Start procedure
 

I want to see what your opinion on the start procedure, line start or staggered.

You can explain as well if you want!!!
I think line starts worked well last year, but after the first round it seemed not as good, perhaps our series has become more competitive and staggered would work better??? What do you think???

I voted for staggered start. I think as our series is now much more competetive, this makes it more fair!!!

personally i think we should start our races as u would do the finals. all lined up 10 sec count down and go! if u have 8 cars in a heat with 4 rounds u would start on the front of the grid one round. the next round 2nd row 3rd round 3rd row and 4th round 4tt theres are 4 comvbos and everyone would start on each row at some point in qualy. i like the way in qualifying you are still trying to catch the person in front so keeps racing all the way through the run just my 2 pence

ready teady go :woot:

Ok cool, so vote.....

wots the point on voting its an awesome idea skip the vote :lol: ill do the griding up at the next meeting :thumbsup: u know it makes sense :p

Staggered start is looking favorite on the vote though!!!

:( i recon for one meeting we should try it :D if it all goes to pot then go back to staggered :lol:

cant u put grid start as an option??

was about to sudgest mike/grants idea as a change. think it could really work. i love the line starts but feel it makes or breaks a race before it has even started. if we cant have a full grided start like said previous then id go for staggers

Just checked cant change the poll, sorry, a good idea though, people that read this should comment about Grants idea and then we will get some idea of peoples opinion.

I think Grants idea is good, staggered starts is what I voted for.
But the line starts are good for carnage:drool:

Line Starts all the way for me but I do concede that perhaps the placement of the start line needs some consideration.
TBH - I know that line-start fans are in the minority but hey, who said we should live in a democracy:woot:

In all seriousness, if you're gonna run staggered starts, you need a ref to ensure that the faster cars get called through because otherwise whats the point of them?

Without refs, many racers feel the urge to 'race' each other even on staggered starts and so this 'perceived' advantage goes out of the window.

Yes, the first corner can be carnage with line starts but if you don't train people in the art of the line start, is it any wonder that the finals get so messy ??

I'm old skool - Line starts all the way:thumbsup::thumbsup:

PS - No, I'm not going to ref either


PPS - I'll turn up regardless of start procedure - whatever is easiest / best for the club is fine by me but my pref is for Line Starts

I like Grant's idea:thumbsup:

Firstly, everything DC said is correct. I checked my opening lap time against others and in some cases I was losing around 7 seconds in one lap which when you consider how competitive the last meeting was (which is a very good thing :thumbsup:) it makes quite a difference BUT it is fun to go back to oldskool and because of this I think giving Grants idea a go could be the answer and give us the best of both!!

I did however vote stagger starts because that is the best option of those available.

As one of the EPR offcials who has to look at the big picture, I am hapt to consider a four row line start but we would almost definitely have to start on the main straight and this would require someone from the club doing this job ALL DAY! I am not sure we have someone available or ask a responsible volunteer to do this...

Lets put it this way, with out current two row line start system, lots of the racers cant remember what number they are and if they are on the front or back row - what would it be like with a four row grid?

If we do run a four row line start grid start, potentially people could argue that they are eight metres (or so) behind the guys on the front and already at a disadvantage...

I'd like to see staggered starts, quickest car from previous heat first etc
I watched the line starts last time and there was carnage in some of them at the first corner.

As many of you well know I was dead against Line Starts when we were persuaded to try them a couple of winters ago but as the meetings have passed I and many others have got used to the methodology and the way that you have to approach your opportunities whether you are on the front or the rear line!

I also think that the structure of the heats and the numbers of new drivers, both new to EPR and the hobby generally, may well have been contributing factors during the first meeting. As Matt has said elsewhere, drivers will be seeded for the next meeting, primarily based on their BRCA formula for the 2010 season.

However, in the interests of fairness to all, but on the basis of it only being a trial, I've voted for Staggered Starts.

I'm with Matt on the rotating 4 line start idea. Having spent much time over recent winters re-arranging drivers who still seem unable to grasp the idea of the rotating two line starts, I think four lines would be a logistical nightmare and a full time job!
Unless we've got any volunteers to give up their days racing to run the Start Line? DC, Grant?
Also space would be an issue and the main straight would be the only option and this would once again open up the possibility of the traditional first corner pile much the same as the finals!

all fair points guys! i was kinda getting at starting on the straight and hopefully this would help a few ppl practice starts to the finals and be a bit more considerate to the ppl around them :D
i would quite happily volunter for the job of gridding up just as long as everyone does have a number on their car :lol: or another option the marshal closest to the main straight could line them up after he/she has marshaled.
i think this could be the way forward bit of space around urself when u start and still racing the ppl around u.

I am not sure this will work though, because your time doesnt start till you cross the loop for the first time, this could still lead to a reckless start.

surely line starts are on the basis when the buzzer goes ur time starts? wot happens with the timing in the finals when u start on the main straight?

In qualifying your time starts when you cross the loop. In the finals the time starts when the buzzer sounds and when you cross the loop it registers your car and what position you are in, then when 5 min is up you are finished when you cross the loop.

So I suppose in line starts we didnt have to go at it like a race, we could have waited a second or 2 as your time didnt start till you crossed the loop, the downside is if you were a fast driver would be traffic.

Are you sure? Whats the point of line starts if you are not racing for position all the way through the run? I'm pretty sure the time starts on the buzzer so there is no point waiting...

I have to say i do like the racing and knowing your position with line starts, but its very difficult to have consistent starts, especially if you have a couple of jumps straight after the line and a range of driver ability.

I'm also confused as to whether you are supposed to let a faster car through in qulaifying? or is it a race? If it is qualifying then your point about needing a referee for stagger start qualifying should stand for line starts Andy?

I'll attend the meetings no matter what the choice becuase i enjoy the track but i think for me Staggers have to be the fairest way.

No I am not sure, that's a good point. We will have to see how the computer was set or how it can be set. If it is set for everyones time to start on the buzzer then Grant's idea can be used!!! Provided he lines all the cars up every race!!!:p
As for the rest of your points, I think all of these would have to be discussed, but all good points:thumbsup:

I was told that your time starts when the buzzer goes...

If this is true I was wrong.......doh:blush:

its ok dc we understand u cant help it :p

Aw thanks mate:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

In staggered starts, your individual clock starts when you hit the loop for the first time, (ignoring late starts etc, then a different set of mathematical calculations kick in).
In line starts (or as some call them - mass starts), its the same as finals, buzzer goes, clock starts for all.
As I say, i am ignoring all the masses of complicated parameters behind the scene, so hopefully my simple statement clarifies it for you.:confused::confused:

With a line start (or grid) the clock starts on the buzzer - hanging back will only lose you time!

so wots the verdict matt/steve can we do grid starts? i think the marshal closest to the main straight should grid them up either b4 or after they have marshaled :thumbsup: if not i will do it ;)

Steve and I will need to have a chat I think - maybe we can make a second grid or come up with four lines (two cars on each) under the rostrum which would make it closer to scrutineering.

This is important as the person in race control needs to make sure everything is OK with the right number of cars on the grid, etc before starting the computer.

if grid starts are gonna be used for qualifiying then the heats needs to be sorted more persise for driving talent and who would decided who number 1 and who number 10 would be it seems pretty stupid to me staggerd is the only way for qualifying in my opinon.

as for late starters to the staggerd system goes they are the cleverest drivers out there by creating some space not only for the guy who went off last but also the other 9 cars in front cos its gives everybody more of a chance to spread out.

stu

Lots of issues here me thinks!
But hopefully nothing that we can't resolve quickly and increase the driving experience at future rounds of the EPR Winter Warmer series:thumbsup:

As we've both said before the heats WILL BE seeded for the next round of the Winter Warmer based on your newly published BRCA Formula for 2010.

Stuart's is a valid point, how do you decide who is number one in any particular heat and who is number 10, formula + championship position?

The four line grid ONLY works if we put eight cars in each heat, with the increasing numbers attending the Winter Warmer series 10 car heats are increasingly more likely to reduce the amount of heats and time taken for qualifying especially as the days will be shorter when the clocks go back tonight! Ten cars cannot obviously be fairly rotated around four rounds of qualifying!

We can not rely on a marshal forming up any potential grid start, we now have a vast spread of abilities attending the championship and it's very early days in some drivers 'careers' and it's not fair to put this responsibility on these individuals:thumbdown:!

As DC quite rightly pointed out if we grid cars up on the main straight there's plenty of opportunity for individuals to come a cropper before they get to the timing loop, whether it be self-inflicted or assisted, we all know it happens, you only have to look at the finals:woot:

As Matt has said, we will discuss before next weekend but would personally think that single line, staggered starts would be the simplest and quickest solution. Guess we might have to use more than one line if we get more than about 6 Short Course/Stadium trucks!

Alot of interesting comments which is good to see. :thumbsup: