leagality, lipo and insurance
 

Jim Spencer of the BRCA has posted this, insurance does cover thier use and there ok to use if clubs allow them, confirmed below

he was asked "are lipo legal"

Today, 06:31 PM #2 Jim Spencer vbmenu_register("postmenu_253381", true);
Full Member
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Real Name: Jim Spencer
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hough, Cheshire
Posts: 814
BRCA #: 270
Club: Crewe Model Car Club


Basically Yes..
But...

It depends what for..

You can run your car on any power source you like as long as its under 30cc. you could put a steam engine in it if you want and the BRCA General Rules* will cover it no problem & the insurance company would be quite happy.

However as for racing it..

That depends on the racing rules for the class you want to run in, and then where you want to run it.

The section rules in the BRCA handbook anly apply to nationals, sanctioned events and other events that want to run to them.
So some clubs and regional series run to strict BRCA rules, and some don't, you need to check with your likely racing location / class to see if they allow LiPo's or not.

This probably hasn't helped you instantly, so what are you planning to do and where and one of us can then answer specifically http://www.rcracechat.com/vb/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


NOTE
*The BRCA General Rules (pages 12/13 2006 handbook) are the only rules that apply to all members & clubs for all events we do, the rest of the sectional rules in the handbook are for National meetings or other events that choose to adopt them.
__________________
Jim Spencer

Thanks for posting that Mark, puts some questions to rest.

steam power
 

thats the future

been told today trakpower are looking into saddle packs seriously

would york off road car club allow lipo packs in 2wd modified ?

im thinking of getting a lipo pack

that will be the question i asked on racechat then :lol:

i have had a reply from the brca regarding this it reads

Dear Simon,

LiPo cells are not allowed to be used at any BRCA sanctioned events during 2007.

Obviously they do not comply with any of the current battery rules, and none of the Electric Sections (within the Electric Board) have asked for them to be included in the rules.

The latest list of approved NiCd and NiMH cells for 2007 can be viewed on the BRCA website.
Go to the Electric Board Section and 'click' on the battery homologation list.

Best regards,

Paul Worsley. (Secretary, BRCA Electric Board)


from what i can gather they are legalish but not in brca events but you are covered by the brca for insurance purposes

yup thread here
http://www.rcracechat.com/vb/showthr...566#post253566

but they can be used at regionals should that region decide to allow them, paul is also incorrect though as the bike section do in fct allow lipo at thier nationals, so they are used and ok to at nationals

Exactly
Hi

Yup you've got that spot on, Paul's answer covers the racing rules, mine covers the Insurance aspect and hence their use at clubs and other regional series.

For example the HPI winter series allows LiPo's as do quite a lot of clubs, the BRCA national series do not, its down to each section within the National structure and then each event organiser/club commitee after that.

So for club use its; Ask the club.

It's a bit like you building a 6 wheeled wind powered buggy, the main rules of the association would be quite happy for you to bash that around the local park, but you would probably need to do a lot of explaining at your local club before they would let you race it..
If you did and then a few others joined in and they were ace fun and even more folks joined in, then you would probably find yourself in a room at the AGM a few years down the line sorting out the National rules for them, that's how the process works.

You'll find there are loads of classes raced at club level that arn't covered in the BRCA rule book as they're not a 'National' class (Electric F1's and the 1/18th classes immediatly come to mind) and this isn't a problem, in fact its exactly what's required as its where the new classes come from.
__________________
Jim Spencer

bit more on insurance cover

mark you can't use them at any regional's as regional are run to brca rules thus there not brca legal or on the homl list thus you can't legally use them.

please read the quotes from Jim. where he clearly states they can be used at regionals should that region decide to allow them
regionals are not run to brca rules re tyres as they are open!

i have mark,
also read the paul worsley (1-10th off-road charimans,ec board chairman) post. saying they are not brca legal for 1/10th off-road (at least) and seeing as all 1/10th off-road regional's are brca sanctioned events then you can't use them and score any points or gain a license grade.

each regional can choose to certain extent there own rules on tyres/cells/motors etc as long as there on the homl list. which lipo's arnt!

I think that was the same for brushless in the north east regionals - which were allowed before they were "legal" - you just had to take them out for the indoor finals.

It does actually depend on the region, any region can specify a specific tyre of use, specific motor etc.. it's up to the region to decide what rulings they undertake.

to proove my point, and marks.. brushless was allowed at regionals and EOY finals last year, but not nationals. (from my reading and understanding of all of this) Lipos can be ran at regionals if allowed to do so by that sector.

scary is that jimmy :yawn:

brushless were allowed at regionals and eoy but only brushless units on the homl list. lipos' arnt on it so they can't be used, doesnt matter what the regions decide or not only motors/cells on the brca electric board list can be used at a brca sanctioned events ie national/regional.
it was also sancitioned at the 2005 agm that regions could choose to run brushless if the wanted to in the 2006 season, again this came from the 1-10th off-road agm, nothing was said about lipo's for the 2007 season at last year agm!

I was talking about the 2005/6 INDOOR regionals - and I am not sure there was a list at that time?? I could be wrong on that, but I don't remember any rules?

You had to take them out for the indoor finals.

They were of course allowed all last year also, where the homologation stuff was generally stuck to. And I used it at the f345...


But anyway - I was talking about back in 2005.

so how come bikes run nationals under the brca and allow lipo?

As you posted quoting Jim Spencer

'the Bike section haven't adopted the EB yet' Hence the don't run to EB rules. However, 1/10th Off-Road do, and as the regionals are BRCA sanctioned events they are run to BRCA/EB homl lists. Therefore as Lipo do not appear on any list they are not approved. Same way Reedy brushless motors are not allowed.

looks like you didnt read jims post mark not me :D

Tom and Losixxx are right here I'm affraid.

G

I agree with Chris and Tom,

Jimmy I'm sure you are wrong, when we started running brushless you had to run ones that were on the list, I remember Derek Brady explaining the point at every regional at drivers briefing (who wasn't listening ;) ).

At scruitineering for any regional we should by rights have the homologation cells and motors list and check all cars. We don't as a rule but that's on the basis people aren't deliberatly running non legal kit.

Remember rules help control the fun!

yeh but no but yeh:mad: ...............................i did read it and i also read the one from paul (head of EB) saying "LiPo cells are not allowed to be used at any BRCA sanctioned events during 2007"
yet the bikes do so at thier brca sanctioned nationals! that leaves little confidence in his thoughts on the matter

as i understood it yes they (off road) use the EB rules but they can opt to alter or allow somin at regionals

so if some one turned up at a regional with a silver can motor or an old corally modified motor and stick pack cells from tamiya etc, you would disqaulify them or not let them race?

Although valid, that is a rather daft argument, it isn't that they are non-homolgated, but a known quantity and general construction, plus, if someone is running that gear, they are obviously new.

If a region decides to allow you to run brushless and LiPo, then I hope then enforce the minimum weight limit.

or old and making a return!
perfectly aceptable:)

just as a side note, lipo sadle packs are not far away, so all can play

That type or range will then be deleted enabling the current lists to be maintained at a manageable size. [It is not intended that previously homologated motors cease to be eligible when they are removed from the lists – event scrutineers within the UK should not turn away competitors using old motors just because they are no longer shown on the current homologation lists].

Can we please start reading the rule books, they normally contain the answers ;)

While we are reading the rules.

1/10th Off-Road handbook states:

25. BATTERIES
25.1 Cars will be driven by a maximum of six rechargeable cells, which cannot be replaced after a race has started.
25.2 The description, specification and types of rechargeable batteries approved for use in Off-Road Sanctioned events can be found in the section entitled ‘BRCA Electric Board’ (EB).

Lipo breaks both them rules, hence cannot be used at sanctioned events, hence cannot be used at regionals, as looking at this rule:

4.1 Off-Road Sanctioned events include the National Championship Series, Regional Championship Series, Indoor Finals, Junior & Veterans’ Championship, British Regional Championship (BRC) and the Inter-Regional F3/F4/F5 Championship. It is possible that further specific events could be sanctioned by the committee.

Regionals are a sanctioned event.

you do dont you, you race tc too ;-)

ok another question, if the reedy decal was removed and a lrp/nosram was put on what then? same motor, same markings (vetec) now with a holmlogated decal/name

I'm not in a position to give an official answer but I would assume it becomes a legal motor. Although where you would get a LRP/Nosram sticker from I don't know, because as far as I know no-one imports or sells them. Therefore you would have to have a LRP/Nosram motor to begin with.

Alreet, think the questionings are getting abit silly now, this could go on, and on, and on. Offroad is a civilised place, relaxed as it were.

The questions have been answered, so please don't let the thread drag out with petty questions which we all know the answers to already with abit of common sence.

And again, Nope.

ok more important did you sort ur car out?

Hi Guys,
I missed all the fun!!!

But one point missed by all:
6x Sub-C cells = 7.2v
Lipo pack = 7.4v

Therefore I doubt Lipo will be homoligated for use in the foreseeable future.

If only you had told us that yesterday :rolleyes: :D

Mark, you well know that, even if you bring another stock/19t/mod motor in, that is already done by someone else, albeit another label, you have to have the motor homologated, careless if it is 'identical' to someone elses brand motor.

Still in the process of fixings,

back on topic - lipo

:p

Losi

You sure??? ;)

Wow, don't shout so loud, my eyes are ringing!

this isnt realy an arguement if you look at new style cells like 4200mah

there voltage on a pack of good cells is what 1.22-1.23v per cell x6=7.32-7.38volts per pack so your already at the 7.4v marker so where is the difference?

cells today have passed there own voltage limit because our cells are worked so much harder to get the most from them lipo is a serious contender. if people want to run them why stop them as there is no advantage in voltage