everyone 3 races and would keep it within the 2 hours total of driving. If it helps and we are allowed in early I can be at the hall anytime from 6:30pm :)

I'm getting a headache just reading these posts!
 

:cry:

There is going to be the trophies to hand out, the raffle to do and a chance for people to have a break to charge batteries and nibbles, so I think 45 mins per race is more than enough time Maz.

We want the evening to be very relaxed and chilled out so no rush to get racing...

As for the pic I added with the track and pits - maybe I didn't make it clear, when I labeled them Pit 1,2,3 I didn't mean that's where everyone is with tables and kit, just where the car is pulled in and PT transfered, so teams would only be in those squares during a car change. Still plenty of track to enjoy.

As for the racing itself, again, we tried to make it very simple so that after halfway through the 45min race I will announce the change over from TC to Mini/Micro. All team members only need to complete 1 lap in each 45 minute race for the team to qualify for the overall positions. It's up to the teams how they decide to split up the driving stints, as some drivers could run for 8+ minutes if they wish. Trying to oversea how long people drive for will be a nightmare - so it doesn't matter how long drivers are on track.

Let's leave it to the teams to decide how they want to race, that way it makes for a more interesting race - will long stints and less changeovers be quicker then short stints and more change overs - can drivers run for 8+ minutes without fatigue...

At the end of the day as this is the Xmas Party Meeting we should follow the gold rule of KISS

Keep It Simple Stupid

Can't go wrong then...

Don't forget to decorate your cars...