Durango Rip Offs
 

Just found this article on NeoBuggy.

http://www.neobuggy.net/modules/news...p?storyid=7910

I take you back to this thread;

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40729

Shame Durango didn't keep the manufacture in Europe, but that's the risks you take.

This will be interesting as I dont know what patents they have?
Also, i think you only infringe copyright if you catually steal someones drawings effectivley and make an exact copy. If you make subtle changes like, different materials, slightly different dimensions etc, you cant be touched...or thats my understanding. I hope it doesnt happen to Durango, it will be the shits if it does :(

It will probably cost so much in legal fees that it won't be worth chasing.

Business in China = Dancing with the Devil.

lets not forget, they will want to sell this car cheap, and the Racer that Durango is selling to, will want the real deal. The ones who do buy it, will probably not buy a new Durango anyhows, so as much as it looks bad, it isn't that much of an issue. The biggest issue is Brand Awareness.

Just like the music industry, and pirate downloads, we all used to tape the top 40, but now they can trace you, they assume that they are losing sales, where in fact those people more than likely wouldn't go and buy it anyways.

Thats quite true that. I also fly r/c helicopter and for a few years the Align T-Rex series has been the benchmark kit if you will. And the amount of T-Rex clones is unreal, i reckon there is atleast 20 clones on the market of just the T-rex 450 alone. But like DCM says, the discerning modeller will never buy the clone they will only buy the real deal. Main reason is the clones are always poor quality, made of cheap materials, crap bearings etc.

I can see a lot of kids buying the Durango clone but as soon as they realise its crap they will buy the real deal. Where as I can see in the short term it may take money from Durango, it may infact actually increase their sales when people do realise the extra quality you get with the real kit.

Hopefully going bad like AERO for them!

My guess is this will do little more than increase Durango spare parts sales. Chinese compies usually don't do spares for their copies.

Anybody got a link to the cheap car? :p

does the chinese version come with some free knock-off DVDs? might help sweeten the deal.

;)

This looks very "Durango like" from Alien Power, news article from Racer website
http://www.rcracer.com/off-road-elec...pe-teaser-shot

Even the spring colours are the same!

Alien Power German, not Chinese :eh?:

"Famed" for their micro's?

Umm.....really?

I thought they made PC cases :?

Aint that Alienware

It's like when you are buying a car.

Audi for example reliable, made with expense materials and will hold it'a value.

Seat, same chassis, same engines, same performance but doesn't hold it's value.

Durango will be fine as there's loads already sold but if the car is identical then Durango should come out and justify the price tag. As the company that makes the copy will have to pay for special tooling too especially if it proves to be as reliable or more so.

The "R" version should stop too many copies being sold.:thumbsup:

Carl, Alien Power are just a re-seller, there motors are all Trinity teardowns by the looks of things, they dont make it, just distribute it I guess...

They don't really have to justify the price if it is higher than the copy, even if the copy is identical. There's more to the cost of producing the car than just the physical kit the end user ends up buying. There's four years of research and development for a start, plus the fact they came up with the 'ideas' in the first place.

I wrote about this, but about the touring car clones that have appeared.

http://gazdesigns.wordpress.com/2009...rfeit-culture/

Its totally unethical to steal the hard work and design of one company. Its not the same as taking inspiration when all the parts are interchangeable. :(

I doubt they'd be able to get away with that some how, its not even subtle with that picture, they've taken a pic of the durango 410r and blurred it a little the cheeky beggers!

I dunno if your theory holds up to well when it comes to RC Cars, as they are sold on reputation and the label, so if you want a Tamiya, your going to buy a Tamiya, not a cheap knock-off.

I guess it depends on how you work your logic back though doesn't it. I don't see why the person who really wants an X-Brand car, because of how it handles and it's reliability, would opt for a cheap knock-off.

On the flip side, the places that these 'knock offs' are to be sold, isn't where you racer is looking to buy his/her car. So the probability is that the majority of people who do buy them, wouldn't even entertain buying the X-Brand.

The only thing that is effected, in reality, is company brand and image, but as we are mostly aware in our little 'racing community' we would know it was a knock-off copy.

one easy way to discourage people buying them is if we see one at a race meeting simply STAMP ON IT !:thumbsup:

I don't know why everyone is surprised or shocked, last time I look every 1/8 scale gaz buggy looked the same as the original kyosho inferno with minor changes to dimensions. The B44 suspension looks like the Cat sx witch looks like the losi xxx4. Companies take each others ideas and change minor esthetics and make it their "design", so a exact copy isn't that different than whats concidered "legal".

first of all, that pic that Darren linked to is ridiculous... if I had just been shown that pic I'd say someone had been dicking around with photoshop 'effects' and a Durango 410 picture.

secondly, xxx4 geometry is/was miles off anyting that is out there now, the diff's are too big to get anything near geometry that works so I wouldn't say that the B44 is a copy of that, neither is any other car that I can think of.

the diff's were too low on the shelf weapon (TC) that went from off-road to on-road, and the diff's were too high/big on the xxx4 that came from an on-road xxx-s.

evolutions in geometry that seems to happen with TC's, 8th scale nitro, 10th scale off-road is 'copying' a little bit, but there are only so many effective ways you can setup some double-wishbone suspension and soon people fall on what seems to be an optimum.

but a blatent reverse engineering job without any changes to method of fixing bits together, geometry, even bodyshell is so so wrong!

copy's
 

THAT ALL DEPENDS ON WHO'S CAR IT IS, IF HE'S A LOT BIGGER THAN YOU ARE YOU MIGHT END UP CHEWING A BIT OF BOOT LACE.:cry::woot:

agreed there, its pathetic that these people can't design their own product, clearly not a race company so don't expect race quality.:yawn:

First of all, the xxx4 front wishbone was the first to incrporate the yoke and outer c style steering hub, all previous designes had the c hub inside the wishbone. We are both saying the same thing when it comes to goemetry.

That doesn't mean I agree at all with reverse engineering the Durango, I think it stinks. But when the chinesse have copied merc Maybach and a Ferrari P4 some of the rarest and most expensive cars in the world, do you think a little rc car is any big deal. I also collect vintage transformers, china has started copying them for acouple of years now making it hard to collect vintage toys

We are to blame for this situation, we are always looking to by more for less and go to china to get it regarless of the consequences.

In recent events here in Canada, Bauer the hockey equipment company, recalled thousands of hockey sticks because of lead being in the paint. So even legitimate companies are supporting them. Durango, like most all other companies make parts in China so this is the inevitable outcome.

I manufacture aluminium products here in Canada only using Canadian made materials and pay more for parts and of course sell my product at a higher price. Until others start doing the same we loose, not only our designs, but our jobs as well

I urge everyone to boycott these cheap Chinese knock off's. We all like a bargain, but ultimately we will shoot ourselves in the foot. If the likes of Durango, Schumacher etc can no longer afford to design and sell kits then the game is over.

They are giving us all the rope we need to put a big ol' noose right round our own necks.

RebelRC has got it right, if you see one, squash it. Just be sure it isn't a real Durangotango, 'cause that would be awkward. :eh?::woot:

I think you mean XX4 here, I think CD knows his stuff about Losi's ;)

G

there could be another reason, Durango is made in far east, and pound to a penny they also make other parts for other manufactures, poss serpent etc

if durango have not tied that deal up air tight or the factory is selling cheaper parts off there lies the problem

did you see the copy of the schumacher touring car? near identical but crap quality

Jeeze mate, cheer up, life isn't that bad and nothing is over.

The internet is only about 15 years old and the global economy is changing faster than what old ways can keep up. We are merely going through a transitional period during which time, things will change. At some point things will naturally stabilise.

The game will never be over as long as there are innovators and consumer demand. Innovators will make new products no matter what, innovators have never stopped making products just because they don't have money or because they are scared their ideas will be stolen. They make products because they are enthusiastic about it.

On the other hand consumers always want what you are selling but they want it at half the price. This isn't a new thing and there is nothing wrong with it. It's the natural order of life because we are not all gazzillionaires.

Some poor racer could well end up buying such a copy, probably s/hand for good money thinking it's the real deal - who would like to break the bad news to them track side...

To be fair, it's kind of happening with lots of things. Take my job. I charge my clients £40 an hour, yet you could hire someone in India to do the same job (just not as good) for £8 an hour. When you look at the difference, the £8 an hour seems a bargain even if you have to pay for a few 'extra' hours to get the job done right.

Everyone wants everything cheap. As a result our call centres go abroad, then people complain about it. It's our own doing.

I remember looking to buy a motorbike a couple of year ago, the amount of copies from China were unbelievable, some of them looked stunning, but would be lucky to last 6 month! A brand new copy bike was something like £800, or £2000 if you bought the genuine article.

Historically, have ANY knock off cars from China (or elsewhere) ever sold well or filled the marketplace? And I'm talking about knock offs, all the way back to the Shine Home Beagle—that horrible Optima Mid abomination from the late 80s.

Hmm, tbh I think Durango could win out of it anyway. There was a knock of 416 a little while ago, NOONE who bought it would have ever bought the real car due to price (or at least, certainly not new), but the knock off had 5 or 6 things wrong on it which meant all who bought it had to buy Tamiya parts to put on it, hence money to Tamiya.

Then, having seen it was pretty quick for the 2 laps before falling apart, a couple o the guys did then go and buy a 416.

Tamiya sold more kits and spares due to the copy, certainly from what I read on it.

Doesn;t make it right (its wrong), but not all doom and gloom either!

At the end of the day, if these companies are changing dimensions just to knock out a cheap replica, then the clones aren't going to handle as well a the original are they?
Geometry is going to be all over the place.

That pick on the other link is just a PS'd durango pic. Simple as that. It stinks.

:thumbdown:

Your right my finger went faster than my brain, I get a little angry when I hear China knocked of someone's work. Cheap China sh#t has affected my companies bottom line for years now.

As far as I can see the only real risk is the aforementioned 'misrepresentation' con, where someone tries to pass the cheap clone off as the real deal. Easily spotted in real life, but a common trick on Ebay for example.

Otherwise its really not going to hurt Durango's sales, especially once the R version comes out. No racer is going to buy one expecting Durango performance - the people that will buy them are newbies who currently buy Master Smackers etc. Which means unless they really manage to hash it up, they will be getting something much better than they currently have, just not as good as a real Dex410.

Ironically the dangerous part is that as each year passes the quality of these knockoffs improves. The cloners are starting to understand materials and how they relate to performance - which means clone parts are less and less distinguishable from the original. The fear for someone like Durango shouldn't be a cheap knockoff of a £400 that sells for £150, but something like a true clone (ie literally identical and indistinguishable) selling for £300. That just might eat into their market.

The thing is these clones are not always poor quality, some of them are as good as if not better than the originals. I have proper T-Rex heli's and I have clones and 2 of my clones are better than my T-Rex because the cloner had time to fix the problems that was in the original kits. They don't change the dimensions either, my proper Align T-Rex parts fit all my heli's, clones included. There is no difference in material quality either and my bearings in both have lasted as long as the other.

Yes there are the odd cheap crappy one but most of them are as good as the original. They don't give a monkey in China, they copy it exactly like it is.

In the RC heli world cloning is rife and has been happening for years and years. I am surprised it has taken so long for cars to start being cloned. For heli flyers it's just part of the game, you show up at the airfield and half of the heli's are clones but 80% of people who own clones also own the originals. My original heli's are now shelf queens because I would rather crash a £100 chopper than a £400 chopper.

It will be a bit different with cars because you don't exactly nearly destroy the whole thing in a crash but I do think if a £100 Durango knock off hits the market that quite a few people will be buying one and pretending it's the real thing.

Sad but true many RC company's outsource production (Unknown to you) so the knock-offs are usually made on the same production line and sold at half the cost...

First off, yeah this knockoff stinks to high heaven.

But I've also been looking at the rumoured TRF Tamiya 2wd lately and it seems to be a rip-off of the B4....which would be a tad dissapointing if that's how it turns out.
Kyosho's RB5 also lends itself to the B4 design too and Durango themselves seem to have borrowed the B4 front end holacebolace for their dex210.....which is a beautiful design btw. So......???

Still, to completely clone someone elses design and sell it cheaper is pretty low (I'm looking at you Ansmann).