Considering starting racing.....help!!!!
 

Hi

Today i was down at the yorcc meeting down at blyth, as it is two minutes from my house, and i have got the buzz to get out there and start racing myself.

I was wondering what i would need just to start off racing and get a grip for it before i start getting competitive.

I Have been looking round and also asking questions while i was around today and it seemed that in the 2wd buggys the b4 seemed to be a good starter base.

If anyone could give me ant advice with the basics i would need to start racing and also what this car and class would be like for starting in that would be great.

First of all welcome :) i know i am bias but i would say take a long hard look at the madrat by ansmann its ony £50 and you just cant go wrong at all to start with i would run a 27 turn motor if you buy the ansmann its included then allot of the other stuff is down to your personal choice like if you want to run sticks or a wheal and if you want to spend allot of money on the latest kit. also batterys especially NiMh the prices are dropping all the time speek to the regulars at the track see what they run and recomend but all in all its down to the indevidual person

Thanks

What are the spares availability like for these? because i as with anything i always like to easily be able to get spares.

hey
 

ygpm

J&L have spares and the service is allways amazing and always helpful

The mad rat was the other thing mentioned to me but i never took anything of it with it being a smaller name.

do they seem to keep up alrite and have they got good reviews behind them?

all i can say about it is good things others at my club with more experince have said how close to the B4 it drives richard barton drove one and was very happy with it although he didnt like the setup the driver had put on it but the car is a good one spares are cheep and the car is fast

well if its cheap and seems to be alrite it mite be looking like that then!

What sort of tools and spares would i want to be carrying with me when im racing it?

with the madrat i would carry a set of allen keys in metric sizes and spares i would carry a t peice and some wishbones maybe a bulkhead aswell but on the kit motor you shold find you wont break anything since most crashes will be slow

Hello Heathy.

The Madrat does look like a reasonable car for the price. However i am selling 2 Associated RC10 B4's. One is a factury team which i have just rebult and will be selling for £60 and will have no spares. The other which is my main car i am selling after this weekend with lots of spares for £150, as it does have a lot of spares. It is time for me to try a different car as i fancy a change. The one i am selling after the weekend i will strip and rubuild before i sell so let me know if you are interested.

I would have thought you'd be better served with an RC10 B4. Whilst the Madrat looks attractive because of the specs for the price, I would say that as you are just starting out, it would be a better idea to go for an extremely popular car. This is where the B4 excels, at least 50% of 2WD drivers have B4s, so you could borrow spares trackside, pretty much any RC website shop has B4 parts in, and set-up info/help is readily available.

There's a lot of advice out there related to the B4. Also, when the time comes, and if funds allow, you have the ability to convert to an X6.

Sorry for hijacking your thread, but what would a good, cheap starter 4wd be?

How cheap is cheap?

As a guide you will need:

Car kit
1 pack of Lipo cells
Charger to suit above lipos
brushless motor
ESC to suit above motor
Servo
Transmitter/receiver


You can cover most of these with the B4-RTR (ready to run), which just needs cells and charger. This is good, but comes with a brushed motor and steer wheel transmitter - so could be better.

But you would get a better car if you carefully choose a kit and parts. BUT(#2) this would work out the most expensive short term - least expensive long term as you won't need to upgrade so soon.

Heres my recommendation:

Rc10-B4 stealth kit
Trakpower 3600mah cells
Losi AB9603 charger
Losi Xceleron Motor+ESC combo (with 8.5 / 10.5 motor)
Savox SC1258 Servo
Spektrum DX3S transmitter/receiver set. (steerwheel)
or Futaba 3GR transmitter/receiver set (stick)

A big tip from me, is make a list of the components you need and choose carefully which make/brand you will go for. Ask here or at the clubs, but don't rush into anything your not sure about, the sport/hobby is a LOT of fun but only if you make good decisions early on. ;) bad decisions leads to dissapointment and expense.

Chris

i think you coverd everything there chris, and i think it is very good advice

Thanks Everyone

I didn't want to rush into things and do things properly so that i could start off with half decent equipment and by getting everyones advice this has helped me a great deal.

One final question....Is it worthwhile buying new or would it be better to buy second hand and save a little?

James

Hi fella, and welcome to RC... :woot:

On the subject of new or used... if you want to buy new, go for a well respected and popular (read common...) manufacturer for the availiability of trackside and RC shop spare parts... I think the B4 is a good investment new or used for anyone... The B4 chassis can take silly wind brushless and cope with it no prob if you want to, but are equally at home with more everyday wind motors... bear in mind that if you don't want to be a rolling roadblock for the regular racers, choose a motor/ESC accordingly.. ie. see what others at your track are using, not the top drivers, but the guys who will give you a race in the middle of the pack...

Above all else Heathy, have fun mate and try not to get caught up in the quest for speed through spending... consolidate your skills and respect the other drivers... there is nowt worse than a newbie with a fast car!!

you can get second hand electrics that will serve you well and save a packet. Try to go for respected brands as they will generally last longer.

You can pick up second hand KO radio gear (esprit II gold knobs stick transmitter) or servos (2123, fast metal gear, about £30-35). My servos are second hand 2123's and i've been using them for 4 years.
chargers are also good second hand. With the life of lipo cells these days they also make second hand, just make sure you get them from a respected racer who won;t have abused them.
brushless gear will also last longer than older brushed speedo's/motors.

look around and take your time, there are always bargains cropping up on here

Good advice - newby with a fast car limits learning, as they spend more time crashing than driving. Practice makes perfect, and good quality practice is spent on the wheels - so be prepared and willing to start with a slower car than most people, you'll soon be improving and beating many (as there are soooooo many who just can't help try to drive car faster than there talent).

2nd hand can be worthwhile, but it all depends. You don't want to inherit problems in a car fixed with bubble gum and metric screws, but there are some bargains - seek advice from someone as most racers will recognise a 'lemon' of a B4.

I personally would buy new especially to begin with, learning starts with the wrenchs and the fun starts at step 1 in the manual. I really love building a kit, the first one I built with my dad took a week but now I can do it in 2-3 hours!!! LOL.

Hi mate,

Battery-wise I'd strongly recommend the 3700 (7.2v) Vapex NIMH packs. At 15 quid each you really can't go wrong, and they'll provide you with all the power you need for a long time to come.

http://www.vapextech.co.uk/acatalog/...Batteries.html

My judgement of these cells.

Pro's:
Cheap
Cheap
Cheap



Con's:
You'll need several packs to attend a race meeting, as they will need to be cooled before recharging (realistically get 2 uses per pack per day)

The life of a NIMH pack is far shorter than Lipo

NIMH packs deteriorate in performance very quickly from new and seem average for a few months before dieing.

NIMH packs need to be balance discharged (can't do this to a pre-assembled stick pack - so life is even shorter)

High spec NIMH packs come loose, need to be assembled - PITA

Run time on NIMH is less than LIPO for equivalent MAH, as NIMH's self discharge much quicker.

NIMH cells require careful use to keep them healthy.

Have been known to go 'bang' like a firework - most people have seen/witnessed this.



LIPO
Pro's:
Only need 1 pack, as can be re-used over and over in 1 day.

No need to discharge (or buy a discharger)

Hold charge for long period - can be charged days/weeks before next use

No need to balance regular

No 'voodoo' to make them perform - reliably high performance

A cheap charger is as good as an expensive.

Light weight


Con's:
More expensive per pack.

Rumour has it they can set on fire, but I have never seen or heard of any which have.

Must not be discharged, as they will die... (won't happen in a 5 minute race anyway)

I guess it depends on the race meet you go to. At my track there's a short interval between races, so I need three packs to run for the (half) day - any less and I wouldn't be able to charge in time for every race - so I'd need 3 LIPO packs, too. I guess if there's a much longer interval you could get away with one LIPO.

Obviously LIPOs are the better choice if you have loads of money to hand, but the OP asked what you would need to just get a feel for it. The startup cost of rc racing is vicious - getting a few cheap NIMH cells now, and buying LIPOs in a year or so's time is an attractive option for people who don't have wads of cash, or who aren't sure if they'll stay with it. I came back to rc racing about 6 months ago with cheap NIMH cells and some good quality second hand brushed kit, and it cost me well under half what picking up a LIPO/brushless setup would have - and I'm competitive at a club level. I'll think about picking up brushless and later some LIPOs in a few months, but no-one who is just starting out is going to want for performance with a NIMH pack and a cheapish charger/discharger, and it helps spread the cost.

Do you really need three Lipos though?

Because I'd be seriously surprised if you were using much over 1/2 capacity in each round - so you don't need an hour to recharge. In fact, you hardly need to recharge at all - I know a lot of 2wd club drivers using 4500+ mAh Lipos simply use them for 2 rounds before charging.

Even with 3 rounds and a final it works like this:

Pack 1: 1st and 2nd heats then stick on charge

Pack 2: 3rd and 4th heats

By now pack 1 will have been charging for at least 30mins even at the smallest clubs so will be above 50% capacity and therefore ready to go in the finals.

This to me is the real beauty of Lipo's - you don't need to start the race at 100% charge - all you need is enough to reach the finish.

Brushless wise the cheap Ezrun systems can be found on E-bay and are perfectly competitive at club level, yet cost no more than a brushed setup. If buying from Hong Kong via Ebay scares you Giant Cod now supply them in the UK. You'd want this esc and this motor for starting. Its called a 9T but since its not really 540 sized its more like a 10.5t in performance. The whole bundle comes to just over £60!

We usually get 6 races each in at my club over the course of about 3 hours. I concede that's probably unusual, though. At the moment I get through about 3/4 of my 3700 packs in a race, but I see that I could probably get away with running a high capacity LIPO pack and putting it on charge immediately after a race, then using a second one - I'd be running lowish by the last race, but I'd probably get away with it. Brushless would sap the power a bit less too, of course.

What I liked about going brushed was that I was able to start off with a slowish motor and buy dirt cheap replacement ones as I improved. I'm running a really nice 9x1 V2 now that I picked up virtually new for 12 quid, and it pretty much keeps up with the brushless systems at the club - seems approximately equivalent to a 6.5bl. Now that I can handle the speed, I can think about buying a good quality brushless system without having to spend 50 quid on a new motor as soon as I outgrow it. I wasn't aware of the EZrun systems, though - as you say, they seem like pretty good value for money, and low hassle. You'd still, as with brushed, want to replace it with a high quality sensored brushless system eventually, though.

What irritates me is that when I came back to racing and asked on a forum (not this one) what I needed to buy to stand a chance in a club environment, I got told that I needed a brushless system and LIPOs that would set me back several hundred quid, or I'd probably get blown away. I now have in my car £45 worth of batteries and £35 worth of speedo/motor (speedo being an LRP v6.1), and I'm doing just fine. Sure, I'm getting towards outgrowing it, but it's spread the cost to the point that I can afford it. I think it's easy to forget that some people want to try the hobby out, and might be wary about (or unable to) sink a vast initial investment in.

Under £100?
Im after a 4wd buggy thats cheap but can be upgraded (alloy parts?)
I was looking at the master smacker but not sure...

Also, do the mad rat have many upgrade parts, just looked on ebay and there just seems to be bearings

The Madrat is new, but already has masses of upgrade parts - they just haven't hit Ebay yet.
For starters it has a more expensive brother called the X-Pro which has the graphite and alloy bits. You can replace madrat parts with X-Pro parts as you wish - they are completely interchangable but the X-Pro uses the fancy materials. There are also already carbon towers, battery brace and rear t-Pieces available.

The Madrat family is going to be really big I expect, but it takes a while for hop-ups to appear.

You won't get a competitive 4wd for under £100 except used, and even then you'll be lucky. Besides, 2wd is cheaper, more popular and makes you a better driver.

Where can I get the graphite parts for the xpro from to replace the parts on the mad rat?

custom carbon look in the ansmann section

Stop and look at what you are doing dude... you just bought a cost concious car and are now willing to spend more money on it... Why didn't you buy something better equipped in the first place?

Or am I missing the point here..? :confused:

same reason buy things like the steath and fit factory teem parts to it i guess mine is stock havent had a problem some people just like carbon

But still to the point of what i would need. Someone i know has offered me some of his old trakpower 4900 lipos and some other odds and pieces that would help get me started (used tyres/wheels....light usage).

Is it better for me to buy these lipos as they will last me longer (i know he has looked after and stored them properly) rather than get some new nimhs?

The Lipos will perform better than those Vapex NiMH's for example. Because they don't have a memory effect, and don't get as hot as NiMH's Lipos have a good long in useage lifespan.

With the esc/motor I detailed and those 4900's you can expect to get 2 race runs per pack in a 2wd buggy easily enough.

thanks your advice it is great and is helping me a great deal in my choices.

Also how much will i be exspecting to spend per weekend racing (on average) on spares etc?

Well that depends on lots of things:

How often you crash (duh!)
What the track is like (hard walls, jumps that flip you over etc)
What car you are using
How fast you are going etc.

But I'd say one breakage a meeting on average represents a worst case, and there you are talking £5 tops. Its just it might be 4 weeks of nothing then one major one.

To be honest I find tyres a more significant running cost than spares.

Thanks Si Coe thats given me an insight into how much i can race etc etc.

Whats a good DC lipo charger for under £50 - if there is one:S

The reason I only recommend Brushless, is that with brushed - you are going to need to learn about rebuilding them regular, skimming, soldering brushes and timing vs gearing. Its all a faff that we all used to do, and makes RC racing less enjoyable especially for someone starting out. It also brought a separation between those who knew how to make thing work very well, and those who didn't - brushless has brought a level playing field to all racers.

The cost of the Losi Xceleron combo system is relatively low, when you weigh it up against the fact it requires minimal maintenance, will last far longer (per run and lifetime), and has no 'black-art' in terms of maintenance and preparation.

Just today somebody came into the shop who had bought a 12turn LRP brushed motor to start racing with from another shop, and id previously recommended brushless. He had no idea about skimming, brushes, timing or even gearing! I give that motor maximum 5 runs with his driving, and it'll become an expensive paperweight for him.

If you start out doing this cutting corners to save money, it'll shade an otherwise very enjoyable sport/hobby and cost more in the long term.

The Losi 9603 charger, with Core RC 240v to 12v power supply - this comes to approx £55 total and is an excellent choice. (you may need to adapt the plug on the power supply to suit the charger)

Thanks Chris

I was definatley going to use brushless and am following those starting tips you gave me earlier. they're a god send!

Just remember to have a lot of fun mate, thats what it is about ;)

woo, just managed to pick up a used tamiya df03 dark impact with hop ups for £55. Think it would be ok to race?