Engine Choice
 

Looking at engines for 1/8 buggy but getting bewildered b the choice/cost! I assume it's 0.21 engines which I need, but which to go for:

1. Are any pull start options reasonably good/powerful enough? Would it mean I don't have to shell out on a starter box?

2. What is out there that's competitive and comes as an engine/exhaust/manifold combo for a reasonable price? Fine with none pull start for this question!

3. Are they all a universal fit or might I struggle to fit them to an 801x?

Cheers guys!:thumbsup:

1. Not really. Not if you want similar performance (almost :woot:) as your electric. It would mean a starter box isn't needed, but pullstarts break all the time, and one-way bearings fail regularly. These aren't cheap either, so after a very short amount of time you'll have spent the amount it would have cost to buy a starter box in the first place.

2. It depends on what 'reasonable price' means. If I were you, I'd have a look at the RB K9 engine. It's RRP is £199.99 and performance wise, it's meant to be in between an S9 and a WS9. Pipes and stuff are on top of though...

3. They are universal fitting so they'll fit in your 801.

4. Why do you want nitro now? The whole point of electric is that it's the future, and we're moving from nitro to electric, not the other way around!

Depends on how competitive you want to be.

To be up there you'll need £300 for your engine. With one of that price you buy once and it will last you a few years.

You'll need a starter box. You can get SMD starter boxes for as little as £25 posted in the for sale section on many RC Forums.

Hello Dave I was racing at NRS @ NNRC the other week when you where there. I dont think you need to spend £300 on a motor to be competitive and you can trash a £300 motor just as quick as £70 one if you dont know what you're doing.

I'd forget pull start and get a starter box for 1. It is indeed .21 you're looking at the Sirio 3 port motor is a little cracker for about £120 or an RB H9 (5 port) is also a belter for about £175.

I've run RB's for a while S3's WS7's S7's and now just got a K9 which seems very good but isnt Novarossi made like the rest of their line so will have to see how well it lasts. Perfomance wise its not as smooth as a C6 nor as good on fuel so far (but we'll see as I tune the performance). I run an RB pipe the 2045 which is the best alround performer / mpg, but RB pipes are very expensive now for what they are imo. Quite a few people running Jammin JP4 pipes with RB's you also need to consider if the pipe will fit the car right, my Mugen MBX6 needs a tighter bend header or it wont fit in the car.

Dont overlook the clutch either as thats also vital for good performance. RB's like a late engagement (1.1mm springs) otherwise they struggle off the bottom killing performance.

Motors I'd look at if I was in the market from cheap to dear
Picco P3 Basic £75
Sirio CL3B £120
Novarossi NR21R £125
RB H9 £175
RB S9 £200
Reedy 121VR £250
Novarossi Plus 4 £250
RB WS9 £290
RB B9 £340

PS Just because you pay £300 for a motor doesnt mean you cant turn it to scrap in 5mins with the wrong tune :blush:

With 2000 plus posts I'd be lead to believe he's a competent driver, and have a good head on his shoulders to find out how to tune an engine.

Thats the only reason that I suggested the £300 motor.

Do not over look any OS lasts for years especially the Speed

The orion US spec is an amazing engine, so much power through out the whole rev range. The only pipe i truly reccomend is the Sirio 2013 as this pipe is the bo!!ox.

Dave, the os speed is easy to tune and holds it well (v little fiddling anywhere) also super fast.. Thats what i used to run and would recommend it to anyone!!:thumbsup:

There are no engine and pipe combo deals, but the pipes are universal fitting so don't worry.

I have gone for the NN21R with Jammin JP-4 pipe, I believe until I am confident I will tune the engine so it won't die, im not shelling out anymore than this.... but I also hear that I don't need to, as the NN21R puts out the performance too!

I am not getting rid of my electric, but in the 6 meetings I have now done I have competed against a grand total of 1 other electric car. That's across 5 championships at 4 different tracks from Sutton nr Birmingham to Preston. I am not convinced electric is really taking off over here and I have no idea how well I'm really doing against people using nitro cars because they are so different!

That's why I wouldn't mind a nitro too!

Good logic but most of those 2000 posts are asking dumbass questions precisely because I don't have a good head on my shoulders :lol:

How easy is it to kill them from mistuning?

I guess Ideally I am after an engine which is relatively simple to run in and tune for mixture, where I won't be retunibg it at every track, which is fairly quick without needing to be stonking, for as good a money as possible. I would probably buy new simply because I usually do plus know to little of nitro to really see a bad deal/worn engine!

OS speed sounds like it fits the bill at a cost, maybe the NN21R is a better option for me right now though, and any other suggestions welcomed!!

Run the car too lean and it could go quite soon, how soon, well, how long is a (relatively short) piece of string. But your best not risking it.

I have been given some pointers, im going for a 30% fuel as I believe it may be easier to tune, and more powerful as well as running cooler. If you sit the car ticking over for 30seconds and accelerate it should splutter then go, if not its too lean - richen it.... in a nutshell.

But you will need to adjust tuning by 2-5minutes of a turn depending on the climate. As air density in the UK is so different one day to the next - you'll know about this with your Audi S3, Nissan 350Z - feels quicker on a cool day, thats cos it is - dense air leans out the mixture and combusts better. We have no knock sensors to sort it on an 1/8th though. Just judgement and a weapon (screwdriver).

Ha ha ha PMSL

It can be easy to kill an engine, but new engines nowa days will let you know when they are too lean and anyone at the track will help you out to let you know what you need to listen for.

30% will only give you more power because you can lean the engine out a bit more with the such properties of more % of nitro the more it will cool an engine down.

25% will be ample for any Club or B Drive driver. Don't forget you've got to pay for your engines.

Regards Tuning an engine.

You get your top end right first before you do the bottom end, that's to have a fair mist of smoke coming out upto top revs.

Your bottom end needs to be tuned so when you come off of full throttle. You are back on tick over right away, no waiting 6 seconds. If you need it rich then make it take 1 second to come down to true tick over.

Do not run your engine rich. This does the same amount of damage as a lean engine. It is a myth that a rich engine will last you years, you ware the liner out with the compressed fuel being forced between the piston and liner before its ignited.

I've had the same, believe me it's taking off! It always needs someone at the forefront to let everyone know about it. I have been the only electric running all season, and have shared no races whatsoever with other electrics. However, at my club there are half a dozen people who are now either piecing conversions together, or have them ready now!

Doubting I can bring myself to go expensive first off engine wise, in case I screw up! With that in mind from Reading around the NN21R and Sirio CL3 seem good options, how murdered will I get by the quickest cars if I use one if these? Is one clearly better than the other?

Who may stock the sirio 2013 pipe, can't find them in many places?

Chris, what made you go for the Jammin pipe?

Dave,

I've just run a RB K9 in for one of our top nitro lads. I've done a bit of a report on it on another forum (if you cannot find it just pm me) this engine is a little flyer and I believe that you'll be able to get them as little as £150.

I was shocked about this engine as RB had sent out for a budget engine for their range. From where we have thought it was made,we thought it was going to be a pig in a poke. How wrong we was. RB have come up with a great budget race engine, I would not class it as a budget engine that the young lads just chuck in to have a bash down the local park with, this is a full blown race engine.

Put a JP4 pipe on it and you'll be good for top end racing.

tim

The CL3B is a really good engine, and frugal on fuel. It may not be as stupidly fast as a C6 or something, but when I had mine, it was as quick down the straight and poky out of the corners as most other engines. Also give the CL7B (non-STI) a look. Think CL3B but with more power, it's also not really expensive and has been really easy to tune (my brother has one in his truggy - an TRF801XT - so it'll definately fit too!).

Other than those, an RB K9 as Mallet said and I mentioned earlier.

I'll let you know my thoughts on the NN21R, as long as my runny nose doesn't develop I'll have my 8th built tomorrow and run on Sunday.

I chose the JP-4 pipe for a few reasons, firstly it is hardcoat so the Nitro fuel won't stain it like it can on polished. It is a beefy alloy, so it is a little stronger against denting. It has a CNC shoulder to the exit pipe to further strengthen it against knocks, and finally - for the price I couldn't knock it. As for performance I believe it is great for top end, and am yet to see, ive got a lot of learning to do with this Nitro mallarky! But so far I have been astounded at just how much advise is available and the quality of that advice, you just need to ask the right people.

The K9 has been designed with the characteristics of a C6 look at the porting of the K9 liner

B9 on the left K9 on the right
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q.../RBB9K9020.jpg

The B9 liner is the same liner as the C6

If anyone does need help with nitro then just ask I'll kindly help you out.

Tim

I'll try to help as much as I can too. If I remember correctly, the K9 was designed as a cross between the C6 and WS9.

Cheers all, it's much appreciated!! Will look at all the suggested engines!

Is this your first taste of 8th Chris? Sure you'll enjoy it, I've been loving running the electric one!

Yeh mate, first timer - newby - etc etc. Looking forward to it.

Has anyone any experience with the P3XS?

Is there anywhere that does rebuild services by the way?

I'm guessing that's a Picco? They usually go well, and are fast, but from previous experience (both mine and others), they don't tend to last that long, particularly in comparison to other top brands like RB.

It's a Novarossi, a shop I trust have suggested it, but it's not been mentioned here or elsewhere where I've asked!?

It is the starting point in the Nova off road 21 range.

I still will recommend an OS, but that K9 is a good lump and you could get 2 for the price of an OS.

The P3XS is a bit soft in the peformace stakes. The P5XS is alot better and as fast as most of the newer engines. The new range of GO engines look good with their coated cranks etc and start at around £130 +. How much are you wanting to spend and are your a regular A finalist as it's then easier to recomend an engine.

Well I thunk around £170/£180 would be my upper limit right now, any more and the risk of me killing it's a bit high. With my electric 8th I've been A final at BCL/Nitrocross/NRS level if racing, I'd like a chance if keeping that up!

I'm also new to 1/8 nitro, still need experience with setting the needles and what clutch stuff to use. I already got the thing a year ago, but timewise I've only got to spend 4 days on it so far :wtf:

When I 1st started I got a budget motor with it, a Picco P3 basic. Cheapest thing you can get, since I figured better to learn (and error) with this thing than a motor I actually care about. At the track I was triing some things since it didnt accelerate like it should (it would stop for a second but keep going afterwards). Some guy offered to help me and about 10 minutes later the motor was destroyed. :bored:

Still dunno if the motor sucked to much or that they guy offering to help was a bit to ambitious on the needles.

Anyway after that I got a 2nd hand RB WS7II, and I know 2nd hand nitro is a risk, but it was cheap and it still passed the drop test :thumbsup:(holding the cranckshaft and letting the cilinder drop. It should stop under compression when it's still good or atleast hold a couple seconds on compression)

The thingy runs fine for now. But got a old model RB S7 as backup.

So what I've learned so far is, don't let anyone work on your engine unless you know who they are and that they know there stuff. Also many modelshops will have older models of competition engines that they will let you have at a good discount. If you're new at this it won't matter if you've got a '06 or '07 spec motor.

Regards a clutch set up I'd go:-

If its a tight twisty track you are going on, then I would suggest that you use 2 carbon and 1 ali clutch set up.
If its got a lot of long fast straights then I'd put an Ali clutch set up in,
but if its a mixture of the 2 then 2 ali and 1 carbon would be the best to go for.
If its a loose track then go all carbon.

This is the new Go engine for £140 http://www.lstshop.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2873&osCsid=bb8cb0525 c7d0f7ee95e1de0fddcbcc2
With the cash you have left over you could get a good pipe.

Ran the NN21R at NNRC today, ran it in - didn't need heat gun, on Byron 30%. I got through about a litre to a litre.5 of fuel, and on factory settings its actually very close, ive turned the high end needle to lean it out by 1/8th and if anything - it may not have needed it and I did it only as it felt wrong, completely wrong, that the engine was so damn easy to get going well!!! ha ha.

Loved running 8th, can't wait to race it as today was a bash day (ideal for engine running in). I actually feel this class isn't as complicated now as I thought it would be before I tried it, thoroughly enjoyed it.

You cannot beat getting high on nitro :woot::woot::thumbsup:

Glad you have got bitten by the nitro bug :thumbsup:

Tim

Cheers Tim, looking forward to using it in anger next! If anyone is reading this and is tempted, but worried about complexities of running in, tuning, etc, don't be worried, its all quite straight forward to my relief!