New Schumacher KC
 

I see MB Models advertising KC for delivery late February! nothing on the Schumacher site apart from the KD.

This is what MB have posted on their FB page:
"Now taking Pre-Orders for Schumachers new 2wd buggies!
Dirt Version - Due Early Feb
Carpet/Astro Version - Due Late Feb (This may not exist, we have made it up)
£50 secures your kit from the first batch.
Thanks
MB"
Think the expectation is for an updated 2wd, but nothing confirmed yet...

The manual for the KD has confirmed that the KC is coming out

Link?

I've downloaded the manual on my phone from the Schumacher website but they have now removed it probably due to the fact that it also confirmed the KC which they have not announced

I recon it will still be a belt driven car looking at the holes in the chassis of the KD, but with the new shock tops and carbon side rails a sort of KF3. They must think that getting the motor forward with the belt and the battery behind it is better than the battery in front of the motor that the gear drive allows.

The manual was available, I looked through it and noticed that a note said "KD/C". In a couple of sections.

It since got taken down! (Shhh)

CARB, i think your right. The only way to get weight forward enough would be with belt or shaft. Tempted to get a KD and convert to KC if needed.

Surely the KC will be a production version of the 3 gear belt format car that Orlowski was rocking at the DHI cup?

Kc
 

It will be like the 3 gear Neal I agree. That thing went so well there I can't see them not releasing it like that.

Wonder if people will flood back to Schumies after all getting B6's and yz2's (myself included!)

I can not see people switching, not because it is not a good car but with kits being £300 + each time things are getting expensive compare to a few years ago when it was closer to £200 for a kit.

Someone needs to build a kit that has a module that carries the gear box, shock tower, rear wishbones, motor and speed controller for high grip and a second module that has the same but for low grip.

So you buy either a single module for your specialist condition or buy both if you do high and low grip, this way you only have one front end with servo, transponder etc and two rear ends complete ready to switch as and when.

I've recently bought the Serpent as it has two gearbox options in the box. A few other kits offer this including Kyosho and PR. The drawback of swapping between high and low grip gearboxes is the side pods. The gearbox dimensions are different and need different mounting holes which then gives more room for battery placement.
I love the availability nowadays and yes the kits cost more but I don't find details myself having to buy option parts like I did previously.

The Schumacher kits have always looked great and are generally over engineered.

I agree a bit of simplicity would help, especially newcomers as the 3 and 4 gear options are a minefield.

I'm not a big racer at all, just do some club races here an than, but i never understood the sense about an mid motor car with battery next to it and a forward motor car with the motor up front of the battery?

Lets say, a motor does weight arround 180 g and a shorty pack by about 210 g, not much differents there?
with an chassis, like modern 2wd cars have, you have alot of place to move the battery further to the front, not like back in the days, we used to use stick packs in the centre line.
By moving the shorty up to the front and may the esc all the way front to the servo, i get nearly the weight distribution from a forward motor car on an mid motor car.

Can someone please tell me, what is a good, or the best weight distribution for mid and for a front motor car?

Edit: i better ask, the differnt weight distribution between an high bite and mid-low bite track for a 2wd?


Thanks in advance
Mike

It is complicated, it is not just the physical weight of the parts but also the rotational mass, think of the motor as a gyro so the nearer the centre length wise of the chassis the easier the chassis can rotate.
Plus a load of other stuff the chassis designers are aiming for.

Thanks CARB for that info, i forgot about the gyro effect from the motor, you are absolutly right!

As you sayed chassis designers, many of the factories are working on chassis flex as an tuning option, i never will belive in that, that a chassis should do the job, the suspension is for, if you have a well balanced car (shockwise), you can have a bone hard chassis and let the suspension do their job, while the chassis is there, to hold things together, thats what i always will belive in, like on real cars....
You cant controle that force, it's like a compressed spring, that unloads, when the counter force is not anought anymore, so you never know, when this will happen!
It could just be a litte bump, that lifts the car a bit, or a jump, or a lifting wheel from the ground, or whatever, it can happen every time and its not controliable.
I hope you understand what i mean, its hard for me to explane, because my english is not that good?:blush:

I've got a new 4wd on my bench since a while now, never drove it since, as the rear end flexes like hell, right now i'm on the way, to make my own cf side rails and stiffen up the chassis as much i can, if i cant get it, i would like to have it, i'll sell it!

Thats just i belive in, may i'm totaly wrong!?:):confused:;)

Edit: for an example, i run my k2 with saddle packs and to get the right balance, i run the hardest (black) core rear springs and the softest (white) core front springs, no one ever would do that i think, but i like how it handles that way!

As with many things, it is the right amount of flex that matters, and of course also the direction of flex. Even on high-grip astro, I was surprised just how much better my YZ-4 became when I moved from the standard top deck to the LMR/MR33 top deck and finally the cut ultra-flex version. Adjustable flex is here to stay for a reason, and most average drivers will do better with a more forgiving i.e. flexible car with a wider set-up window. With a stiff car, your set-up has to be spot on or your car/truck will be slow or even become undrivable.
Further to your K2: I am not surprised to see some very hard springs together with saddle-packs as the car will most likely be quite heavy in the rear, and the softer front springs will probably make up for the increased rear-biased weight distribution. You should not care too much about other peoples' opinion as long as your set-up works for you. However, make sure to try various things with a transponder in your car, sometimes what is fast does not feel fast. Another enlightening moment was to see how much faster my B5M was on dirt with a lighter battery although the saddle pack felt better...
Driving style plays an important role, too. In most cases, pro-driver set-ups where all but useless for me because I would hit the brakes at the wrong time and put the car on its roof. :blush:

But I digress, sorry about that! It is great to see so much development going on in the 2WD buggy class. Maybe it is about time for me to give Schumacher another shot. It has been some time since my Cougar 2 Team! ;)

Yup ;)

It's a toy car, the suspension (shocks specifically) are toys. A plunger moving in a pot of oil. It's never going to work like a real car.
Some flex is a good thing, the engineers can only judge on what they know and how they drive. If the flex is "wrong" (completely subjective) you'll have issues.

We even engineer in flex to 1:1 scale car suspension systems. As the suspension/shocks can't do everything.

Both cars look amazing. Good job Schumy.

New 4wd
 

Very nice looking kits for the 2wd.

Is there going to be an update on the 4wd platform?

Really interesting piece of kit! I guess after buying my first Xray since about ten years ago it may be time to get my first Schumacher since 25 years ago... It seems I am getting old! :p

Thanks mes and mattr,

I'll think about that!

Not high checking this thread any longer!:blush::thumbsup:

To get back to topic,

I realy like the new 2wd's too and looking foward to the EOS race here in austria in april, to see one in action...

Great job schumacher!

Youtube video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42SJiHHruTQ

(Embedding does not seem to work properly, I keep getting an error message)

Both cars look stunning in my personal opinion! Top job Schumacher Racing:thumbsup::drool:

It would be great to see the weight bias comparisons between Layout-01 and Layout-03.

I think Layout-03 (ala B6 etc) COULD be better suited to high-bite than Layout-01? Simply because with the Lipo in front of the motor, you can add a 50-80g weight under the Lipo creating more forward weight overall. It's quite hard to do that when you have the motor in the middle!

Thoughts?

Screenshot for demonstration -

http://i.imgur.com/8qh6SUa.jpg

Very exciting. The cars look great. :thumbsup: I've just started racing and both tracks I go to are outdoor Astro and each race has either been wet or icy. I was wondering if the KD would be the car of choice in these conditions or will Astro always have more grip than dirt regardless of weather condition?

If your tracks of choice are always slippery, the KD may indeed be the way to go. Otherwise, the KC might be a good choice with the addition of a ball diff for wet races. This way you'll retain more steering, which is key to fast lap times.
Wet or sandy astro can be more slippery than a well-groomed dirt track, but the right tyres like Schumacher silvers or Ballistic greens or pinks make a difference for sure. :)

Thanks for the reply, lots to learn :) Most of my problems getting round a track are due to my lack of skill. Having talked to some seasoned racers who have run both gear boxes on the rc10b6 and have chosen the dirt version over the lay down gear box for all surfaces but I guess it comes down to driving style and personal preference. I like the thought of getting the motor back as far as possible to get max gyro effect from the motor for rear wheel traction then using slim light weight lipos to keep weight drown and weights up front to get the front traction right in corners?
The nice thing about the KD or KC is which ever you choose they use the same chassis so you can alway get the alternate gear box if you want to convert it from one to the other.

For sure you could throw a lot of weight forwards on Layout-3 like that, but you could get the same balance with less overall weight by using Layout-1 with a LCG LiPo fully forwards.

One thing's for sure Layout-4 gives us an option with more rear bias than was possible with the KF2.

Another consideration is the impact of the torque effect from the motor in the different positions. Of course all layouts are now reverse motor rotation. You could match the weight distribution across a few of those layouts, but they could still feel different.

The motor rotation is going to be most unknown change regardless of which position is used, I am not sure if they have tried to do too much, how many of us actually change motor position once we have built and installed the electrics.
Would we be thinking that a conventional layout with three gear transmission and along the lines of the KD would be on our wish list.
I know it is boring but a three gear non belt drive would on order now with out a doubt

I guess the beauty of the design is that you don't have to use every layout.

I think a really good point was made earlier about position 3 being incredibly flexible if weight is added.

I think the KC has everything really, but it is probably not necessary to use it all to be competitive at club level. But for those like me who like to tinker, you can!

:thumbsup:

You don't think 4 gear is still of some use in some situations?

I found that with position 3 (which looks much like MM on the KF2) the position of the battery meant that adding weight under it made no difference to the front/rear weight distribution. It is virtually in the middle of the car.

Adjustment options certainly are one of the positives of Shuey's new platform. Buying another complete gearbox probably will not be cheap, but it is easier to hide from the missus than a second car! ;)
If you frequently run on slippery tracks, a dirt car will be the buggy of choice, but you cannot beat one of the dedicated high-grip cars on their own turf. Even with a blinky 13.5 turn set-up and a borrowed transmitter I was quicker with an old yz-2 on a cautious test drive than with my modified and properly adjusted B5M. I'd rather choose a slower motor than opting for a stand-up gearbox if the traction is there. IMHO corner speed is what reduces lap times on almost any track, this is one of the reasons why RM cars have become an endangered species. ;)

There is a KD to KC conversion kit £179.00 listed so buying a KD and the conversion kit makes for two reasonable priced cars.

one car two options ;-)

i have gone for two cars, rather pay the extra and have both cars set up, one chassis and two potions will still need set up changes

Love the front wing attachment !:thumbsup:

Having watched the lads using this car first time out at the UK Masters at Worksop, I was very impressed. Car seemed locked in at the rear, and stable both on power and under braking with the motor in position 4. The pace was there, with Greg unlucky not to win from TQ, with an error on the last lap. Really looking forward to getting this, looks really race-able.

So the big question is, at club level is the kc so much better than the already good kf2 to justify paying approx £150 to upgrade ?

Won't be long until we find out. I'll get some feedback up on here from club level.

Feedback would be great as I run 3 kf2's with my sons so this upgrade would be financially 3 times more painful.