Lap Counters
 

What is required for a club to get an automatic lap counting system and how much are we looking at?

Transponder sets are VERY expensive... £2,000 or somthing?

eeek - no chance of my small club getting one or myself splashing out a bit of cash.

I'll get them one if I win the lottery

If you have someone who is patient you can buy a laptop and buy a lap counting software like laps etc but this requires someone to press the numbers as the cars pass. If you want automatic lap counting you require a AMB counting system the new one is AMB rc3 which is exspensive but you can get AMB 20 reasonablly chealy second hand maybe a few hundred quid. But they are very rare.

A

They have the software and computer as yes someone presses the number as the car crosses the line etc.

Maybe if we can get the numbers up at Titchfield it will come.

Am I right in thinking that 1/10 off road is coming back?

A new AMB system will cost you £1700 for 20 transponders, and a further £2200 for the decoder and timing loop. You can do without the transponders if you can persuade all your members to buy their own transponders, current price for an AMB is £94.30 each.
There might be a cheaper alternative than the full on AMB system available soon, hopefully around £500 for the full system including 20 transponders.

We are developing an infra red system specifically aimed at smaller clubs and even a cheap version as an alternative to the Orion Pro LCS for personal lap counting. It will be a little while though as we've just started trialling the system. The hardware works reliably, we've just got to sort out everything we want in a race program to go with it and find any glitches in the system.

PM gingerfixit on here (Andy Bell). Newbury used to use an infra red system before they got their AMB system, it worked really well to be fair. I am not sure if they still have it and would part with it but Andy would certainly be able to tell you where to get it from.

I can't remember how much Andy said it cost the club but I remember thinking it was an absolute bargin.

Here at our track in the U.S ,we use the I-LAP infered counter .It works on the same lap counting program as the AMB.The transponders cost about $40us comapred to the AMB $110US.Our track used it for the first time last season and it worked flawlessly.Even the hardcore AMBer couldn't believe how well it worked and how accurate it was!!For our track it cost about $700us for the I-LAP counter/sensors and we used the lapsfree counting program which is free download.
I-LAP website is www.rclapcounter.com thw owners name is Craig and i believe he ships anywhere,just email him.


Seancormier
www.evolutionhobbies.com
www.evolutionrcraceway.com

That was the one they had at Newbury I think .... seemed to work well.

This I-LAP system is great for club racing ,also great for bigger events.
Don't let the racers talk you into buying the AMB because they already have the AMB transponder.First the die hard racer will buy the I-LAP transponder no matter if the have the AMB or not.Just have a track set of transponders available for the racers who don't buy them.
Most racer don't know how much a lap counter cost ,so its easy for them to say just get the AMB.If they really knew how much it can cost for a complete AMB system they would look into the I-LAP.
This helps to keep the cost down for the track or club owner ,and in return helps keep entry fee down.
For us it was spend $700us for the I-LAP or $2500+us for the AMB,to get the same end result reliable and accurate lap counting .The I-LAP system does both at a much lower cost.
The I-LAP transponder works thru some painted bodies but clear spot works better,or even a small hole in the body over the tranponder works better.They still will work if they get mud on them or fuel.

Keep in mind that AMB has had a 20+ year monoply on the lap counter business,so it will take time for something new get out there for more people to use and trust .The I-LAP system is that other choice.


Sean Cormier

Interested in your comments about the I-Lap System.

Fully agree that until we found out about I-Lap I thought that AMB had the monopoly on our sport and therefore keeped the price high for what is just a small piece of electronics - it's not rocket science and look how cheap computers are these days.

I've been communicating with the guys from I-Lap and so far can not fault their customer service. From a new club's perspective is quite simple which system to go for.

I was just hoping we had a few more clubs using it in the UK so I can gauge if our new club should go for it. It seems that people are very happy with it, and if we charge half of what an AMB transponder costs for the I-Lap transponder, it would only need approx 15 club members to almost pay for the whole system - even better news for a new club without funds :thumbsup:

If there is anyone out there running this system, please feedback your thoughts.

Never been a fan of businesses that have monopoly in one sector, so at last it seems we really do have an alternative, and a good one at that too... I wonder how long before AMB drop their silly £1000's + price on their systems?

I do aggree the AMB systems are a bit overpriced. BUT they are defently worth it. I dont lke this idea of the loop sensor things with the I-Lap system. They seem a little exposed. The AMB loop is a simple piece of wire which can be replaced easily. If a car lost control and hit the barrier it could destroy one of the sensor things.

A

frequently I've seen cars take the loop out running the AMB system and it's just a case of connecting the loop of wire back into the box to get the counting going again

There in lies the issue I have with the AMB system. 'A simple piece of wire' that connects to a simple circuit board and they charge £2000 for it!!!

I'm surprised no one from China has copied the system, it can't be that complicated - afterall, there are enough free software packages out there for running meetings...

In terms of the fragile nature, we intend running this indoors and I think the bridge does not have to be that close to the track so the chances of a car getting airborne are very slim. If we go with the system, I would look to build a canter-lever arm across the finishline so you would not have a vertical stand on the egde of the track for a car to hit.

I'm going to speak to the guys from I-Lap tonight, if these systems can see through clear body shells, maybe I could house the sensors inside clear boxes which are attached to the bridge arm, therefore providing protection to the sensors.

Watch this space for the feedback...

Got the answers to some questions from the guys at I-Lap. Firstly, their swift replies to my emails have been great, I hope their post sales customer service is as great as their pre-sales :)

In terms of damage to the sensors, they say that the sensors can be 2 foot above the track and some clubs actually place the sensors inside a clear tube when attached to the bridge over a track, thus preventing any damage to the sensors if a car was to hit the bridge.

Just waiting to get some feedback from some clubs who run it, but it's looking like the way forward for us...

a lot of people use a system similar to I-LAP during testing in karting.

if it's good enough for karts, it's got to be good enough for RC :)

there is yet one more option to reduce costs, more particular the costs of the transponder.

You could buy the AMB-decoder an loop ... and they buy some MRT-transponders in stead of the AMB-transponders.
MRT-transponders do not have a battery inside but a wire that should be hooked up (as an AMB-personal transponder does) on the receiver.
Advantage of this is that they last much longer then AMB-transponders that lose battery-cpacity after some years.
Other advantage is that your system will be fully compatible with all people that allready use AMB-transponders.
MRT-transponders are much cheaper about 50% of an AMB-transponder) AND you get a reduction if you buy more then 10 (more info: www.rclaps.com)
... But offcourse the cost of an AMB-decoder is rather high.

Cheapest solution will offcourse stay the I-laps system.
I have some experience myself with Laps Free, that free lapcounting-software and it's actually pretty good.
And you are right that good customer-service is VERY important, so more points for I-laps.

I-lap
 

Again we are very pleased with the I-LAP system and is worth the money.Craig at I-LAP has a great product and great customer service.We are about to finish up our second season with the system and it has worked FLAWLESSLY the whole time!

As for the comment about possible damage to the sensors ,we have our sensors mounted on a bridge made from PVC pipe .They are slightly exposed but we have not had any damage to a sensor at all.If you go to our track sie www.evolutionrcraceway.com and copy and paste our new photo bucket link you will see the lap counting bridge in the pictures.The picture are from our recent Money Madness race that we just had a week ago.
The one thing we like is the whole system is powered through a single USB cable,unlike other system that you need to plug in to a power outlet.

If you have any questions about the I-LAP system please email me directly at [email protected].(i do not always check my PM's here on Oople) and NO i do not work for I-LAP, i just believe in the product.

Sean
Evolution Hobbies
Crooked River Rc raceway
Casco Maine USA

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/a...e/DSC_0173.jpg

see background left :)

could you tell us what the whole thing cost you?
Drivers need to borrow those specific transponders, I guess? Or can they buy these as well?

Lowie

We have little over $700us into our I-LAP system and that included 10 transponders .We used 7 transponders for a track set and 3 to sell.We use the Laps free program which is a free download .The only other expense will be the computer.We use a cheap E-Machine tower bought a Best Buys for$399.99 us.
You can buy more transponders if people want them .We have a track set for those who do not want to buy there own or race once in a while.

Sean

and what do those transponders cost?

Lowie

I-LAP transponders cost around $38us plus shipping,compared to the AMB at $110us.

visit the I-LAP website www.rclapcounter.com for pricing and for more information.


Sean

I-LAP lap counting system
 

Some people have emailed me to ask question about the I-LAP counting system,so i will answer them here.
Question one -what scale works best with the I-LAP? ALL scales from mini-z,1/16 to 1/4 scales,nitro and electric.

Question two -what do i do if i don't have a empty channel slot on my receiver to plug into?use a wye adapter or in some cases you can plug into the empty battery slot(mostly on electrics)some receivers will not allow you to power anything in the battery slot due to a internal diode in the receiver.

Question three-does the I-LAP miss laps because it is infered system?ABSOLUTLY NOT as long as the transponder is mounted correctly and has a clean line of sight to the bridge sensors.It will not miss a lap ,even in the sun.

This system is just as accurate as the AMB ,just less money.This helps keep the cost down for the track owner and in return keeps entry fee's down for the racers.Don't get me wrong the AMB is a nice system but the cost is high for something that just counts laps.Just think, tracks could go back to hand counting to keep cost down

Sean
Evolution Hobbies

Which system?
 

People said on earlier posts that some tracks are using a infered lap counter .I am just wondering which system the I-LAP ,Trackmate or another system.Also ,how do the track owners and racers feel about these type of lap counting systems?


Sean

Nobody knows what infered lap counters these other tracks use? anybody!
I am just curious.


sean

Its been about 2 weeks sense my last post and still no response from tracks that do use a infered lap counter.That ok ,our season is coming to a end here and all i can say another flawless season with the I-LAP infered lap counter.
Now i am just wondering if the people that PM or emailed on the I-LAP system ended up buying one or a system like it? if you are one of those people or a track / club owner who has bought a lap counter recently PLEASE post your comments,opinions or questions here .

I-LAP infered Lap Counter website www.rclapcounter.com
This is a great system for anybody who wants to keep the cost of racing down .

Sean Cormier
Evolution Hobbies
Casco Maine USA
www.evolutionrcraceway.com
www.evolutionhobbies.com

We run an IR system although it's not an i-laps one, it's the newbury clubs old one. Since we bought it off them it's ran flawlessly for 10+ nights club racing.

Even a few times people have been rolling underneath the loop and still got picked up only once it totally missed a lap. That was myself when I roofed it about 2-3m before the loop and slid the whole way underneath and out the otherside as it's on polished wood. It was then very obvious that it missed the lap and the scores could be amended. That was the first night we ran the jump and the loop was just a bit close to a jump, I landed at an angle on the carpet and flipped it. Not had an issue since.

We find the IR system great as there was no way a small club in the middle of nowhere could raise the money for an AMB system within any sort of a reasonable timescale.

DC-System
 

There is also this one very simple and relaible
I use one since 2005, can take 10 cars in the same time, IR-system :

http://www.dcsystems.fr/produits.php?Fam=5

mole2k
Is there any way to find out what system that is ? The other infered system used here in the US is the TrackMate made in Canada.The biggest difference between the I-LAP and the Trackmate is the I-LAP system is powered trough the USB port on the computer and the TrackMate system has to be plugged in to wall outlet.This makes the I-LAP more portable for parking lot racing were there may not have a power outlest available.


sean:thumbsup:

Diesel

That system looks interesting.How much does it cost?also you said that it is infered but the transponder looks like it would be radio frequency?I will have to translate the website to be able to read more about it.

Sean
---------------------------------------------------------------
The reason why i keep posting about the Infered lap counters is so that new track owners and clubs know that there is something else out there besides the AMB/MyLaps system.I believe if track owner's or club's can keep the cost down on starting and running track,and in return can keep cost down for the racer .Such as entry fee's and the cost of a transponder in this case .That the racers will keep coming .If cost get's to high it will keep most NEW racers from coming and that is who you need to keep track's going in the future.

The system we use has to be externally powered and uses the AMB20 protocol.

I just got a email from a racer/hobby shop owner who raced at my track this summer . He and two other hobby shop's in his area all bought I-LAP system's .He said in his email that he bought it because he saw that it worked flawless at my track and because of price.They all like the idea that it is powered through the USB port because one shop run's parking lot racing .That is three more tracks added to the list of infered lap counting tracks.Still a way to go to catch up with AMB but i think it will get there .
Also i talked to a track owner that uses the TrackMate infered lap counter and he to says that it works great.Best investment he made for his track without breaking the bank to do it.He even said that the die hard AMBer's at his track liked how well it worked and said it was worth the money.

Sean

We have been able to extend our outdoor racing season.And again the I-LAP infered lap counter is still working flawless.I keep posting so shop and track owners know that this system is worth the money and a great alternative to the AMB system .

I understand that some tracks have purchased the I-LAP sysytem or one like it in the past few months .It would be great if they could start posting here aswell!

www.rclapcounter.com <-- more info on the I-LAP system

sean

it could be a good system for those who want to practice as well, $220 for the kit and one transponder.