Can vintage keep up with a modern car?
 

I have been running my XX at south lakes for a couple of years and I have had some good results but I was wondering if I should upgrade to maybe the new Cougar or an RB5. Not keen on the B4 as everyone has one.

My question is, if I could set my XX up correctly will I be able to compete and win against younger cars or should I ditch the vintage machine and spend lots of wad? Would I be wasting my money?

I think it can compete, especially with a good driver. Does anyone else run a vintage car with more modern machines?

I seem to be remarkably successful in trucks (a minority class admittedly, but with a reasonable local following) campaigning a near 20 year old original RC10T against its own more modern ancestors like the T4 and SC10. At several Bury rounds people have commented that my ancient truck looks more planted than the newer ones, and I too am sure that my skills at the wheel are more a limit than the age of my truck!

Definately as we have a few XXCRs running at our club and they beat the modern stuff.

XXCR Kinwald has the track record at our club for 2WD

Awesome car. The difference I have found myself is you can be more aggressive with the B4 and get away with it.

I have a B4 and XXCR and I enjoy the XXCR more than the B4 and it also beats new kit.

PM SteveB on here for my XX info

I still race my 6-gear gold tub rc10 at EPR and around the south east. The same car I raced when I was a teenager in California in the '80s...

Now to be honest, I'm certianly not winning too many races - but not coming in last either..

for 4wd, I run a modern car (b44), and still come in similarly in the standings - so if you take my driving skills out of the equation - the car doesn't seem to be too too much of a handicap..

I think it's got a whole lot to do with the driver, yet there's no doubt that a modern car could be much faster than the 10 - esp w/ the 6 gear. but hey - I love it nonetheless...

Cheers,
Ty

running vintage has both some advantages and disadvantages over the modern buggies. i run both vintage and modern. depending how old the vintage buggy is you make have to figure out some things to swap on it to help make it more competitive.

on the track you will notice that different areas a vintage buggy will be faster yet other areas it will be slower. now as a driver you should be able to make it work so you can run equal lap times with the modern guys.

the biggest downside is parts. be sure you carry every possible spare that you can because the track most likely wont have what you need if you break it.

the best part is the look on the other racers faces when you beat them driving an antique.

Sounds like a trip to EPR with a XX

Come down to Titchfield as Steve loves his vintage Associated and Losi

You have hit the nail on the head as your comments are spot on.

My vintage was excellent on very low grip surfaces and never lost a club race but on high grip i had to redesign to try at least to get it on a level playing field. The problems are as said getting parts, and in my case as the car is one of a very few ive had to get spares made up. I also found at the petit i broke my car in four races but was going at the same pace as the rest in my heat until it broke so just a bit of work can make a difference.

Funnily enough, I have just bought two procats to test the theory!! :)

Procat No1 - £10.00 bargain from ebay as a parts donor... Complete minus a shell & wing..

Procat No2 - £45.95 from ebay, with loads of spares and in very good nick!!

Will be running modern electrics/cells so should be more or less as quick as the majority, cant wait to see how it goes!!! :thumbsup:

Cool - same here, i've got an RC10 I am re-building, hoping to fit modern brushless & LiPo & give it a go against the B4s etc. Funny as the last time I raced Off road was about ten years ago, with what was then a new Losi XXX, this is virtually still the current Losi 2wd car, yet back then I prefered my old XX that i'd just sold over the new car.... so i'm not suprised the Double X can still cut the mustard.

By the way X313 - I see you are in Northants - where abouts are you intending to race your Procat/s?

Yes :D

I ran an ali tub RC10 at a York indoor regional with lipo/brushless and qualified 3rd and finished 3rd beating an AE team driver with his B4 and other quick guys :wub

Also ran the ProCat with 10 double and ran competativly in A finals at York club meetings :wub

G

Depending on the weather and how well it goes, might give it a try at the mini MAM event on the 14th Feb at Cov, I havent raced one since 1990 so cant wait to give it a try, plus there are some retro heats at Hinckley in the summer months, so will probably take it over there too...

Just wish I still had my old Cat xls too.. they were the days... :wub

Awesome.

I don't find spares much of an issue. I have loads and you can always pick them up on e-bay. Having said that I have problems finding smaller spur gears.

One thing I have noticed. The car under steers on the power. Getting out of the bends as fast as a B4 is tricky. If you go in slower you get monstered from behind and taken out. Not sure how I can dial it out. I want to be able to get the back out under power without it spinning but I haven't yet found a set-up that will do that for me.

I put my XX 10th in round at Worksop last winter, last time it turned a wheel.

That was with a period M-tronics 900VHF ESC, Reedy Sonic motor and old cells.

In the hands of a top driver it's not inconceiveable that a XX could not make a national 'A'.

Maximum front droop & extra lead up front.
Tune it from there.

Awesome. Still got it and running it?

Yeah, sure have. I have a XX, a XXCR and a XXCR-KE, all ready to go.
Maybe at the next Bury indoor meet?

I'm gonna get the RC10 tub running again - it's a weapon :wub

G

Only cause they are built like tanks with the front end!

Just been looking for some photos from when we were running the vintage stuff a few years back, can't find anything online any longer - I'll put some back up tomorrow.

I'd say that as long as you're happy with it, and doing well, no need to change cars. I would keep an eye on the spares market for it, as if that dry's up and you have a major crash, your car could be on the shelf for quite some time.

I upgraded from the TC4 to the 5, simply because I felt that as a shop, I should be running the latest equipment, and although performance wise, I didn't need to do it, the 5 runs a lot better than the 4 ever did, even if I'm now only getting to match and beat it's race results.

Guessing you're wanting a 2wd though if you change, but have you thought about the Yok BD-Max? It's an amazing looking car, and the story is it was seen as a bit of a joke "cheap-end-of-the-market" car, until it started winning races, and now it's been carbon-ed up.

There's some on here isn't there?

G

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/yorkvintage/ :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Those were the days :cry:

http://www.northernracer.com/posted/160.jpg

http://www.northernracer.com/posted/159.jpg

Brilliant (& some amusing:D) pictures! Really getting me excited about running in some of these vintage meets, hopefully during this year :thumbsup:

Love the pic of the XXCR. Reminds me I need to send a XX shell to Blitzboy

The phrase those were the days matches that picture of the old optimas and the like sooo much .

I was getting all misty eyed. Back then you were good if you hadnt dumped by the 5 minutes gone.

Ps any one else here remember the old Queensferry club under the Forth road bridge ?

Thats were it all started for me circa 1988 ish.

Ps I get whupped week after week with a chap with a xxcr at our club and i run a B44.

I may just nick my mates Lwb optima for one of the races.

Not sure if i'd class a Losi XX as vintage really ( as far as performance goes ), as although technically it came out in '93 it had a looong shelf life and was quite capable of winning big even after the XXX came out. I think it was fair to say the XX was one of 'The next Generation' of buggies then, and as is proven now, still a very capable buggy even today.

To me, Vintage is pre-93-ish...so no XX's, B2's, Cougar & CAT 2000's etc etc. These buggies are still quite capable of mixing with todays buggies, especially at club level and even Regional level - as long as you have spares !

For example i ran a Traxxas TRX1, Lazer ZX and Top Force at Caldicots Vintage series last year, and every other buggy was pre-93-ish... original RC10's, Optima Mids, JRX Pro etc etc. As good as they were, they are all a step down in performance i feel from the post '93-ish buggies. Ok Craig Harris hustled a TRX1 round with a 7.5 at an amazing pace, but he could hustle a wheeled brick around pretty quick... :lol:

And yes i suppose you could add another 'Generation' cut-off point of around pre '84-ish to take into account Rough Riders, Bolink Diggers, Mardave Apache's, Kyosho Scorpions etc etc...

Sorry, just my own rablings & thoughts on the subject, no offence meant to anyone with more modern 'vintage' buggies - i have plenty of those too... :blush: :)

Optimas are legend...:thumbsup:

I lent my friend an old Salute to run at EPR last Sunday for the winter series race. Hey - he'd never raced before and he wasn't eactly on the pace - but the old 23 year old car did pretty well, knocks and all! Didn't technically even come in last...

It's just so stable (translation: slow and heavy) that it just goes where it's pointed - great for a beginner.;) And the full-width front bumper got a workout too...

It's such a tremendously complex car though - must have 3x the parts count of a modern 4wd. not to mention the individual chain links...

Cheers,
Ty

http://www.oople.com/forums/picture....&pictureid=283

Took my Cat xls/Procat hybrid for a quick lap of the PDA on Wednesday night....:)

Managed to land it nose first into the table top on the first lap and then decided to wind my neck back in and switch to my b4 before I broke it...

Was still pretty quick, but needs a bit more fine tuning before I run it again.... (and some new elastic bands!)

Use actual elastic bands ;)

G

Already sourced! 1 box of size 64 rubber bands now in my pit box! :D

The Procat is still a top vintage racer. Not much out there (pre 1990) that will keep up with it or be as reliable as it. My car happily runs a 12 turn every day of the week.

Agreed, mine is running a Novak 6.5L brushless systen & Lipo and no problems at all.. needs the suspension setting up so it handles a bit better, but fast and seems reliable..

Just a new shell and some black wheels and its ready to go.. :)

I can think of only one other car that can keep with it. The Lazer ZX, but do agree with you the Procat is still a designers wet dream. Brilliantly thought out and simple ideas to stop breakages made this a great car.

Hi x313 how did you get on with your Procat? I'm trying mine out at Stotfold. Check out my thread "Procat for Li-Fe". Let's exchange tips to get these great cars competing again. Luke

I race my Procat on dirt and much of the time it can get a liitle loose.
The front one ways were swapped out for solid drive shafts. The biggest issue with the Procats front trans is it coming loose. Set up right you'll have little trouble. I only run Bud's orange belts and they really do make a difference. Quiet and efficient!
Luckily I had access to alloy diff outdrives, alloy trans housings and a few other odds and ends.
The standard rear shock tower is terribly soggy. I made up a fiberglass plate to stiffen things up in the rear.
Bosscat rear hangers with threaded rod right the way through with a washer and nut at each end. This makes a difference especisly if the track you drive has jumps.
There's plenty of other tips but these are eccentials.

Good stuff. Thanks Jason (did you get my pm?) I remember the rear alloy trans housing cost a packet but really strengthened the whole gearbox and soaked up the motor heat. Likewise I've switched back to the alloy z-bracket because it's stronger. Fibre-Lyte make all the carbon towers so these are readily available. Wish I had the Procat front super diff (with the SE kit?) but the MMS nylon diff I'm using is still way better than the stock diff. Can you get orange belts for the rear too? I also saw Raul's custom alloy pulleys but couldn't find the right part number. It looks like they would need machining.

I didn't want to mess it up the car but I finally brought myself to race it properly. I just hope it's dry at the track because I hate cleaning it!

I also like to keep the drive train as free from debri's as possible. Both the undertray and top lexan cover is sealed up with double sided foam tape to keep rocks and dust out of the sensitive drive parts.

Wish I had a spare Procat bumper. I need one myself. :cry:

I finished 3rd in the york 540 championship, with a cat 2000:)