Any truth in this rumour?
 

Quote on their club section from Scott Westbury, Chairman of Bedfordshire RC Model Car Club

"Interesting to hear through the grapevine that the BRCA are looking at dropping the AMBrc system as their system of choice - so even the big boys realise they have been paying through the nose for what really is just a little circuit board and some clever chips all wrapped up with wires. :thumbsup: "

Anyone else heard this one?

it is true the brca were tasked to look at alternative lap counting systems yes

What alternatives did they look at?

It will be very hard with to move across unless something can be found which works with what drivers and clubs already have. no one likes to have to spend alot money on this sort of thing, but the only thing that's worse is being told its now no longer to be used.

i guess i laps and the system being developed im my shed its only £1000 not £4000 like amb :P

This would be all well and good if it were a practical way forwards, but the reality is that there are a considerable number of clubs who currently own AMBrc systems, who having payed out would continue to use the system, and there must be thousands or racers who have invested in compatable transponders. So for this to be really viable, any new system would need to be compatable with current PT's, (AMB or clone) as a minimum, if it were the case that the BRCA had a new 'system of choice', and it was not compatible then there would be a lot of racers with expensive, redundant PT's.. I think they would be equally as unhappy with the sittuation then as clubs are now with the expense.

But then, new pt's might be a fiver and decoders at only a tenner - to hell with the expense!

The Bedford club who made the quote are using something called I-lap (I think), it's an overhead sensor based system that uses a sensor inside the clear window of the car and is picked up when the car goes underneath a "bridge". I think the driver has to cough up £35 for one of the units or rent one off the club for a couple of quid a night. Personally, I can't see many people spending their hard earned £35 to race there once a week especially as it would be useless anywhere else. You might as well buy yourself a PT and be able to race at 90 per cent of the tracks in the country. :thumbsup:

I would expect that there will be a number of PT's changing hands shortly - I would think at a lesser price than they have been selling for recently on our favorite auction site. The difference in cost between a PT which is compatible at all BRCA events and a high number of clubs and that of one which isn't, is unfortunately not enough for the individual racer. For the club, the recieving equipment for I-Laps is fairly cheap (compared to an AMB decoder), but there are limitations which are making it of a much less user friendly system than the AMBrc currently is. In short, unless you have a club full of racers dedicated to that one club alone, then it will still be an extra expense rather than an alternative.
Why can't MRT produce a system that will work with their clones? Anybody know the facts?

they had something similar at Newbury before they invested in an AMB system.
it seemed to work OK most of the time, frustrating when it didn't though
never ever really have a prob when running the AMB stuff

think that is the plan, but not sure on timescales

I think the point here is that this would be a system for the BRCA nationals. Not a club system, one owned by the BRCA, kept by them and travels to all nationals.
Which means it doesn't need to be compatible with anything at all. They turn up before the national, set their system up in place of the clubs one (which is how it always used to be anyway), issue their transponders as handouts, run the event then pack up.

The racer does not have to buy or rent anything. All they do is use the system as a handout.
The only 'downside' is that your PT is pointless at a national so you'll have to use the handout like all the paupers who can't afford PTs!

so basically its rubbish then :thumbdown:

Si, Your signature sums up what I think to that principle.... Pre-historic..

Would be a step backwards for sure, rushing around to get a transponder before your race, then back in after your race, at the same time they want you out marshalling. :thumbdown:

Next we'll be putting Nicads back in our cars and brushed motors so we have even less time between races and more to do..

Are there any BRCA commitee members on here who can advise what progression has been made with regards looking at new systems, compatabillity, commonallity etc. etc..?

I can't believe they would change for a different system that wouldn't work with an amb transponder :confused:

That depends. If you think about it from the point of view of the official timekeeper there are a number of advantages. Critically they maintain complete control over all the timing systems and transponders so can insure each part works perfectly.

Its not exactly unusual - lots of sports do lap timing solely with hand out transponders - even professional motorsport where systems are removed for the cars after each race to avoid tampering. We are odd in that we have and allow PT use.

As for the handing over transponders part - some people already have to do this, so its only fair. I have a PT myself but at the recent Bury indoor series I've been running two classes and using a handout in Truck. I agree its a faff, but all it does it put me on a level footing with those who haven't paid for expensive PT's. I'm not being penalised, I've just had an unfair advantage removed.

Personally I think PT's should be compulsory at National level. It makes life a whole lot simpler and would speed up the time in between rounds, making the day end a little sooner (especially Sunday). Most of the people at a National event have travelled a fair way to get there, getting home on the Sunday after is a nightmare at best so any time saved would be welcomed by all. I can't see why they would want to change to anything else that isn't compatible with the AMB.

Clubs purchasing anything else are surely alienating themselves and would struggle to get anyone apart from a few hard-core members to attend their meetings.

In the case of the Bedford club with the I-lap system, they are building an off-road track that would be really welcomed in the area as we need more tracks on the regional map but by running this system they would charge everyone who entered a couple of quid to rent one of their units to race there, or you could of course pay the £35 to race there once a year. It saves the club some initial money but it doesn't really save the user in the long run :thumbdown:

no one said they are, fact is they were tasked to look at other systems. Chris hardisty, chairman of the brca, explained the outcome at the main brca agm.

Which was?

i can not fully rember, so instead ill advise you to email the chairman for a direct answer.

I know that the BRCA are looking at other options, but I dont know about "dropping AMB as their choice timing system".

Its always healthy to look around...

No more handing the car to the missus after the race has finished and going straight from the rostrum to my marshall point then. ("Hold it by the shock tower then if you don't want to get your hands dirty!")

I couldn't go back to hand outs again :(

Just been looking at this I-Laps system that's been mentioned.

The main problem I see is that the Transponder has to have a clear view of the Loop, I.E. it must be located so it can see out a clear windscreen.

See this link:
http://www.rclapcounter.com/page2/page2.html

A rumour i heard (& i must emphasise the fact it is merely rumour at this stage) was that a timing system was being looked at that is low cost & is loosely based on shop security systems.. i.e the security tag you have on your CD's, clothes etc that the sales assistant removes at the till would be adapted into a transponder you stick into your car & the loop that you go through at the door that normally goes off if the tag goes past would be adapted into a timing loop. This does mean though as the technology already exists & is in use pretty much everywhere in shops it would be low cost & transponders would potentially cost peanuts & clubs could sell a transponder to members for something like £1 a time & there is almost a limitless number of transponders - similar technology has been adapted as vehicle tagging systems (Datatag).

There is also the AMBit system on the horizon - don't know a lot about it other than what i've read on the website & heard that it may become the norm by the end of the year. but to quote...

[QUOTE]indications were that we were still some way off finding a viable alternative to AMB. [/QUOTE]

Any new system (regardless of what it is) i know will no doubt be lower cost which will mean that clubs & drivers who have spent a fortune on trasnponders & older / current timing systems will feel put out & feel they have to spend again & dip into their pockets, however it's progress - are you browsing this site using a 486 or did you upgrade when it got old & costly to repair because parts were getting rare?? think how much games consoles cost these days & then look at what they cost in the 80's & then consider how much technology has advanced!! Plus any new system would i imagine be very accurate with lap times counted to the .000th of a second, where older AMB systems i beleive can't go that low.. RC probably wouldn't need that level of accuracy, but it would be there if needed.

Or those people like myself who have a PT (from 1/8th rallycross days) but choose not to use it as they believe it is a disadvantage!

Only you :) ....

Are you on Crack? :bored:

You pay £££ for something, then don't bother using it 'cos it's a disadvantage, but don't sell it, yet complain everywhere else (in between the K-Love) how little money you have to spend on racing......

I'll have it Rog?

I-Lap
 

Lets face it, apart from the cost there's nothing wrong with the current system. I don't to what degree the current system is copyrighted but I'm sure MRT are working on somthing. A cheap repro of the MyLaps system is the Holy Grail of electronics so its only a matter of time before it happens.

WOW, I didn't need glasses to read this one :lol:

you should wear them for driving though from what i've seen!! :p:lol:

I have heard though, because the Ilap system works on an Infra-red system & not microwave radio or whatever other witchcraft the more traditional transponders work on, that ILap is no good for outdoor track use when there is bright sunshine (because the sunshine screws up the signals between the car & the loop) or if the start line is situated on a sun trap, or it only works well indoors. Can anyone confirm this?

Plus i can't imagine Ilap being much use for off-road use - think about it, you are following a car & it sprays up a big rooster tail & coats your car in crud or if a layer of thick dust coats the innards of the car after being sprayed from the tyres.. surely as the Ilap system works from infra-red light, if that light gets blocked out your car will not register as you cross the loop.

Isn't AMB now MyLAPS due to a buy out / merger?

LOL, you're probably right judging by my recent results :lol:

........and you need them next time you enter a model shop. The last time you went in you picked up a madrat by mistake (surely it was a mistake?) :p

Not sure on the exact ruling but I was under the impression that at BRCA sanctioned events you need three numbers on the car, one of which has to be on the front window. That would make the I-lap sensor very awkward to use wouldn't it?. Yes, as has been said, you can drill holes in your body and mount it under there but who wants to do that to their newly painted shell?

That's quite a big 'apart from', though, isn't it?

I know it doesn't matter a great deal to racers at the nat level who are likely to be more willing/able to invest cash in AMB kit, but if the BRCA can encourage alternative lap counters that actually work I'm all for it. The AMB systems aren't just a 'bit' expensive, they're genuinely ludicrous, and a massive cost drag for clubs. Personally I would like to see a bit of real competition for them, and that's not going to happen if every time someone tries an alternative everyone complains that their PTs don't work.

As you say, a cheap copy of the AMB system would be great, but if that's somehow not possible I'm all for the BRCA supporting alternatives.

I would say that AMB have the patents well established for the technology so its going to be a swine to copy but you never know.

i also read somewhere that another option was to leave an unpainted square on your roof (so it looks like an open top or a clear glass sunroof) but as you say BRCA rulings would make this awkward, after all the BRCA rules say the car must be painted apart from the more usual windows - the only other thing you can leave unpainted is a wing. I suppose you could mask out a sunroof & use that special tinting paint that you can use to turn clear windows into tinted windows (but wouldn't be allowed on the windows themselves at a BRCA event), this would get past the "shells must be painted" rule as you have applied paint to the roof, but this seems a bit of a faff plus if 1 track on the BRCA nationals used Ilaps it would put a real spanner in the works with regards the regulations, plus again it would impede the light.

it would be no problem for me, i would just point the sensor in the car to fire through the hole where i usually pin my handout!!! lol