Transponders
 

Hello, my Son is racing a Mardave at a local club. We are using the clubs provided Transponders but have had at least 3 failures in a couple of Months. Last night he won a Final but he diddnt record a lap. He is 11 so could do with him enjoying a rare victory.
So i see 2 types the AMB and MRT. The latter is cheaper so is it inferiour? and basically can anyone tell me the differences. Thanks for your time. Chris.

My understanding is that...(please correct me if I am wrong)

Mrt sell you a transponder, but no id (you have to provide your ID that you already have)

AMB sell you a transponder + an ID

no mrt do them with there own range of numbers to

AMB transponders have their own UNIQUE ID (the PT Number).

There are basically three types of MRT transponder:

The first have either 10 or 20 preset numbers which take the place of a handout transponder (you press the button on it to get the number you need).

The second have a PT number which is 'cloned' from an AMB transponder, so it has the same number as one that you own already.

The third type have an ID (the same as a PT number). This means there is a remote possibility of a clash, though, as there are 7 numbers there are 10 to the power of 7 combinations for the numbers to take. So, 10000000 different combinations.

it could be the location in the car thats messing with the signal. each car is different and the positions i have been informed is very relevant. I had mine inside my shell above cells and power cables and it wasnt workin very well, i then moved it to another location but not the same angle and i was informed by officials with teh brca that the signal is directional and it just didnt send towards the loop.

now i have it mounted on the rear wing where there is no power interferance and where it aims down. only problem is now i could loose the wing and the bug.

As a club official that deals with the systems, i can say that i normally modify the results to include missing laps, and fully understand how your son can be feeling. its these wins that helps keep interest in the sport

Thanks Marvin !

So final important question where/how to get an MRT ?

http://www.team-mrt.com/ :D

www.rclaps.com :p

I should have explained that I know those website... but they seem broken

# Try buying a R9984 by clicking "buy" on rclaps.com
# It transfers you to http://www.team-mrt.com/mrtwebshop/
# then click "buy" again
# it says "out of stock"

Same behaviour for all the rclaps products I tried a couple of weeks ago

Any clue how to buy one ?

Hi, thanks to all members for the info. From the replies it appears to be as safe to purchase either brand. Again thanks for your time. Chris.

Yep, both fine, but I can't find a way of buying the MRT one either, out of stock!?

Do AMB only sell direct, where is best to get those?

welll www.demonpowerproducts.co.uk normally stock both but are currently out of stock.
I'm sure taht other modelshops would stock the AMB too.

Not only "currently". They have been for a while.

I wonder if there is a subtle way to buy them

Maybe give Nick at Demon a call and ask him if he knows what's going on?

You've had some good advice in the thread so far but you need to be sure which type of lapcounting system your club is using!

Most clubs use AMB. There are two AMB systems - black club transponders is the old AMB20 system. Red ones is the current AMBrc system.

There may also still be some clubs using the KO transponder system or maybe even another system altogether!

AMB's own personal transponder is only compatible with AMBrc.

MRT do two kinds of personal transponder. One is a clone of the AMBrc transponder. The other is a personal version of the AMB20 transponder.

One thing you need to be aware of with the MRT clones is that they do not have their own unique numbers, all the numbers are cloned from already manufactured AMB transponders. This does mean that there is a small risk of transponder clashes although it is very unlikely to happen unless someone has had their transponder cloned, then sold the original on, or if someone has forgotten to switch their MRT transponder to a different preset number.

AMB transponders are available in the UK from www.bbksoftware.com and also direct from AMB in Holland www.amb-it.com

The main club he race's at uses the latest amb system so it's compatable with both :D

I have phoned Demon Products and he said he`ll give them a ring tonight so check back tomorrow.... he didn`t sound happy mind

Andy

Not happy about what? You asking?

Nick seldom sounds happy over the phone:D,
but don't let that put you off, both myself and others I know have received honest and reliable service from Demon for many years:) ...(and no I'm not sponsored or biased in any way;) )

Yeh i think thats all it is, and i`ve used demon acouple of times and i`m well happy with there price and customer service its excellent just think i wasn`t the first to have asked him about transponders thats all.

On the transponder issue i`ve recieved an email from someone at MRT and they have said stock will be in at the end of the month:)

Andy

Rc mushroom sell amb too

the chance of a PT-number-clash is very slim. And if it does, it's almost certain that it will be with someone with another MRT-pt, as MRT ONLY uses the PT-numers THEY possess.
You CANNOT clash with someone else who has an AMB-PT!!
So it would not be difficult to agree with the other person on who of the two will change his pt-number with a simple click on a button.

Other advantage: The MRT-pt uses less volt. It sometimes happens that at the end of a heat, the voltage drops when you open up the throttle 100% en de ESC demands a lot of Amps.
In such a case, it could happen that the PT does not have enough Voltage left and will miss a lap when it passes the antenna.

(when a AMB- or MRT-PT passes the antenna under the track, it registers the antenna (which sends out a signal) and in return answers with his PT-code. When not enough voltage, the PT is not capable to emit his pt-code)

As the MRT-pt runs on less voltage, the chance of missing a lap is strongly reduced.

Also, the MRT is smaller and can be much more easely repared in case of damage on the PT-casing or the wire.

I own both an AMB-pt and an MRT-pt (which has the cloned number from the AMB-pt ... so both with the same pt-code).
The AMB-pt is a very nice product. Technically well build, good technology.
But the MRT-pt is no less AND cheaper!

Ever heard of a certain Marc Rheinard ? :p;)
He runs an MRT-pt also. And those guys don't take any risks.

About being out of stock.
MRT just can't keep up with demand :)
Best is to give them a ring, in the morning. You'll get some direct answers.

The MRT PTx does use the same number system as the AMBRc system, and MRT do not 'possess' any numbers. Only AMB know which have gone, and which to use, therefore a clash could happen between an AMB transponder and a MRT transponder.

However, there are 7^10 possibilities (282475249) for the PT number (7 places, any one of 10 numbers can fill each space), so incredibly unlikely that there would be a PT clash. Even then, there are only 10 per heat, and 10 per final, so at a meeting, it would be unlikely they would be in the same heat, and race control could probably work around it.

If I buy an AMB-transponder, who does "own" that pt-code then? AMB or me?

IMHO, it's me. I also should guess that AMB knows which pt-numbers it has allready used and will not produce two pt's with the same number.

MRT uses the AMB-numbers of the AMB-transponders they own.
They got these numbers by buying AMB-pt's, or from donated AMB-pt's they received from customers (in return to a price-reduction for the MRT-pt).
So MRT will not use a AMB-number they do not "own", from which they do noy have the AMB-pt in their possession.

That's also why, when you let them clone a pt-code-number, you have to send in your AMB-pt, so that they can read it out, AND to asure them that you actually are the owner of that pt.
Also, that particular code, will and can only be used in the MRT-pt's they produce for that owner.

So, a clash can not occur with an AMB-pt ... unless someone sold his cloned pt or the pt that has been cloned, which MRT very clearly mentioned NOT TO DO.

Yes Lowie your correct.
The pt number is owned by who ever owns the original amb PT. So if MRT take an original in as part ex against a clone then they own that number.

Great !

So any news on the availability of MRT pt ? website still doesn't work

Our club brought Batleys old AMB transponder system a couple of years ago. We are unable to use PT's with it. Our handout tranponders are the red cased ones so i presume its the AMBrc system. I was thinking of buying a MRT PT with the preset numbers, does anyone know if it will work with our timing system?

If your handouts are red then it is AMBrc and you should be able to use AMB PT's with it. Do the handouts also have 7-digit numbers printed on them?

Im not sure if they have. there are a couple of guys there that have AMB PT's and there unable to use them. Could it have something to do with the software? Im not sure what software we use either but i do know its free.

Could be a software issue then, either a restriction on a free edition, or incorrect settings.

I take it the MRT PT's with the preset numbers clone the AMB handout numbers? Will have a look at what software we are using on Friday night. I do know that Batley wasn't able to run PT's either, think that might been the reason for them selling it. I could be wrong tho.

Steve... the transponder system is AMB20 that we use at cullingworth. As far as Im aware you would need a different decoder to run PT's

Oh and the software is laps free:D

Unusual that you have AMB20 in red cases, perhaps they were serviced and re-cased?

Anyway, MRT also do a personal transponder than runs with AMB20. It has 10 presets. It doesn't carry any AMBrc numbers though.

exact. AMB has develloped the AMB20-system. with this system comes a decoder that can read the numbers of the pt's.
It can only read those 20 transponders. (numbered from 1 to 10 or 20 and also called "clubtransponders")

Later on AMB developped a new system, capable of reading out transponders with a longer number/code: the Personal Transponders as everyone can buy one and have a specific, own personal code/number.
For these transponders, a different decoder is needed then in the first system. (one of the systems is digital, the other analog, I believe).

SuperSparkSteve, from what you told, I suppose your club has the older AMB20-system. This system can not read ANY type of Perosnal transponders.

However, MRT is also capable of providing you a (set of) AMB20-type clubtransponder(s).

Thanks for all the info guys. Our club transponders must have been serviced and re-cased as Sosidge says.

I've heard on another forum of a club that switched their totally used AMBrc-clubtransponders for two sets of 10 MRT-pt's.

AMBrc-clubtransponders have a battery.
(MRT can switch these batteries also for you, if the batteries are at the end of their lives.)
The MRT-pt's have a power-wire, so now someone who uses one of their Clubtranponders will have to connect that powerwire to their receiver.

And to make things clear, they just gave every of their two sets a color, by spraying a fluorescent color on them. Whenever the color has weared out to much, they just spray some new paint on them. These pt's don't have to be beautifull, but usefull! :D

It works like a charm and was MUCH less expensive then a new set of AMBrc-clubtransponders (which, AFAIK, are much more expensive then regular AMB Clubtransponders).

If you wonder ... I have no connection with MRT, except for the fact that I bought an MRT-pt, but I contacted Tony from MRT by phone when I was looking for info for an RC-club I knew that were looking into the possibility to buy MRT-pt's to replace their AMB20-system.
SO I digged into the matter and phoned MRT a couple of times.
Also, there are some threads about MRT-pt's on the RCtech.net-forum

I would love the club I race at to have a transponder system. All very interesting reading and from what I understand these systems cost a small fortune.

there was a club setup on ebay earlier today. can't see it now so it must have ended so can't say what it went for.

the Ludlow club that I've been going to since I was 10 (17 years ago) has always used amb transponders. they had the 10 red 10 yellow ones when I started and now just have 10 with the red cases.

A lot of racers have the ambrc PTs in their cars. I just bought one as after 17 years of racing 'forgot' to put a transponder in my car for round one... it just didn't cross my mind lol

It went for about £300, but not being the man in charge at the club I didn't bid..

I'm wanting to do a regional at some point so will be getting a couple of PTs I expect