New National Format
 

What do people think about this idea for BRCA Nationals:

Run 2wd and 4wd simultaneously over the two days (Sat and Sun) so the format would be something like this >>>>>>>>>>

Sat:

2wd and 4wd practice (2 rounds of each) followed by 2 rounds of qualifying.

Sun:

2wd and 4wd three further rounds of qualifying followed by finals

.................................................. .............................................

Of course this is bad for people that only do one class but our nationals are way oversubscribed so I'm sure they would still get full entries.

The main benefit of this would be everyone has a better chance to get used to the track, removing some of the home track advantage plus each driver willl have had 4 practices before having to qualify (albeit 2 2wd and 2 4wd runs).

It also might create more of a big event feel as everything builds up to the end of sunday?

sounds good.
would it be too much for some people running two classes in one day though?

Nice idea rish but what about peopel who dont have equipment for 4wd and 2wd i havent got a problem but there are some people who run the same equipment in 2wd and 4wd this will mean they are forever switchig there kit between cars. Also its not that easy to swtich between the two classes. So instead of only making one change you will now be making 3 changes between. Also people who only do one class will be waiting around for a long time. But also i do agree iwth the ide aof having it all finish on sunday i thinkthat would be nice. But personally i dont think it would work it would get confusing for everyone.

A

My few pence

I can't see anybody with enough money to run around the county not having enough equipment to run both classes, but I could be wrong....

There are some people i used to do it for a while before i saved for brushless.

Sorry to be a party pooper but I don't like the idea.

I agree with what Ashley says about people who don't have enough equipment to cover two cars. And also people who only do one class because they can't be away for full weekends as well as people who do one class by choice having to wait around. And as well, if a person breaks both their cars in the same round, even with the big gaps it'll be hectic, maybe TOO hectic.

I'm sure I could think of another few problems with it but I'm a bit tired...

Although I can also see the logic, I just don't like the idea of it or think it'd work. Sorry!

nope, sorry i don't like it, it takes me long enough to get used to a track running one class let alone 2 in the same day. also what happens at a track like oswestry on grass, will you run the same track for both days? or change like now. if 2 days will the track hold up?
also rich would it be sat 2 rounds quali for each class and 3 rounds for each class sunday as if not you will end up doing less racing than a normal national weekend, either way the hours won't add up, you will either have less racing or have to run on sunday 6 rounds of quali and 2 lots of finals i can imagine finish

depending on entry numbers, would it actually be a shorter day?

At a normal National we have 80 races on a Saturday and 74 on a Sunday (I've included 4 qualifiers, finals plus 2 extra A legs and a practice round - I realise we have 2 but they don't usually last 5 minutes each).

With the suggested format it would mean 100 races on the Saturday (13 2wd heats, 12 4wd) and 125 on the Sunday.

... ouch!

(you can tell I'm bored / shattered when I start working things out...!)

the tracks over here in the usa get pretty beat up by the time the mains are up after running 2wd, 4wd, and truck classes. You can see the lap times get slower each round because of track wear and tear. If you guys are enjoying your current format, I wouldn't suggest changing it. Your way seems like much less stress.

sorry rich,
personally i dont like the idea,
ive tried doing 2 classes in a day and i struggle with changing driving styles,

trekkker

yeh i agree....changing driver styles is hard work!!!

hence why i cant seem to do well at cactus...

messes u up!

Some people cannot make both saturday and a sunday currently at nationals, so this would rule them out completely :rolleyes:

Regarding driving style i have noticed that i am driving better with my b4 then before when i had 6 cars. I have seamed to foces more just on the one car!

I really don't like this idea.

As for disabling one car to run the other, Craig Collinson was sharing shock absorber parts between two cars at the last few meetings I have seen him at...

What if we have one of those weekends, nice and dry Saturday and p!$$!ng down on Sunday. As it stands I only have one car to clean, with this format I would have two cars to clean after Sunday and would be likely that id just pack up to be honest.

Also, I really like the current race format. Whats the issue with home track advantage anyway, this exists at all purpose built tracks and it works for us at some venues and against at others, then some people are naturally good on some track types... Surely this exists on all forms of motorsport?

Sounds ACE, lets DO IT!

Dont like it sorry

keep it how it is or make 4wd on sat and 2wd on sun

I recon 4wd sat 2wd sun.

I like it rich, sounds more exciting

Sorry if this has been said before but say like if you have only 1 speedo/electrics and you swap from 2wd to 4wd? this would be a problem.

You guys should try to come to more races in the US and try it. Honestly, by the pics on Jimmy's site here, it looks like you guys are having more fun than us.

Blimey, that got more responses than I thought!

As for how long the days would be, maybe I was optimistic with an extra qualifying round, but if we still have four rounds of qualifying then theres no more races to be run over the weekend than there is currently so the days would be identical, if not possible a bit shorter due to there only being one stop needed after practise to reseed heats, instead of two stops.

As for what happens if you break both your cars, this would be exactly the same as if you broke your 2wd in rd 1 then did the same in round two. You would expect the same ammount of time between hitting the track (1.5 hrs or so).

Personally I find the different track layouts take longer to get used to than hopping from one car to another (might help you do better at the cactus too Lee? :) ).

I also think the track deteriorating over the course of a meeting is one of the best aspects of off road racing. I'd also say that most tracks (if they are going to cut up) tend to be pretty much blown out after a couple of rounds and changing the layout for 4wd generally just makes practise a bit of a waste of time. If it gets too bad you can still alter the track for day 2, just like they do when it rains.

I do see the problem with only having one set of electronics too, also folk who have to work on a saturday or sunday. Just wanted to gauge opinion, so far negative sums it up best!!!

New National Format
 

Rich,

Not too sure about your idea but I am in total agreement that something needs to be done to stop the locals having such an advantage, again you can almost predict who is going to be in the majority of the A finals and for the "nearly made it"'s its the same old story.

I bet that most of the A finalists have practiced on the track for about 3 months before

J

i dont think our A finalists practised 3 months before...

some have yeh agreed...

but either me or daz had been to bury, even for a meeting....

i think the same goes for ellis....

last time I raced at Bury Metro was the national before this one, I got second in 4WD and 7th(I think) in 2WD...

As it seems the main issue with Rich's plan is people running the same electrics in both cars how would people feel about the following which i belive would take away home advantage to a certain extent and take away any need to visit a national track before a national.

4 2wd nationals (Best 3 to count) Sat practice Day Sunday race Day
4 4wd nationals (Best 3 to count) Sat practice Day Sunday race Day

Benefits that i can see

• Potential for a day practice before race day
• only one car to get ready for a weekend
• no need to brave the friday night traffic on motor ways as you could travel up sat morning
• Potential for people that stay in hotels to only have one night rather than 2 which may mean over the course of the season 8 nights v 12 nights if you always stay over on the friday night
• Potential to use less tyres if you do not always run new in practice
• more clubs could hold nationals
• If you work Saturdays you could now compete at 2wd nationals

Issues i can see

• 2 more weekends in an already packed calander
• Clubs would potential only get paid for a Sunday race meeting where as they currently get paid for a Sat & Sunday meeting

What are peoples thoughts?

Now that is not bad, not bad at all :)

Not sure if i go for this local advantage stuff really. yeah, you'll get a few surprises in the A final at certain tracks during the year, but the overall positions in the championship will even itself out throughout the course of the season.

I do like the sound of this idea for the nationals myself , but to be fair to all competitors, i just can't see it happening. i know too many people who work saturdays for a start!! And yeah, imagine what a ballache swapping speedo's round throughout the day would be!! :o

Who really only has 1 speedo that they use in both cars?

Come on, hands up....... :o

G

Another benefit of running nationals to my sugggested format would be practice on the Sunday morning could be cut down there for giving us a chance to get away earlier so most people can be home at a decent time on a Sunday.....

Regarding Home advantage, i am afraid as the tracks that want to hold nationals are generally the purpose built tracks it is becoming more relevant to practice at these tracks to ensure you are good to go on the Day, It is why people such as Neil Crag, Tom Yardy & Phil Sleigh etc have made the effert to visit Stotfold already and yes there are guys such as Lee and Bloomers that don't practice at the tracks but can perform on the day. I do some of the kiddy winter series meetings as i feel the need to practice at these tracks to give myself the best opportunity but reality is some tracks are just to far for all of us to practice at.

Si mate, cracking plan! That is really superb.

I'll sign up for that.

thats a really good idea si,
deffinately gets my vote,

trekkker

Maybe cut out all the practice on sunday and have extra heats???

I would defo be up for a spot of that!!

Yea i guess we could have booking in on the Sat afternoon and maybe finish the day with a controlled practice run to check xtals etc so we were good to go first thing Sunday morning which would mean we could get 140 people booked in??????? and still finish on time........;) (but could be a problem for people who decide not to turn up on the saturday. i think about 60% of tc national entries turn up on the Saturday with the rest just comming along on the Sunday though so may have to have a 2 min practice run Sunday morning)

Paul Worsley mave have a small heart attached with more drivers to manage though.........but it is an idea at this stage.

If more people think it is a good idea i will propose it at AGM time

think the main problem would be the extra 2 weekend's, especially for the brca team, they already do 9 weekends per year with the nationals, end of season/indoors finals, plus for regions trying to fit in a full series with 2 less weekends to use. ive tried to get a 2 day regional in midwest for 2 years but keep getting told people have trouble getting more saturdays off!
imho it aint broke so don't try and fix it

I like Si's idea, that would rock.

Recently, I been thinking to myself how fast seasons come and go - i.e. right now we have had 3 rounds of the nationals and feels like we have hit the 50% marker early in the calender.... although things like the Worlds and Euros need to be avoided, but id like the summer season to be longer (and drier) than the winter indoor season..

Chris

chris
see your point about not being broke but we are turning away people from nationals with 20+ reserves, we need to look at the format to see if we can get more heats.

my suggestion run it like the euro's first day practice and 2 rounds of qualifying, then second day 3 rounds and finals. yes it stops people who cannot attend saturday but there are 150 people who can and do.

there are advantages on running a single class weekend but of course you will need more of them.

This would put me off some of the far away nationals, I would have to get more time off work and sacrifice more holidays to do them all.

Im with Si and John on this,
The idea of 4 and 4 is great, i would also prefer Sat: 2 Rounds of practice + 2 rounds of Quali then 2/3 rounds on sunday plus finals.
Numbers can increase allowing our nationals to be MASSIVE. Also keeps the carnival atmosphere.
I would say most people attend nationals for the social side as well as the racing ???

The friday's don't really bother me (personally) it's the travelling home from your Tiverton's, Bury's and Southport's on a sunday evening.

What do you think it's like for people traveling back from Tiverton when they have to travel south to get to the likes of Bury and Southport :mad: :mad:

G