SC rules
 

Just been on the website to look at the points and clicked on the rules page for a quick read. These have been the same for the last 3 years but one rule has changed which i dont believe anyone is aware of. Rule 5.2.6 is this a computer glitch ? It's always been 5 rounds to count from 7 how come it's changed to 4 from 7:o

I think it is to do with the fact there was only 6 confirmed rounds when the season kicked off this season and it was best 4 from 6, with the extra round then added in and people already planning around those dates etc, it was left as 4 from the amended 7, thats what we was told at the ARC round I believe when we asked anyway and everyone that I know was aware of that, especially those who had read the rules from round one onwards and planned their calendars around them as many do.....

Half + 1? :confused: guess that wouldn't really work

I personally think it's a crap rule, on the basis that those who support the series by attending all rounds can be beaten by drivers who only attend 4 rounds out of 7?

Some may argue thats fair as to be beaten in less rounds means they done better than you, yes partly true but as we see at most rounds luck also plays a part in finishing positions and points accrual to all bar those at the very front due to some of the dodgy starts that happen in short course.

As a small series those who support it by entering all the rounds should be rewarded by keeping more of the points the earned over the season.

added to that also I was told that it was always meant to be 7 rounds but only 6 were confirmed at the time the dates went out, so if it was always meant to be 7rds then it should be at least 5 to count surely?

On another note the computer issues was a shambles at Mendip, lots of errors and mistakes upsetting people all the way up and beyond the trophy presentation, and twice this season I've been stiffed in the last final of the day by a decision to suddenly spread out the grid putting the cars in front EVEN further in front? Not cool in my book. I think the whole rule book needs looking at and sorting out then properly enforced throughout the season. Competitors should not have to point out cars running illegal wings etc to race control that should be sorted before the car hits the track?

I know it's meant to be a fun series but as more people come along and get better it's getting more competitive so it need managing so that it can be both fun and competitive yet fair and transparent.

Rant over.

Justin i just bought the Tekno 410.3 , i will have to run it on the Slash electronics as the wife will be proper angry( i did not ask i just did it ) If you upgrade the motor help a brother out ha ha , My motor is 4 pole (maybe castle) is an hack available ??

Actually the rule book is not specific enough on this. It was my first SC race and I checked the rules and they say:

Rear Wings - No bolt on after market or home-made rear spoilers / rear wings allowed. Manufacturer rear spoilers / rear wings moulded into the finished bodyshell are allowed.

My wing was the kit wing that came with the Durango body so a manufacturer wing not an aftermarket or home made wing but not moulded on the body I was a bit undecided so left it to see what happened, it got challenged so I took it off.

I still think the rule is poorly worded. It should say something to the effect "All bolt on wings are banned" not just home made and aftermarket.

I completely agree Justin.

At the end of the day several people asked for clarification on the number of rounds taking place and how many to count before the season start and due to the 7th round not being confirmed we were told 4 out of 6 (as last year) or 5 out of 7 if the 7th round was confirmed............I have not seen or been told at any point that it was back down to 4 from 7.
We held back on booking holidays because of this championship as I wanted to do all of the rounds, now after rd5 I find out I could have dropped a round earlier in the year and still had 2 dropped rounds to play with (which i'll need! ��) is annoying

I reckon it's not been updated properly for this year as last year was 4 out of 6 according to the results. 2013 was 5 out of 7, 2012 was 4 out of 6 and 2011 was 5 out of 7.

So I would hazard a guess it would be 5 out of 7 based on the previous championships.

I agree the wording could be simplified however it does clearly state moulded into the shell which directly means unless its molded it's not allowed. Many driver run Durango and none have the wing fitted due to that rule.

These issues are damaging for our series and require immediate attention in my opinion.

Not sure about it being an issue...

If the rules currently say 4 rounds to count then that is what it is for this year at least, you can't change them near the end of the season!!

Wasn't really an issue till this thread was put up, as is normally the case on forums.

Short course is about fun, why not keep it at that!

At the risk of being pedantic, saying something is permitted does not mean another unspecified variation is forbidden especially when third party and home made wings have already been explicitly forbidden. In contracts it is called permission by omission. As I said the rule is not specific enough. I am not arguing for wings, I don't really care and I ran faster without the wing ultimately so I am unconvinced it makes a difference. I just had it fitted from building the kit a year or so back and thought it looked nice.

You do realise JK that the guy in question was in heat 1 and attending his first EVER SC national and to quote you juts a few weeks ago, with your "you get no manual with RC" quote, the guy did not know, he brought a body, had it sprayed and mounted it, it came with a wing and he installed it. He was asked to remove it during round one and did so.... wheres the issue? Nothing like making a newbie to the series feel welcome eh......

People should concentrate on things that effect them directly rather than complaining about rules 5 rounds into the series. Never mind trophies, they should dish out dummies at the next round for those who like to spit them out..

Also, regards to the comments I read about people who have raced at all rounds being beaten in the series by those who have only done 4 rounds, it may be best to do the maths on this one before typing away.

In 4wd (after 4 rounds) the lowest person with 3 rounds counting so far is Sue Rutherford (sorry Sue :blush:) who has 505 pts, if she adds even the equivalent score to her lowest (160) twice to her counting score she would end up with 825 which is impossible to be beaten by anyone with just four rounds to her five. With four rounds Peter (sorry Pete) is the lowest driver with all 4 full rounds so far and he is on 693 that cannot be beat by anyone doing three rounds either.....

In 2wd (after 4 rounds on the website) the lowest person with 3 full rounds counting Richard Chillingworth (sorry Richard) who has 466, and if you added two more of his average score (155) which would give him 776 and only the current series leader (Jamie Hall) has that many points before points from Sunday are uploaded and only Danny and Mark will surpass that after the fifth rounds scores are in too......

4 rounds from 7 will also allow far more people to complete the series too, where is the harm in that apart for another reason for the whinge brigade to come out in force....

The reason this is an issue for me is we all plan varying activities throughout the year wether that be racing several classes/series,holidays,family visits etc etc.

This issue, 4 from 6 or 5 from 7 was sorted on the 10/3/2015 when we were told by the organisers that if the 7th round went ahead we would be scored 5 from 7 ,if it was a 6 round series it was the best 4 out of 6. At that time the rules stated best 5 from 7, I double checked............between 10/3/2015 up until yesterday I had heard nothing different,there has been no announcement on any of the UKSN media outlets to state 4 from 7 nor has it been announced at any of the previous 5 events.............however it seems a few select people were informed & I personally think that's well out of order!

As far as I'm concerned, your right, you can't change the rules over halfway through the championship

Btw I'm not bothered by the points issue personally, I end up where I end up. If it had been publicly declared 4 from 7 prior to rd 1 I would not have made a murmur.

As for the wing issue,this maybe a reasonable edit:

Rear Wings - No bolt on, after market or home-made rear spoilers / rear wings allowed. Manufacturer rear spoilers / rear wings moulded into the finished bodyshell are allowed.

Spot the comma 😉

Slider, I agree with you fully that the organisation side hasn't been to the highest standard when sorting the required amount of rounds to count or announcing that rule. I attended the NDOR round knowing that I only had to do 4 rounds to compete, and this was the 2nd round of the championship.
So it has to be put down to when you viewed the rules as to if you knew or not.

However, it doesn't change the fact what is down is down and at least more people will complete the series.

Now I think it's time to get back to enjoying the fun sc nationals...

I agree with that, one of my mates and a sc regular would probably have done more rounds if he knew only 4 rds were req to complete the championship.

:thumbsup:

**colourful language removed **

Yes we want drivers to support the series, but wheres the incentive to enter all the rounds and support the clubs when almost half your scores get dropped at the end.

Anyway the point here is regarding the uncommunicated rule change? It may well be in the rules now as sone one said but it was different at the start of season and no communication made to advise anyone it had changed?

Rear wing
 

I asked the gentlemen in question to remove his wing after his first run which he did no harm he removed it before round 2 and tbh he admitted that it was his 1st Sc national and wasn't aware of the rule..

Like I said to the chap as long as it's removed after round 1 it's no bother tbh he was a very good driver and most welcom competitor.....

Don't see what all the fuss is about....

Jimmy the wing comment was purely there to point out the issues poor organisation/communication rather than a direct hit at the individual, as Darren pointed out.

Rounds
 

5 from 7 was the plan at ARC. Not was just dotting the I and crossing the T due to bad health of the organiser. 4 from 7 is a joke due to people planning travel and holidays to do a NATIONAL series. It's not club meet....and takes me to the fact that there needs to be consistent and tighter rule implimentation. It is a thankless task but NOT unachievable. 5 from 7. The END

I personally dont get everyone's gripe over 4 or 5 rounds counting and throwing away just under half your scores since in every other class it is half plus 1 to count and all other classes apply this philosophy - 1/10th off road is 4 from 6, 1/8th Buggy/E-Buggy/Truggy are all 3 from 5, 1/10th On Road is also 3 from 5 all are half plus 1.

Every other national series is either 5 or 6 rounds only, we in SC get to enjoy 7 rounds, giving us more racing than any other class and still apply the half plus 1 rule giving 4 from 7 (since you cannot run half a round) maybe we need even more and have 8 rounds next year so we can count 5 and keep to the half plus 1???

Either way, for anyone who has completed 5 or more they will still finish the series if it is 4, but all the guys who can only do 4 (due to the late date addition), well them guys get to complete the series too, where and what is the issue in that? Please explain......... How many people does this effect in the series, how many will only do only 4 rounds but not the 5, it is their opinion that matters most I guess. I am doing 6 rounds myself, so it does not bother me either way 4 or 5, (despite rumours being spread to the contrary)

Everyone states that SC is one of the most "fun" classes, anyone new to this section would not think so reading all this whinging and moaning and most of it from people who have done enough rounds for 4 or 5 anyway.....

I will arrange the dummies for A1 next month, if you have a favourite colour let me know in advance ;-)

The other thing to be aware of guys and those who have raced for some time will know this, but all this talk about tightening up the rules and implementations etc, rules being adhered too etc, dont always think the grass is always greener, since I have raced at various other national events in both 1/8th and 1/10th over the past and the strictness and rules are MUCH tighter.

The poor driving standards we have seen from time to time this year, drivers being took out and left for dust, deliberate take outs, poor marshalling (even no marshalling by some), drivers leaving the rostrum during a race, the list goes on... in ALL other national classes this would not be tolerated and penalties would be applied and peoples times docked or taken away.

Dont get me wrong, I am no angel myself on the track, I can give back as bad as I get it, but I have been dealt worse than caused myself this year and NONE has been penalised (either way), BUT and it is a big BUT, the relaxed and laid back atmosphere at the SC nationals is what every single racer says is one of the main attractions of this class, so be VERY careful what you all wish for..... since you may not like what you get as a result.

Wow, all drivers please leave your competitive nature at the gate and have fun. This series has not been as fun as last year in my opinion. To the point where I'm not sure I'll bother doing the rest as I've done 5 now so "I've completed the series"

Good luck fellas I'm out.

For those who knew about this rule change decision, could you please let the rest of us know how and when you were informed of the change and by whom?

Rules
 

The main organiser is currently on holiday so nothing will be posted at this moment in time.

Regarding the idea of tightening up the rules I totally disagree in my opinion it's a fun friendly series for the masses.

Where else and and what other meeting could I take a 11 year old with no previous national experience and put her in the meeting.
The kids are the future of rc if you hadn't noticed were all getting a little long in the tooth and with not many youngsters coming through the range we need to help and guide not punish them..

At the end of the day people it's our hobby we don't need to win them all and be the best of the best.

Just go out and enjoy ourselves.....

I think you may find not everyone shares that point of view, and will do whatever they can to increase their chances of winning.

While I agree with you, its also a competition and people will naturally want to win (toy cars or not), however when their chances are scuppered due to another driver being a bell end it invariably pisses people off more so when it gets completely ignored. Corner cutting to gain an advantage is also frowned upon. whether its billed as a "fun" series or not when grown ups behave like kids it will always end in tears.

All we ask for are transparent rules (not many are needed)and that they are enforced when required (which is not often)

Rules
 

4 from 7 it is and will stay........

DONE FINAL

4 from 7 it is.................still waiting for someone to answer the above question though..............or is it only certain priveledged group who get to know about important rule changes?

Rule
 

Not at all slider we just assume probably to our downfall that the word will get around from now on all changes will be posted to the sc national Facebook page

Might have been an idea to post that 2 days ago and maybe this wouldn't have escalated.........or is that how long it's taken to come up with a 'sweep it under the rug' answer??

You can't deny 8 weeks prior to rd1 it was categorically stated on a the uksc Facebook page it was to be 5 from 7 to count if the 7th round went ahead, at that time the rules also stated 5 from 7!, the 7th round was confirmed prior to the season start...............5 from 7!!! . Protagonist's on both sides of THIS discussion were involved in that conversation and there was no uproar everyone seemed happy enough with the conclusion of that conversation

Personally I think this all looks very iffy!!

I cant believe how rattled some people are over this.

Just out of curiosity, to all those that are 'frustrated' about this...... What exactly are the problems or issues with having 4 out of 7 ??? Is it just that you will drop down the rankings as more people will score points to qualify ?? or am I missing something ??

Im nothing to do with the class, just an outsider looking in :)

Iffy
 

Nothing iffy at all slider this year has been a struggle to either get clubs to agree to hosting a meeting and then another struggle to get A them to confirm a date and B find a date that doesn't clash with anything else.
The organisers do this for the love of there hobby NOTHING ELSE. And with how people are going on moaning there gonna feel like it's not worth the hassle.
For those of you that thing you can do better try it see how you get on...
All the organising has been done by a bloke who runs his own business full time and I for one appreciate what he has done Short course is considered by most clubs as a shit class so just to get to race for me is enough.....

Think we should stop moaning and accept it coz no amount of moaning will change anything other than get the back up of the organisers..

Still the question of why it changed is unanswered? I appreciate chris a very busy man, and i really do appreciate all the work thats involved in making this series happen, hence why I have offered to assist on many occasions to lighten the load but nothing ever came of it.

The reason i am unhappy is that yes there's a possibility of dropping down the rankings when top drivers score well at the minimum number of rounds when others have supported the series and the clubs by attending them all. But it's the main fact that it changed when everyone has planned there year around the 5 of 7 to count.

Currently I'm 2nd in the series with 4 rds done but after the 5th round goes on it will all change. Working in full size motorsport where every point you earn counts it just seems a weird system. It's not brca so why must it follow the same precedent, make all the points count then if people want to win they need to properly participate in the whole series to make it happen, benefitting the series and the clubs who host the rounds?

I have no issues with 4 from 7(as someone who can have up and down results it would actually work in my favour), I don't have a personal beef with any competitor,it doesn't bother me that a rule has been changed that had already in my opinion been clarified for this season or why that one rule in particular was altered (wether the rumour mill is right or wrong!)

As an average club racer, I regard the uksc nationals as my main race series over summer and so have planned my other activities around the dates and rules of the series, with 5 rds down I find out that one of the main rules which I thought I'd personally clarified has been altered pre season without an announcement to the competitors involved.

I've received an answer to my question,my opinion still stands.
I'm drawing a line under it now, end of!

Regards to the work the Uksc team do and Spendy imparticularly, I for one am very thankfull for your efforts to get us a national series going and I'll happily put myself forward to help you guys out for 2016

What "top" drivers are being referred to here since every one I can see on the list has only missed one round and is on course to complete 6 from 7 let alone 5 from 7 in both classes.......

From what I recall at ARC for round 1 the 7th date was still to be confirmed. The series did start with only six dates on the calendar until it was added for NDOR shortly after..

As to all rounds counting, I think a reality check is needed on that one. This is a "weekend hobby" for 99.9% of us and not a full time occupation as it is for most in full size mototsport and to drop no rounds at all would be crazy. If you took F1 as an example, only the top 10 score any points at all. Just imagine for those who travelled to Mendip last weekend and the guy who came 11th got sod all for or any advantage then the guy who was 25 places behind in last..... there would be uproar........

I think you'll find that the seventh round had been confirmed and was included on the uksc website on 24th April, 3 weeks prior to the start of the season

I thought it was later than that, and that it was mentioned in drivers breifing at ARC as well as the "brewery race" in Coventry, looks like I was wrong in that case if it was'nt....

I wasn't suggesting only the top ten get points, that would be daft, when comparing to full size motorsport I'm not referring to F1 I'm referring to the circa 28000 Weekend warriors in the UK to whom racing is their hobby the same as us lot. We have over 150 club level racing championships in the UK. Some drop scores some don't, but the emphasis is always to make the points count to ensure sign ups subscribe to the whole series not just a few rounds.

I know my ideas are sometimes wide of the mark, and there are MANY more experienced racers here, but just sometimes fresh ideas can work:thumbsup:

A problem you get into with all rounds counting Justin, is if someone knows they can't do all of the rounds of a series, they don't bother with any of them & you lose people that way.

I couldn't get time off work this year to do enough of my regional series, so didn't bother with any of them.