Why no off road Tarmac tracks?
 

With the whole Moto-Arena thing up for debate, i just wondered why nobody has ever built a Tarmac off road track??

I'm not talking about a T/C track with some jumps, but a track that's smooth flowing, with banked corners, tabletops, whoop sections etc...

If you think about it, you could run Proline Dirt Hawgs or whatever they're called, they'd last absolutely ages, you could run in all weather conditions as long as the drainage is designed properly like roads so the water runs off the edge.....

You could then just make some shock top protectors to allow the cars to "skid" if they landed upside down, rather then snapping things or ruining shocks.

When Lee's CML Raceway was first built the whole track was actually Tarmacced before Astro was laid over the top - We drove on it a couple of times with the wrong tyres but it was still good fun, and even then i think we talked about the idea.....

It would basically be no different to a proper hard packed dirt track, similar grip levels, it would blue groove nicely in the sun and provide an awesome surface in my opinion.... especially as you could run in the wet with no issues!!

What do you think?? Even Concrete would work just as well surely!??

Think of a hard packed dirt track - they may as well be concrete!

Supermoto tracks are pretty much EXACTLY what i'm thinking of, you could even have an Astro / Dirt infield that you could run if the weather was good

Awesome couple of vids here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEcxHSncg08

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=AfbD...eature=related

http://www.supermotoracer.com/0707_j...orld_track.jpg

http://www.emoto.com/img/news/200810...le-circuit.jpg

http://motocross-jaska.com/web2/imag.../pleven_08.jpg

Last night running at the Moto Arena for 3 hours I ran a set of foams trued to Losi wheels that were excellent and lasted really well (and they were trued up to look like full sized buggy tyres and not make the car look cack) and I also ran a set of used Ballistic Buggy Greens which got better as the spikes wore off. These would easily last a whole meeting if not two before they were destroyed and you could obviously use tyres that were past their best that you'd normally be acetoning. The important thing would be any jumps would have to have a really long landing ramp as landing on the tarmac is a big car breaker :thumbsup:

Late 80s or early 90s, can't quite remember, Medway Off Road Club tarmacked over the clay (cos it was all bumpy and pitted) the day before a national, bit of surprise turning up on the Sunday. Wasn't very nice really, tyres didn't last too long.

We sometimes run tarmac buggy at our local parking lot races. (called the 'FastCats Depot')
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv2Iri1CmDE
Unfortunately this isn't a dedicated offroad track... it`s an onroad track us offroaders run on just to get our buggy fix. That explains the dinky little jumps.
The best tires by far to run are worn down dirt tires (hole shots, bar codes, block heads etc) with something like Buggy Grip applied to the tires. While dirt hawgs last longer than the offroad tires, the traction sucks by comparison. An old set of hole shots might last you a few weeks of racing. None of us bought any tires, we just used tires that were too worn out to use on dirt any more.
Also, the track is blown off with a tennis court blower, then sprayed with sugar water to make the traction extra good.
A track with proper jumps, like the one`s shown above, would be awesome!

Nick, I've had this idea in the back of my mind for years!

if you think about it, what everyone loves is a super blue-groved dirt track, feels like racing on off-road tarmac...

why not skip the prep and the time take for the track to 'rubber in'

I agree with you! (as always it seems)

maybe ill take the astro off??????????????????????????????????????????????? ????

Do it!!!

Let's do it - Maybe i could even get a car to race then as it's so close to home, i could even bring Imogen out for the day :D

Chris, it's just great minds and all that you see ;-)

I was watching the Supermoto a while ago and thought if it works for them, there's no reason we couldn't do it in off road..... Especially with some simple thick lexan covers over the top of the shocks - Like a mini front and rear wing that protects them??

Either slick Proline Dirt hawgs, or worn out Holeshots & ribs - The cars would be awesome, (even in the wet too)!

If you think about it, CML Raceway could literally be Re-Born, as the first UK Off Road Tarmac track, and all it involves is removing stuff - SIMPLES :D

If we could just modify the infield a tad, we could have options for adjusting the layout too, maybe use the Astro to cover the rest of the infield so the main track is Tarmac, with the option to run onto Astro :thumbsup:

im up for it..... saturday?

I can't do Saturday as i've already got plans, and i'm away all next week (Back for your big day) :thumbsup:

We can definitely do it over the winter though, how easy do you reckon that Astro will pull up?

The reason no one has ever done it in R/C is simply cost. The expense for asphalt is really high, and unless you can use a track like this for something else, there is no chance anyone drops the cash to lay that tarmac down that isn't smooth enough to park on it.

Not to mention that R/C racers today are resistant to any track that doesn't change from week to week, and you'd be building a relatively permanent layout.




I love the idea, though.

Sounds like a cool idea, but then thats making it less and less "off road" ?

I bloody love that idea guys!!! (when can i collect the astro then lee!! lol)

I foten drive my car in our yard on the tarmac and the grip is amazing. A full on track would be superb!!

I can see the benefits, and would be more than willing to try it out.

Not trying to be negative but one thing that occurs is the potential for more damage, thus cost. Touring cars are all nicely covered up by their shell. Roll a touring car and the shell protects everything else. Where as buggies have suspension components etc all outside the shell. If you've even rolled a buggy on tarmac at speed the effect is like attacking it with a sander. Shocks, towers, body shell etc can and are likely to all be ruined in just one roll.

Just my input, but you don't get that on a dirt, astro or carpet track.

Great idea, would probably cost more than astro to construct initially but would be zero maintenance once it was done. Some drainage gullies could even be built in in discreet areas so that it would be truly all weather (maybe I'm getting a little carried away). If jump landings were a concern, maybe even some sections of that rubberised stuff like you get in kiddies playgrounds.

That's why i put:

You could then just make some shock top protectors to allow the cars to "skid" if they landed upside down, rather then snapping things or ruining shocks.

OR, run rallycross shells like back in the day!!:thumbsup:

I've snapped countless shock towers where it has 'dug in' on grass or astro, that wouldn't happen so its swings and round-abouts.

and as Nick said, if your worried, some lexan 'knee sliders' could be made-up

Ah yes missed that.

Yeah they'd be pretty easy to make up - just some thicker Lexan from a bodyshell off cut or whatever cut so you could bolt it behind the shocks and then folded up over the top or something - sure people could quickly make something anyway, even from an old rear wing :D

I do think it'd work though, the main benefit for me would be all weather racing as the water shouldn't gather anywhere if it's done right, and grip would still be pretty good with the right tyres....

PLUS the Tyres wouldn't wear out!! Not for ages anyway.... and what do people moan about most?? :thumbsup:

Anyway the other thing with breaking stuff, is you really would have the same problems racing on hard compacted dirt anyway as in the baking sun those tracks are as hard as concrete anyway!

Metro 6R4 FTW!!:thumbsup:

Then these cars got narrower - more realistic proportioned... we tarmaced over our off road tracks (Broxtowe & Southend) and so touring cars were born :D

I like the idea of an off road tarmac track, it would be superfast - but in my mind you can't beat good old fashioned grass/dirt ;)

Com'on Lee Get it donee :thumbsup::thumbsup:

cack picture...

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...elsshells1.jpg

I have a 406 and a 6R4 with Kamtec currently ;)

Crack......

Now that I'd like to see. Been wondering about making track surfaces out of that. I'm not sure how fast it would wear out, but the grip would be mental.

I rather like this tarmac offroad track idea. Its all weather, all year round usable (bit chilly in December though!), minimal maintenance and if you choose the right mix easy on the tyres.
Cost need not be prohibitive - astro is pricy and specialist so the chances of getting much of a deal on it are minimal Tarmac isn't cheap but I'd bet most clubs have members who know someone can do them a tarmacing job on the side for very little.

1990 was the year.

I loved the dirt track and had spent a lot of time running, then we get to the site on the Friday evening and they had covered it in tarmac and then put a sort of fine stone over the top which soon got sweapt off the racing line :cry:

It was in June and if memory serves the weather wasn't great either. I tried running some Amark square blocks!! Had a crap meeting all in all.

I'll chase Keef @ Kamtec up and see what the chances are of an RS200 and 205T16 as well! None of this modern stuff - keep it Group B :thumbsup:

Awesome idea though - how much more power do we have available now compared to when "Rallycross" was tried back in the 80's?

Glad I hung on to a set of Proline buggy slicks.............

Sack buggies, bring on the rally cars! HPI RS4 Rally, SST Rally etc etc.

:D

Nooo, as cool as they are i just want to see basically USA Style Hard packed tracks, but built for all weather purposes (i.e Tarmac) as it would give very similar driving conditions to dirt, and provide similar grip levels.

I wanna see big rolling doubles, table tops and banked curves like the SuperMoto track :thumbsup:

I dont understand the appeal. Isnt "Offroad" supposed to be just that?? :confused:

this is a great idea, only last week at our track i was talking about this in a jokey sort of off the cusb thing. and funnily enough my insperation was the same supermoto track, however i think having a dirt section aswell would make it even more interesting having to set the buggy up for both.

[pikey voice] Can I tarmac ya track for ya? Me n the boys will do ya a good deal, maybe chuck in some dags [/pikey voice]

hey, we could all run rally bodyshells, slick tyres, maybe shorter shocks?

Oh shit, it's the late 90s all over again.

I think a few people are getting the wrong idea about the surface, forget its tarmac as in on-road, just think of it as a different surface. I think a hard surfaced offroad track would be cool, especially if it could be maintained outdoors in the UK and work in the rain!

Spot bo!!ock on mate, exactly what i'm trying to say...........

Watch any online vids of the Cacus, Silverstate Nitro race, and any other big race in the states, or even Yatabe arena - That's exactly what i'm picturing but the benfit of using Tarmac or concrete is it means you can use a track like that OUTSIDE in the UK, you get the same sort of grip, proper drainage, and basically USA style racing on a hard packed track that will rubber in properly

It won't have the random odd bumps you get with more traditional UK tracks, but the US style hard packed tracks don't have these either - that's what i'd like to see over here, even if there's just one in the UK.

West Londons track use to be on tarmac, the days of Chris Boakes

Tarmac undulating tracks
 

southend outdoor track is tarmac and has undulations. is very similar to when it was the off road multi surface track. take a look at website. SRCCC.
Tarmac laying is a massive expense and would need serious investment.:thumbsup:

no its not,i know,i used to lay the stuff!!!
cotswold lay'd there hole track for less than 20 grand!
and if your not tryin to lay on-road type surface,ie:flat and smooth,any monkey with a wacker plate can do it!! like club members!!!??