Losi 22 - 3 steering issues.
 

I'm enjoying racing my Losi - mainly indoors so far on slippy / low grip and carpet.

What I and others I know running the car are finding is a lack of high speed turn in and also a tendancy for the car to push on as opposed to turn when accelerating through corners.

How are other people finding the car?

It's annoying as I can't carry the speed I'd like and also keep tight lines as the car runs wide.

I've seen Ellis Staffords car loaded with weight to the front - obviously to combat this at the Euros (I think)

I have added weight and a front wing.
I've tried less rear toe, kick up plate, v-la positions etc.

also - the car has terrible bump steer if built as kit - changing things cannot totally remove it either.

i'm not having issues with mine, running on carpet
Use cut staggers on the front, kit shock positions and springs 27.5wt oil
use the 20 degree front kick up shim. and have stuck 20 grams of weight on my servo.

This was to see if I could tease more steering out of it and it worked. so i'll probs get the brass 20 degree kick up shim.

It does seem to pull wide on some tighter corners, but this could be my driving

Have you tried adjusting your diffs to suit. A slightly looser diff will give you better rotation.

I have been running a gear diff in mine with 5k oil but yesterday went up to 10k on a recommendation by a friend but lost a load of rotation and also high speed steering the the track was slippery yesterday. In high grip im sure it would be fine but does make quite a difference

I ran mine for first time yesterday on a mixture of carpet and really slippy gym floor.

I ran a 50g front bulkhead, 52g lipo weight with battery in forward position. Moved the rear camber link up to +1.

Car felt really well balanced. Had as much steering as I would expect on gym hall floor and had plenty of rear end grip.

Very pleased with first run.

Cheers for replies chaps.

What's the 50g bulkhead? Is there a part no?

Re steering - I ran at Worksop yesterday and it was again an issue on fast sweeping corners - the car won't hook in - it pushes on through the corners.

Do a test in your cars.

Pick it up and move one side / wishbone up to see the amount of bump steer - you will be shocked. What's happening - is that as the car leans into the corner - compressing the outer front wishbone - the bump steer is actually turning the wheel out of the corner - the wrong way!!!

I compared the Losi to a YZ2 - on the YZ it has very slight positive bump steer - so as the car leans away from the corner - it turns into the corner.

On the Losi - it has massive negative bump steer - so wheel turns away from the corner:(

Removing spacer on axle side track rod helps - but it's still there.

I know a number of people struggling with steering in low grip tracks - to the point where some have decided to run a different car....

I'm hoping in Astro etc it may not be a problem.

Re running diff looser - bad idea - last thing you want is the diff slipping - I know as I've already had to rebuild and replace balls on mine.

Which gear diff fits?

Losi RTR with some slight sanding down of the diff case (option I went for)

Serpent with shims (according to rc tech.net)

And I know of a AE gear Diff fitted

the serpent gear diff fits perfectly. might need a few shims to take out the side to side play. I put an AE gear diff in my 2.0 but it had a tight spot which prompted me to try the Serpent one. it also has the advantage of not leaking after a few runs.

Andy, part number for brass bulkhead.

http://www.dms-racing.com/index.php?...ategory_id=560

Cheers for the part no. :)

Any idea where to get hold of one - can't seem o find any stock :(

I got mine from DMS. Not sure where else you can get them.

Sorry

We have more ordered and they should be with us by the end of the week, they can be pre-ordered via the website

First run
 

Hi Andy
I ran my 22.30 for the first time at Worksop on Sunday and struggled with it
I ended up with front camber link on the inner hole with 4mm washers
For the final and it was the best it had been all day
Not the best result I've had but finished 4th in the D final
Will see how she goes at Yorcc in 2 weeks next run out

Hi.

I think I saw your car towards the end of the day - plain white shell?

I tried to find you after the finals - but i think you must have packed up :)

Keep me posted how you get on - i've run at Batley on the slippy floor and the car pushes on.
I have ordered the 50g brass bulkhead and also Ellis Stafford gave me a few tips - basically to try high rear link position and long link at the front (i'm running the long VLA which helped)

I found exactly the same with mine. The car was easy to drive but it just didn't suit me.

Why do you have to sand the diff to fit? the ball diff is the exact same part numbers as the 1.0 and 2.0 version and the gear diff fits them with no problem.

Its just a touch to wide. Only needs a very little bit off it otherwise it will have the risk of binding in the transmission case once the screws are pulled up tight

Hi Andy
Yes that was my car. I was helping josh rose with his ,he had his best run in the final after changing to long vla and top link in the inner hole with no washers under ball stud with rear link higher than stock.

So bump steer;
bump in (outer wheel turns into a corner) and
bump out (outer wheel turns out of a corner)
Bump steer adjusted by washers on the steering hub and the axle height height.

So the problem you're having is not to do with the bump steer, personally my 22 turns up its own arse with kit settings in the wet, how many Ackerman washers do you have? If you reduce the washers the more Ackerman it has, this will chill it out in the dry but seeing as you're after steering, try adding 1.5mm and move the front link in, this will sharpen up the front. Hth

Car was initially built as kit re washers on all links.

What i've done to reduce the negative bump steer - is remove the 2mm washers on the steering hubs. This helped - but still not ideal.

I showed the car to a couple of very experienced F1 drivers that I trust and know that they know their stuff re setup and they were amazed at the amount of negative bump steer the car has if set as per kit - it's a lot. They showed me how the car will effectively turn the wrong was as it leans into a corner and we compared the Losi with their Team C cars and friends YZ2's.

The difference in how the front geometry moves throughout the suspension travel was significant. Ideally i'd like to raise the steering link on the steering rack - but cannot do that - all i could do was lower the spindle end.

I'm no set-up expert - but i'm pretty convinced the front end geometry of the car isn't ideal - all the angles are all over the place when it's on the bench! The steering links are at an odd angle when viewed from above and they sit with the outer end higher than the inner by default when running the car at around 19mm ride height.

It all just seems a bit off to me.

Bump steer
 

Andy I have checked mine and I have no bump steer issues. Mine is built kit apart from front brass pivot block.

Can you do a wee video?

Dave

Uploaded a video to my Dropbox - this is with the car pretty much kit (apart from the camber link moved out for the long VLA) - removing the 2mm washer on the steering end helps a little as this lowers the outside steering link - but that's as much as I can do?

Any thoughts? Steering assembly is as per kit - all checked etc.

CLICK the link below to see the video.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15062770/losi.mp4

That video has an error Andy.

Can you send it to my email?

I'll pm you it.

Video working now - it was still uploading when I posted initially :)

Link again:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15062770/losi.mp4

Great video Andy, I can't help with your issue, but I now know a lot more about bump steer :thumbsup:

*Just checked my YZ-2 and your right, little bit of positive bump steer

Yes very good video Andy, take heart that it doesn't happen on all Losi cars. Just checked my Jrx Pro which I was working on and it has a small amount of positive bump steer.

Would be nice to hear a Team Driver comment.

Just had a look at my KF - it stays pretty much straight throughout all travel - which seems correct - as one could add or remove washers to add a little positive or negative bump steer as at least you are starting from zero ;)

I wish I could help you with your issue Andy but all I can do is thank you for uploading that video as you've clarified my understanding of bump steer completely.

You mention the car has the long VLA - have you tried going back to the kit VLA and seeing if the problem is the same.

I remember on my cr2 having bump steer issues that was to do with the vla and looking at where everything pivots in your video makes me think it's to do with the hub pins affecting the steering turnbuckle link in some way so that it pulls in when under compression which is giving the bump out

Also have you double checked you've got the spindles on the right sides of the car as can't really see in the video with wheels fitted

Take a picture with wheels off if you can from top and side of possible

Checked again re front spindles and hubs - it's all correct on my car - in fact I don't think it's possible to build it wrong as the steering would not work or would bind / catch other parts - the spindles sit flush and locate up against the hubs at full lock - the are designed to only work 1 way around.

When my car is sat level - with a low ride height (18 or 19mm) the front steering arms have the outer ball stud higher than the inner - so the steering links are both angled slightly making a 'v' shape as you look from the front.

Is this the same on other peoples cars - the outer ends of the steering link higher than inner?

Looks like your getting positive camber when the suspension moves upward. Try lengthing the upper rod. Move the chassis ballstud to the inward hole and the caster block ballstud to the outermost. That will give less camber gain. Try this first. If it doesn't work try lowering the inner ball stud. Less spacers or none, and or add to the outer ballstud. That will allow the top of the tire to pull in under suspension travel. Some pics of the suspension with the body off and tire off may help as well.

Bob

Make your camber link longer than your steering link for more steering I am running long vla and 1/b with 2mm under ball studs 27.5 oil and silver front Spring inside on tower and middle on arm brass kick 25 plate

Great thread. I checked my car and it had the same problem but not as pronounced so i removed the washers and the steering is now neutral throughout the range... Or at least it looks that way. I am also on long VLA.

Maybe you can post on rctech. I'm very interested to hear what Frank Root has to say. Surely he'll have a solution.

Me and the guys I know at our club all removed the bump 2mm steer washers as our track is indoor, pretty flat with old carpet/slippy floor.

Steering is now neutral throughout the range also, to the naked eye.

Switching the L/R steering spindles to get the "low" setting could also be worth a try. For now, I removed the bump steer spacers and put both spindle/hub carrier spacers to the top and the car feels good on the bench. Today it is too windy outside and the forecast says there'll be rain from noon, but I hope to return to the track next weekend.

Or you could just remove the bottom washer on the spindle and put it on top? That should lower it maybe 1mm?

That's what I did, and it should help. Turning around the spindles seems to be another option to adjust bump steer, which I have yet to try.