Nationals preferential entries?
 

The UK National series is possibly the worlds highest quality series for 10th off road buggies - fantastic organisation and great quality drivers like Cragg, Bradby, Ellis, Tricky, John Price - the list goes on ;).

Since I've been doing Nationals (2003 I think I did my first) the series has definitely grown quite a lot - to the point that I've only managed to get straight into 2 races (both 4WD), and my wife has only managed to get into one of six events she applied for.
I think for this weekends National I was reserve 25 or so, meaning at least 155 people had applied to race. Great success.

Being the premiere series, and indeed only series which tours the UKs best tracks, there is a great deal of talent and preference is given to the best driver grades - a rule which makes some allowance to keep the series at the top.


Swiftly on to my point - there is a long reserve list at Nationals already, mostly lower drivers who were not good enough to get straight in. Almost everyone has the opportunity to qualify well in regional races and get a good driver grade - which would get them into Nationals.
If anyone remembers the 2005 National at Bury Metro, we had a couple of top International drivers turn up and race, Steenari and Amezcua - these guys simply wouldn't stand a chance of ever racing over here again now.
Similarly, top drivers like Andy Moore and Craig Drescher are capable of A final at the World Championships but can't even get into the National series (Because their off road driver grades are not high enough).

Having top drivers like Moore and Drescher, but also visiting International drivers, would be a big boost in my opinion to the quality and profile of the series. At the moment it won't happen, and the system that is currently in place works well to make it a fair system for gaining National places - but I personally think there could / should be a way for some (possibly a small number, pre-defined) of top drivers that normally wouldn't be able to get in, to some how jump the queue.

Fair enough - I have failed to get an entry to most Nationals this year, and it's been a bit crap to be honest. So I know how it feels. And there are certainly drivers reading this that would get pushed out of the series if a handful of queue-jumpers were allowed places - But I still like the idea and think it would add to the event.



So -what do people think? would it even be possible or fair? Could 5 (lets say) places be 'put aside' for possible top drivers, and who'd decide who qualifies for those places? Does a world champion touring car driver qualify, does a world Champion in Mardaves qualify?:eh?:
And being a points series - do we really want 'guest' drivers throwing spanners in the works? :)


Discuss:

I think it is a good idea and a bad idea. it would be nice to see the like of some of the worlds top drivers race, but it would also stop people that have race hard to get there, from getting an entry.

Maybe an 'exhibition' heat or something like that would be better, and make it for a certain round of the series so that people know when it is going to be.:)

But it would be nice to see them race.

Maybe a yearly one off invitaional organised by the brca.?

Currently there isn't one BIG race for the top drivers - only the F2 and lower drivers. The best drivers have to make do with the euros or some American races (cactus) or the bi-annual Worlds.
It would be cool to have a 2 day BRCA Invitational, with the top National and International drivers invited - then open entry for the rest of the places.
It would work better than allowing the drivers into the National series - but as that's the only race(s) currently available, that's what I focused on.

I rather the sound of that idea, a big one off seasonal invitational would also get the non entered drivers as spectators. Big marque bar and that would be a cracking weekend!!

im looking to do something like this at CML Raceway!

I think the term you are looking for Jimmy is 'wildcard' entrys.

I like the idea. 5 reserved places for wildcard drivers, if no wildcards want in the reserve drivers are called up a week or so in advance.

the 'limit' should be set at 125 (for 2WD) for entry to the event with 5 reserved for wildcard or reserve (as long as wildcard entrys were closed and reserves given plenty of notice)

this happens quite a lot in other forms of motorsport, things like superbikes, supermoto etc... 'local' hero's get entry to the 'world' event at their track etc... they normally do quite well :D

Yeah a one internationsl/invitational is a good idea, but I dont think queue jumping in a National is fair. I'm new to things but the impression I get is there aren't that many races annually, and a lot of people really look forward to an opportunity to race. Take their chance away to allow a few top guys a place and your making your hobby/sport elitist. These guys get plenty of racing in all over the world, whereas Joe Bloggs works his nuts off all year and maybe gets the chance to race at a decent level only 4 or 5 times.

I can see your point, its good to see high profile racers, I just think you'd have to be careful not to be unfair or alienate the real people that keep the scene going.

Power to the common man yeah. Right on baby! :cool:

:o:o:o You been at the Vodka again Jimmy? :D

Yes, for sure john! :D:D
Wildcard! that's the word I was looking for, hehe.

Yeah its a great idea when its a local hero getting a wildcard pop at the big boys, not so hot when the local are getting pushed out of their event to give the wildcard to some hero just passing through. ;)

Why not give the top drivers 5 wildcard places, but on the proviso that the wildcards do not score points for the series.

it would not work you would have to remove them from the finals sorting.

if a wildcard made the A but was removed from the points, the guy who is BQ has no shot of 'improving' on his points because he can't race in the A (where he would have been without the wildcard in there)

Or just allow them to score points

Also as there would be a few extra people the people racing the bottom five people would be on the researve list making the researve list longer and these people dont really support british racing by racing at regionals or going to all the naionals. So it would stop drivers who do want to race at all of them doing so.

Hope that made sence lol im tired.

A

And jimmy who is that on the bike in your avanter???

A

Thats me on my bike, lol.
Supporting british racing means turning up, and there are people who could do a lot for the sport if they were allowed to compete. It could create interest and make the sport grow even more. The fact that lower drivers (like me and you ash) would find it even harder to get in is a shame, but I'd rather race with a bunch of top drivers than 130 jimmys - that would be a bit pants to watch.. :D

Oh what bike have you got???

yea another possablitly is to add another heat because then it will allow the top people to race and people like me and you jimmy.

A:D

Well, not neceserally - since as the series continues to grow, adding even more great drivers (albeit in a limited / guest way) would likely draw in yet more racers (growing the sport is the idea anyway) and push us even further down the list!
It's fine and dandy wanting it to remain possible for us all to race, but that view isn't compatible with wanting the sport (10th off road) to get bigger.

That photo is a few years ago before I hurt my back, it's a santacruz super8.

:o Thats one nice bike. Im more of a cross country person myself Ive got a Giant XTC but your bike is alot nicer than mine. I want it.:D

Sold it a long time ago, I couldn't ride anymore without my back hurting - I still have my mongoose bmx (that I hurt my back on) and my Kona Kula tho.

If it isn't broke don't fix it !!!
We should look at why our Nationals are so popular ???
I for one would love to see Drescher, Moore, Booth, and others running, but why should the next Cragg be pushed out for these big names ???

The only thing would be to do 1 big meeting for the top drivers, just like the pro line and Neo meeting!!!

When i was first racing back in 98 Lee Martin, Darren Bloomfield and Tony Truman to name a couple were those drivers that were happy to get in. Hope you see what im saying.

Other than a big meeting, get to Regionals and support the sport as a whole.

Not sure i agree, i think the best way to get people interested is to get them involved. If they're not getting into events cos there's an elite clique getting priority thats only gonna discourage them. I think the idea of one off invitiational events is the best way to get big names in and allow Joe Public to watch. Not nick Joes own series.

Scale it down, if I'd been looking forward to running regionals all year, changing personal commitments in the hope of getting in, then some sponsored bloke got the nod instead of me cos he was in the area and fancied a blast, I'd be a tad cheesed off.

You just gotta remember that for every wildcard you give out, its taking the place of someone who'd probably get waaaay more out of competing.

Not having a pop, I admire you for constantly looking at ways to improve things, just dont quite agree this time. ;)

Out of interest, why dont they have a one off equivalent of the F3,4 and 5 event at the end of the season for the F1 and 2's?

oh how did you hurt your back jimmy?? :(

A

To be honest and this may annoy some people, the national series is to decide who is the best in the uk so i would prefer to see the likes of Craig D get a place over little johnny. I know little johnny has a right to be there but there has to be a point where common sense prevails.

An invitational sounds an awesome idea too;)

Why dont we have oOple international race.

A

Everyone would like to see the best drivers compete for the Championship, but this wasn't the question.
The question was these drivers competing in one off meetings in place of little Johnny.
If they booked in for the whole series then by all means we should look to fit them in.
I bet Jimmy is loving this now, everybody will have a good case. Perhaps we should move nationals to 12 weekends a year!!!
2wd x 6 you could have 250 drivers same as 4wd x6

Yeah, its a national SERIES. If craig D enters 1 event he's not gonna trouble the overall leaderboard is he. If they want to win the National series cool, they can get their entry in and kick little johnnys butt and no-one will complain. ;)

Dont get me wrong, the few top boys I've seen seem pretty level headed (Cragg's marshalled my car and done a grand job) but its the idea of them cherry picking events when they have no intention of completing the series, pushing out some guy who's had his fingers crossed for a place in the process. Thats what doesn't quite sit right with me.

You can cover the positives of everyone watching the best racers who cant commit to the National series by running an invitational as agreed. If that was anything like as succesful as say the Neo you're laughin! :cool:

I'll stop waffling now :D

yeah man!!! ;)

I appreciate your thoughts mate - and probably a one-off event would be better. But you have to remember the series is one of the best in the world, you just don't get series like this in the USA because the distances are so huge. So right now, the Nationals are the top level in the UK.
What does the so-called 'elite clique' give you? It gives you exposure, it gives sponsors an interest, it brings sponsorship and money and investment into the racing. It means maybe a manufacturer bothers to come to the races, maybe your top F5 gets a free car suddenly - maybe that also filters down to regional and club levels, creating more interest and bringing more racers into the hobby.
Ok - I'm drawing a bit much out of it there, but you can surely see my point. There are plus points above and beyond the visual entertainment of it.


I don't go out of my way exactly to promote 'the hobby' and get new racers involved - but I've had many emails and chats with people who've started racing / re-started because they liked my website. I'm not saying that because I want a medal or somet, I just think that exposure is a good thing.
You get Andy Moore racing at a National - then maybe all those kids who race touring cars will see the light! :D

lol, we talked about that a while ago - sadly I'm too lazy :D

I'm sure with a few of the oOple team (and contributors ;) ) we could sort someting Jimmy :cool:

G

I have seen the light jim!! And enjoying racing again!!!:)

yeah I can see where you're coming from Jimmy, I suppose if there's nothing of a similar level in some countries maybe it would be fair enough to allow a few international top boys in occasionally. Is the touring car scene for example so much bigger that it can draw that level of sponsor and manufacturer involvement? If so, maybe the idea could be tried for a year, see if the pros outweight the cons.

Only concern is that of you have such waiting lists already, then isn't the scene already booming? And the sponsors aren't giving that level of backing yet.

I suppose you dont know till you try, would just need to be wary that to keep people interested you need to keep them involved.

I'm prepared to cede a bit of ground if confronted by reasonable arguments ;)

And yeah, your site's groovy. Without it, and the contacts we've made on here, me and my newbie mates might not be having as much fun as we are!

sorry, I agree with Jimmy here.

also, 120 is the 'max' entrys that are normal, so if you have 125 places plus 5 wildcards that means 5 more 'jonnys' get to race than 'normal'

I know most (proberbly every) 2WD this year is 130 'jonnys' but the BRCA only added the extra 10 to cater for the demand.

the national series is the absolute best series to race in within the UK, why not make sure the best people race?

I know up and coming stars of the future might not get in as 'early' but once they are quick and 'earn' their place through regional series then they will start to get preferance and be well inside the 120 (or 125) cut-off


another note, sponsors follow the big names, thats why Moore and Rheinard got the HotBodies guy over HERE (UK) for the Neo-Race... who knows, some F5 kid might get to keep Rheinards car afterwards because they can't fit it in their luggage on the way home??? what is it really going to cost HB to do that? FAR less than the exposure it would give them

stuff that there no different than anyone else if you cant be bothered to put your entries in on time its your problem,
join the Que

Yea northy come on jimmy that would be ace. Im sure one of the tracks wouldnt mind holding it and it would be good publicity for oople.

A

good idea on somelike like a race of champions though, once a year would be the b++++++s me think's all the top f1 / f2 drivers and possibly some international drivers, then fillin with us bods

so someone like Brian Kinward is over to help out his X-Factory boys should enter all the UK nationals just in case and then drop out of the ones he will not do?

I think the thing Jimmy is trying to promote is this kind of thing that happened at Bury Metro a year or so ago, Jukka and Travis over to try a bit of UK racing, this bumped the profile and exposure of UK nationals quite a bit during the time of this event.

other potential situations are things like BK coming over, Rheinard, Moore, Spashett having a go.

then you would get more distributors at UK nationals, they would see some of the super talented up and coming drivers, possibly provide some assistance to their racing etc etc....

but if they know there coming over they could book in for the ones they need early enough, so as not to bump some poor Joe out, like soory you poor f4 f5 driver but a yank is coming over and we would rather have him than you,i dont think so

Uhmmmm, that is exactly how it currently works carl - the top drivers are given preference.
My 'idea' is that 'other' top drivers who don't comply with current entry rules could also get entry, and limit that to a handful.