Returning to Racing
 

Hi,

I am looking for some general advice, I am thinking seriously about starting to race after a good 25 year break. Clearly things have moved on dramatically since the early 90's based on all the internet research I have done. I have to admit my head is spinning with it all.

So.......

What I would really like is for someone to make me a list of everything I would need to get back into racing from complete scratch. For example, back in the day I ran three sets of 1700 batteries, what would I need now? What motor would be best, it was a stock 27T I ran as was the rules at the time. How much can expect to pay for it all?

Any advice would be greatfully appreciated, thanks.

Welcome back!

I'm maybe not the best to compile a list, I'm fairly new back too after a similar time away (wife, mortgage, kids!)and still changing over to modern equipment (2.4 radio and metal geared servos etc)

Deciding if you want to go 2wd or 4wd is a start (or both!).

Battery wise, lipos are kings now, no Nicad to be seen, and with 6000+ mah available, you don't need to worry about tuning gear ratios so the battery lasts the race.

Welcome back to racing, here is a list, apart from the first two they are not in any order:

1/ Find a local club

2/ Visit and find out what cars run there I recommend starting with 2WD

3/ Buy a car one that others run to help with setup and spares, new or second hand.

4/ Lipo Batteries - around 4500mah min 50c recommend 70c+ make does not matter very much. You will probably either need a shorty battery or saddles depending on the car. I recommend shorties as they are more flexible and some cars only fit shorties. You can race a battery and then charge it up between races so you could manage with one but I recommend getting two.

5/ Charger, most are the "four button" type and can be very cheap £30 or so. Initially any will do. You will need a Lipo sack - a bag to charge batteries in at most race meetings.

6/ Speedo and Motor, again make does not matter but ESC should be around 120A and motor depends on the class, track and your ability. Most fast drivers will run a 7.5 or 6.5 in a 2WD now but all you need is 8.5 while getting up to speed, if want to start more gently a 13.5 brushless would be close to your old 27 turn but more torque.

7/ Transmitter and Receiver these are critical IMO as they are your interface with the car and there are three serious popular makes, Futaba, Sanwa and Spectrum. KO Propo is also out there but not as popular and quite expensive. Big choice here is sticks or wheel. You will probably be a sticks person if you are old school but there is a much bigger choice in wheel radios not to mention cheaper ones. All are now 2.4Ghz so no crystals.

8/ Servo, you need a reasonably fast metal geared servo but don't need high torque I would tend to a recognised make here, Corally, Savox, Spectrum or similar. Very cheap servos are slow and can strip their gears and make driving horrible.

In terms of cost, the cheapest way is to watch the for sale section on here and jump on one of the many selling up threads that pop up. You might get the whole setup for a significant saving.

If you buy new you can get cheap electrics from the likes of Hobby King but far better is to support one of the UK RC racing shops all of which have excellent websites, personal support and will give you great advice.

As I've said, I'm just getting back into it too.

I've done some research and here's me so far, if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

I've litterally just upgraded to 2.4 as my 27 packed up, and went for a 'Tamco tac330' which as far as I could tell, is a rebadged,more expensive 'Core cr151'?

Is this set up any good? At £50 ,it seemed to tick the boxes the more expensive ones did, and with a 20 memory, meant I could potentially get 19 more recievers and 'bind' them all,then be able to run all my cars off the one handset.....almost.
I tried a new fangled 2.4 wheel controller thing, crashed alot, flung it in the loft.

Brushless motor wise, am I right in saying it's a ' .5' turn motor to look for , as they are 540 type and the full turns are a kind of a 380 in a 540 can, I almost went for one as they are a bit cheaper.
KV = number of rpm per volt.

ESC wise, you may need a programme card or laptop to programme, they've gone a bit 'fast and furious' these days and even have effectively launch control and ABS! (Although far cry from the MSC 3 steps!)
I went for a castle 'mamba max pro' mainly because it seemed to be capable and scored it cheap off ebay!

A lipo's 'C' rating, is the discharge load rate, so , if the motor will only pull '50c' then anything above that is potentially not needed (although I've gone for a 135c as it was a fiver dearer).

You'll need to readjust your understanding of speed.

I stopped in about 86 or 87. Started again in 2011 I think.

My super duper rocket ship modified 4wd from 1987 would have been left for dead on the start line by the fairly bog standard ready to run 2wd I bought in 2011.

The cars I run now make that 2wd look extremely pedestrian...... and I'm still not a very quick driver. But I like buying speed. And then breaking it.

Having raced in the early 90's and coming back into the hobby after 20 years the biggest difference is the batteries. Lipos are amazing!. I used to struggle to get 5 mins out of a 4wd with a decent motor on nicads. Now you could probably double that time if not even more!

Seems fine but no experience with that make, main things are range, glitching and consistent responses.

You can get 540 brushless motors as x.5 and x.0, I ran a 7.0 for ages in my 2WD. Most are x.5 but big thing to look for is sensored or sensorless. Sensored is best as it gives finer control. Confirm KV = rpm per volt but it is only a rough gauge of a motor, torque and feel is harder to measure.

Agree a program card is probably needed. Castle are popular in the bashing scene but I have not used one for racing. It is sensored so should be fine.

You are correct the motor determines how much current is drawn, you just need to make sure the ESC and Battery can deliver it. A 4500mah battery rated at 50c can deliver 225 amps but it will probably have a peak rating and a continuous rating, the peak might be double that. Most ESC have continuous and peak ratings as well and will have a max motor capacity either stated as kv or wind number.

Also, note that battery manufacturers are sometimes generous with their power ratings. I have raced 25c batteries that spank another brand 100c on punch.

what a a sensible reply all newbie/returnees to RC should read this and digest before running off to spend heard earned pennies

i especially approve of th second to last quote buying secondhand from local racers .If their local and know you are going to race their old gear they will be less likely to off load poor gear knowing you will hassle them every time it fails !! also if it good gear you become an apprentice and you have a experienced guru to give you advice

regards dave

Thank you to everyone and the advice you have provided.

I am full of question so here goes:

What would a good radio set be for an initial setup, say £100

Likewise for a motor/ESP, I am thinking 8.5t as advised above.

Lipos I am ok with I think, but what would a good recommended charger be? Is a dual needed if I run with two batteries?

Thanks

First question back at you, sticks or wheel? The problem with sticks is there is not much between very cheap and very expensive. Also I am not a stick user so have no experience. You have lots of choice on wheel radios, for your budget I would personally get a Futaba PL3 or Sanwa MX-V or Spectrum DX4C.

If you want a recommendation on ESC/Motor everyone will push they stuff they use. I use Corally Cerix Pro speedos and Corally Dynospeed Mod X 3.0 motors but I am a Team Corally supported driver so I would say that :D. Seriously, pretty much any major make will do you just fine. Look for dealer support, and what the local racers run to see what is reliable and also what your budget is.

I started with a simple Core UAC 50 charger, mains powered and around £50 or so. There are many chargers that are around the £40 mark that will all do the job just fine, the Corally Race 60 is one ;). You don't need a dual charger unless there are two of you racing at the same time or running multiple classes. You can charge up two batteries before your race day, run practice , swap batteries and while you run the first heat, recharge the first battery and so on throughout the meeting.

Thanks again for all your good advice.

I am a stick man, so will probably go for the equivalent of your recommendations in stick form.

Transponders is one other thing, I notice they are used now for lap tracking etc. Do clubs have a specific version or does any one work ok? I assume they all have unique codes?

Do motors/ESC/Lipo's have any correlation with each other, I.e. Will any combination work or do they need to be matched?

will try to explain lapcounting !!

majority of clubs use AMB systems (now technically called MYLAPS after a rebranding/takeover )

there are various incarnations of the system AMB20 RC2/RC3/RC4

AMB 20 is the earliest system and is little used nowadays and tends to be found in small local clubs and is an "analogue" system and transponder are usually club owned "handouts"
RC2/3/4 is the most common and RC 4 is the latest incarnation

Two manufactures can supply transponders (the actual piece that does the counting)

AMB them selves ALL versions of AMB will work on the latest Rc4 system however the latest transponder affectionately known as "Purcy" is NOT backwards compatible to earlier systems

MRT (a british company ) and highly respected also manufacture transponders ,once again they make two versions

the early version PTX will work on all AMB RC systems except RC4(and AMB20 ) the latest version
MRT now produce PTX NS (new style ) which will work on RC4 (I also think it is backwards compatabile but im not 100% sure )

I have some genuine AMB for BRCA events that use AMB RC4 and MRT PTX transponders for club racing that use earlier versions

bit complicated but I hope I have explained

nearly all /ESC/Motors will interface quite happily (neither can recognize which brand its attached to if its not the same

only thing is type sensored or sensorless, sensoredusually is domain of offroad and on road sensorless tends to be "bashing" territory or 1/8 th scale electric or bigger where finesse and adjustability isnot quite so critical
(no offence intended to bashers or the 1/8 scale boys !!

regards dave

welcome back to racing!

Any motor/ESC combination will work

For sticks, I'd keep an eye out on here for a Sanwa Gemini X second hand with reciever. Bloody good handset and around/under £100 second hand.

Maybe post in wanted section?

It all seems complicated at first but is SO MUCH easier to maintain now compared to then...electrics are pretty much set and forget while you're learning.

Good luck/enjoy

Pinion gears, do the motors come with ratio charts to use, in other words how will I know which pinion to use based on the motor/spur gear combo?

Sorry for all the questions, I know they are basic stuff but I just don't want to buy the wrong things!

Cant offer anybreal advice but to say well done for asking the questions some others (me included) have not wanted to ask! I have learned quite a bit from this post!

Hi there, with gear ratios I have used the set up sheets on the Schumacher website and for other cars the petit rc website, most cars if you get the instruction manual if you are buying secondhand or on schumachers website you can download the manual for each car they will have a ratio chart in the back for gearing but you would adjust teeth up or down depending on motor, I run a Schumacher K2 and a KF2 and have just followed the set up sheets for the surface I'm racing on and the motor wind. Also ask at the club you are planing to race at if you are buying a popular car at that club as most of the other guys will usually be happy to help out

Thanks, that makes good sense to me.

Next......

What is a good mid range servo to get, and his do I know if I should use a small one or a normal one? Is it a space thing or a weight thing?

Also ESCs?

I have looked at loads of them at 120A, why does it need to be about that rating, there are dozens around the £65 mark?

If I run a speed passion v3 8.5t, what would a good ESC be with a 4800 2S shorty (90c)?

Lots of questions I know, just not sure which way to go and looking for independent advice rather than calling a shop as they might just try to push me in a preferred direction that suits them.

Thanks again.

The servo size is more to do with the space in the car. Some 2WD are quite tight to fit in everything so a small servo helps. I have used Savox, Spectrum and Corally all with success and no issues in std and low profile sizes.

I have used more Savox than anything else and it is what I started with. They are mid range and they are often on sale here on oOple. Look for a 1258 higher torque or 1257 higher speed. They will both work well and are Titanium geared so very robust. If you need a low profile servo then the 1251 is perfect.

For your ESC 120A gives plenty of capacity for any motor with no risk of drawing too much current. You can run a lower amp ESC if you like, I am only recommending what will work reliably and repeatably and keep up with you as you get faster. If budget is tight then by all means drop the spec. I started with a 60A ESC but soon upgraded as I got better so ended up buying twice.

If you run the SP V3 8.5T motor then any sensored ESC will work. Speed Passion are a popular good value make so why not get one of their ESC as well, see if you can get a bundle deal. The Reventon ESC are good and work well with the R or the S rated to a 7.5T motor. I have not used them but plenty have.

A servo from the likes of Xpert or Savox won't set you back a lot compared to other brands, low profile or full size is purely a matter of space saving. A conventional 2wd off road car will have more than enough space for a full size servo and they're generally your best bet, less likely to strip gears. Torque is more important than speed, but try and go for something with a response time of 0.1 seconds or less.

The "A" essentially indicates how much motor you can use with the ESC, each speed controller will usually have a turn limit stated somewhere but 120A is perfectly suitable for off road - you won't be going below a 5.5 even in a 4wd. This may come across as a little biased but the RC Concept SC120 is brilliantly priced compared to similar competition level speedos, and really well priced ESC/motor/programming box combo packages are available from LMR. Sky RC Toros are also popular ESC choices, similarly priced to the SC120 with a lot of good reviews.

I recently started trying to get back into racing after 20 years mainly to let my lads have a blast. If you've got loads of money to waste then go for corally or any of the other named brands electrics wise. Personally these seem a complete waste of money I've bought 2 esc's 2 motors and 6 sets of cells (probably too many) from hobbyking and they've been great for my 2 lads to learn, I stuck a fast motor in one of the cars and it was rapid.

I will be buying a esc shortly and will be getting a hobbyking one again it's a no brianer, let's face it they are probably all made in China anyway
In fact there is a thread in the wanted section about 120amp esc off ebay for £15 think they are hobbywing or something like that clones that you can flash so they are identically to the more expensive ones

Well of course they'll be made in China... that's not to say they'll all be identical and bulletproof.

It's all well and good to recommend "the £15 one" you can find on eBay, but aiming for the absolute cheapest you can find on eBay with the notion "it's probably all just the same" could land you with some dodgy products. All you need to do is flick through some threads on R/C Tech - there are a few good Xerun clones that people have purchased and used to good effect, whilst similarly there are a few cheap ESCs that have ended up frying themselves in an instant.

A lot of big name speedos are overpriced, but finding a good deal on a decent 120A speedo through a UK distributor (or indeed supporting a local model shop), with the peace of mind of a warranty, is a safe option. You could also buy secondhand off here or off a local racer, as they're likely to be using quality equipment that, most importantly, works.

I'm not suggesting in any way that a big name ESC is necessary, or you need to outlay a large lump of cash to get top-end equipment, it's just best to exercise caution when buying the absolute cheapest thing you can find.

This one came up on the other thread. Not heard of a bad one yet.

http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route...product_id=206

Can pick them up for 60-70 dollars. Not bottom dollar cheap, but very very good for the money.

I think I am going to go with the Speed Passion Reventon R ESC matched with a 8.5 SP v3 BL Competition. It seems to be a good match and probably as fast as would want to go to start with.

Also going to go for the Savox SC-1258, it seems a good option.

Overlander for a Lipo and the Core RC UAC50 charger

I think this will be a good strong beginners setup.

Hi there, all good except the charger, I'm quite new to this too but wish I'd spent a bit more on a charger to start with as I run two classes so have 4 lipos, when charging the night before racing especially if balancing this can take forever, and putting back into storage after, wish I had gone for a duo or quad charger first as I'm now having to splash another 100 plus for a decent new charger on top of the original 50 quid on the core rc UAC 50, dont get me wrong the charger is great just hindsight is a wonderful thing.

That's a good point, I thought I could run with just one batt but the more I read, I think two is the way to go.

Can I ask what dual charger you are look at?

Duo chargers can be a false economy, if one channel pops, you are left with a big, useless solo charger.

Maybe look at PSU and two DC chargers. (Rather than getting an AC/DC or AC only charger, which tend to be more expensive than the equivalent DC charger.)

Or you might be ok with the duo!

And FWIW, the charger i use goes from storage to full in ~40 minutes. Or from raced to full in ~25. Give or take.

Rarely bother with charging to full the night before, maybe from storage to ~8V, then finish off while setting up everything else.

Good info on lipos here I really need to start discharging them

http://rogershobbycenter.com/lipoguide/

Hi, can see your your point but occasionally I have a Lipo that can take up to an hour and a half to balance not all the time but once in a while and if I'm waiting for that one I still have 3 lipos I can't charge, and when I get home from racing I will be able to put all 4 on storage mode and leave it til they are all done rather than have to keep changing them over, just seems easier somehow

What do you mean storage mode?

I think it is going to come down to personal choice for me . I am trying to put a shopping list together and keep the total cost down. I don't mind paying out quality items, but I am not sure what to go for now.

I think I will stick to my original charger and if I need to, I can always get another one if I think I will need it. I am only going to be practice running for a good few weeks, until next year anyway at which point I will probably get another Lipo and charger to race with.

Hi Daz, previous post was open a while before I posted and was meant for previous poster, storage mode is on your charger, it discharges the battery down to 7.6v or charges them back up to 7.6v if they have been discharged below this voltage as you should always leave a little charge in them, you should never leave a Lipo below 6.0v as this will start to kill it and it may not even charge again and if you leave them fully charged they will start to degrade and you will shorten their life expectancy of 300-400 charges, if they start to swell this is what is happening and the more they swell the more chance of a lovely fire its all in the link you put on, I've seen it before. Very good explanation of lipos and how to care for them.

Hi ya, as I said it's a good charger no issues with mine had it for just under a year now, just from my experiences so far it's one of the only things I wish I'd invested in a bit more at the start, as you say it's personal choice and there's nowt wrong with the charger you've chosen, happy racing!!!

Cheers navek just wanted to check it was discharging we were talking about :thumbsup:

Started discharging one that had done 3 races and had been going for 6000 seconds before I gave up :thumbdown:

Hi Daz, yeah it will do that on a fully charged pack as the discharge rate is usually a lot lower than the charge rate usually 1 or 2 amps, best to run it down in a car for 5 minutes and then it stick on storage mode from there. There is a specific storage mode on most chargers rather than using the discharge cycle this usually balances the cells at 3.8v each as well so you don't get one cell at 4.6v and one at 3.2v which would mean it's close to not charging again

Core RC charger is great for starting out.

I had one for first couple of years, then bought a duo charger for when I run both 2WD and 4WD at same club night, otherwise I can't keep up!

So all my parts arrived, here come more questions:

Do I solder the cables from the ESC directly onto the motor, the plugs/sockets don't seem to match, or should I solder separate cables to the motor and plug them into the cables on the ESC?

I assume I am ok to take off the battery plug and solder on the G4 males with some heat shrink?

I also assume I am ok to cut the length of all the wires to suit my install? Does that go for the servo lead and ESC lead to the receiver?

I have a fan for the motor and the ESC has a fan too, how do I power both as the ESC only has one fan output?

Thanks

Think we need some pictures!

Right, just had a look. The reventon R you'll just need to solder the cables to the solder cups.

The motor comes with three 3.5mm connectors on the back, you'll need them on the other end of the cable so you can connect to the motor. Those motors you need to use the connectors.

And as for cutting the battery plug off, do it carefully and FEMALES on the battery, males on the ESC. (And whats G4?)

One fan will run off the ESC, the other you can plug into your Rx. Should have at least one spare port, if not two.

ESC and Servo leads can be shortened, but its fairly easy to tuck them out of the way, so you can use them later in new cars. Make motor and battery cables as short as you realistically can, but with a bit of slack.

Also, it's worth making the battery leads the right length so you can't plug them in back to front.......

But, as per my last post, pictures will help!

Matt, many thanks. That helps a lot.

Just need to buy a longer sensor lead as the one with the motor will not reach.

I will post a pic up once I have sorted everything.

Thanks everyone for all your help and advice.

if nothing else, pop a photo of the battery up, and what you plan to do with it before you do it!

Guy i know decided to cut the cable off his battery to replace the connector and blew his cable cutters up.

And i've seen male connectors on batteries before now (only once)