lipo saddle packs, a poll to show feelings
 

PLEASE note you have 2 votes so use one for poll one and two, your second vote for poll 3 and 4
once you have cast your vote (even only choosing one) you will be locked out


hi
after attending the NE winter regional meeting i thought id post this, as there seems talk of many regions dropping the BRCA from regionals. and id like to know what other racers think.

while i understand that we shoud have a form of restriction i feel that a rule may be in place to restrict the growth/ fairness in off road. the mah has raised from 5000 to 5500 the size for saddle packs was kept the same as stick dimensions, trackpowers packs (for example) are 1mm over size if the ends of the heat shrink are removed they give no unfair advantage over current nimh and fit most cars.
So please pick the poll which you feel would be in the best interest of the hobby.



if you would like to explain your reason do so below, please keep this sensible, i dont want any EB or BRCA bashing just a sensible debate to see what racers feelings are

thanks

mark

should be allowed for say 2 or 3 years until the current LiPo's in use that are oversize are no longer race worthy for BRCA events and new LiPo's will be in place to meet the specs.

You really cant have "tolerances" because the manufacturers will just increase the size of the cells to the max, it has been done before and will be done again all in search for a bit more performance.

Whether lipo is allowed at an event or not, i would still attend, it makes no difference to me, rules are rules, you can still have a good time without lipo. :thumbsup:

I have read the post a couple of times now, and I think I know what you are trying to say.

I would ask the following questions though:-

which of the "many" regions are considering "dropping the BRCA" from the regionals, and what is the point or even meaning of doing that?

Are your concerns over the size of Lipo's based purely upon the fact that it is trakpower cells (given your apparent affiliation to trakpower) that are now deemed too big, or would you be asking the same question if, for example, trakpower cells were allowed and team orion (or any other) cells were illegal?

I personally chose not to run regionals at all last year as I could not run Lipo, and as all my cells are now Lipo, and within the tolerances, there should be no event that I can't race at anymore. Well after April next year anyway.

NE have dropped the BRCA from thier regionals winter serries, reason for that is thay can then choose not to follow full BRCA rules and allow lipo, had it been brca there would have been no lipo, and i dare say looking in the pits 50% were running lipo. i have only heard of other regions looking at doing this but, it should not really be happpening..............there obviously doing it to keep racers happy and numbers up.

yes hands up, i have made this poll because of trakpowers situation, however had it been another brand, and been posted by that brands supporter my vote would still be the same.

That's fair enough then.

But if the regions "drop" the BRCA for the regionals, what is the situation regarding insurance for the events? Are they still covered through BRCA Affiliation?

In the NE the clubs are effectively each running a large one off meeting, that we just so happen to be stringing together as a series :thumbsup:

Any meeting that a BRCA affiliated club holds is totally covered.

G

I don't think they are dropping the BRCA. They may be dropping the BRCA's rules as a guide for their series. (I wait to be corrected)

As far as dropping the BRCA, a region would not participate in a BRCA sanctioned event, ie BRCA regionals.

The East of England, a struggling region is seriously considering this. The EoE regional AGM, in the next couple of weeks, should be very interesting.

Totally agree with Lee on this one.

I must admit I can't understand anyone that wouldn't want to race because of a ruling.
Personally never had anyproblems with NiMh, mine are over a season old and OK, getting a little tired now but during the slippery conditions of the winter its probably best. Also I only recall seeing a couple of packs go POP!
I believe someone mentioned, (in another thread!) that you could not use a pack of NiMh repeatedly throughout a days racing. At this years Euro's I know a number of Team GB guys that was using one pack that had been modified for 5cell. Not just for one day but 3.
Whether it is NiMh, or LiPo make your choice and have some fun!

My Reasons
 

Having done touring cars for years, and last year lipos were allowed I no longer have any usefull nims. All my batteries are now lipo and I don't want to take a step backwards and buy nims again (I wait to get slated for this remark!) to allow me to do the regionals next year which I am seriously thinking about? All my lipos are still in excellent condition.
Theres my thoughts anyway!:)

Alan

That's cool if it's only a couple, we'll just wait till the majority are going 'pop' till we see it as a problem.

PS, maybe the BRCA should also be 'reccomending' that NiMh's are charged in some kind of safe pouch, as they are the cells that seem to be causing the most problems.

oops, double post

I don't even own a charger that can charge NIMHs anymore and have used only lipo's for quite a while now. I only do open one day meetings that allow them. If I could run my car as is with lipo I would actually start doing BRCA sanctioned events. :thumbsup:

I fully support the BRCA allowing a small margin of error to allow for Trakpower and other saddle bricks. The more stuff you allow the simpler it is for people to take part and for the sport to be supported.

I agree 1 pack is enough, don't get me wrong, but does beg the question what conditions were these cells being charged at? If, (and I am not saying this is the case) soemone is charging at 8.0A they are probably pushing the boundries a little. Rules aren't there to replace common sense??

Also I am all for LiPo's.. Great to see the hobby moving forward.
One thing that does concern me, is until the units are fully compatible with the chassis Joe Blogg on the street, won't want to be getting his dremel out on Boxing day so his son car run his new car!

If Joe Bloggs is anything like me he needs very little excuse to use the Dremel :p

:D fair play.. I like them so much I brought a mains one and battery powered one for when I am out and about!

how good shops would sell a car and incompatable cells?

how many joe bloggs do actually fit none standard parts?

how many joe bloggs would race at brca meetings let alone be a member?

joe bloggs on the street can fit an 11 volt pack, as he aint bothered what rules are

cheers for the responce guys, keep it up!

yup there only dropping the brca title, its then not a brca sanctioned event, brca insurance etc is still there, just then rules can be used as that club/series feel fit

Did the '4200' generation of cells fit into cars without some minor work? I don't think they did, but nobody cared.

What do you think would be harder for Joe Bloggs, soldering up 6x cells in saddle formation (which requires a soldering iron, battery jig, battery bars, etc) or installing some extended battery posts when he builds the car.

I know which I'd rather be doing...

News to me :confused:


Anyway back on topic, I don't understand why people just can't wait for the list to be publicised by the BRCA about what will and won't be legal.

This came to me last night while I was thinking about the LiPo situation.
It seems kinda obvious to me, but I am willing to hold my hand out to anyone who spots a hole in my thought.

There were never any dimension size restrictions for any SUB C assembled packs whether they be Stick or Saddle. the only stipulation was down to each cell measuring upto the laid out dimension including tolerances.

So why should there be overall size dimension for LiPo packaging?

Think about a saddle pack of NiMh, there is no ruling on the dimensions including soldering tags, which are an essential part of the packaging for them to work.
The same can be said for stick packs. The cells are soldered together, then heat shrunk again 'for protection' then end capped. There was no limit on the length and or width of the assembled pack.

I see why dimensions are being used to control the size of LiPo and make them easy to 'scrutineer', but surley a bit of common sense should prevail here from the BRCA.

Why don't the BRCA make dimensional rules for Saddle Packs and rules for Stick packs. (Obviously 2 of the dimensions will be the same Width and Height of the case, but the capping Length will be different, for obvious reasons.

This would allow people who have already 'gone' Lipo to use their stuff at future meetings. Keeping the numbers of racers up and the cost down and the people at the BRCA would be seen to have their finger on the pulse and keeping their members both old and new happy with simple regulations that minimise the hassle and cost of changing to a new technology.

Yes I do run Trakpower, but really, should that matter? Someone please try and find a hole in my simple reasoning.:thumbsup:

Adam, im with you on that one. But it could be expanded upon further, why have dimensions for the sealed pack, why not a dimension for the actual cell within the pack? This would be more of an equivalent to the Sub-C rules?

As for Nimh, how many of us saw Ste Pierce have a pack of (my) Nimh cells explode while normal charging yesterday? SMC EnerG 4600's and not only did one blow, but the melted heatshrink meant the next cell shorted and it threw a flame from the cell like a burning gas bottle!!! Which he then put in a Lipo-sack to take outside, and it burnt the sack!!!!

Now we have Lipo, regardless of my loyalties, if the rules meant we still had to run Nimh - well im sorry but im going back to club level racing to run Lipo until Lipo is allowed..... as it happens it is now, and im pleased as both my cars run stick. But I would like for saddles to be allowed, and again regardless of my loyalties to Trakpower, id like for saddles to be allowed so all people have the choice of Lipo without changing chassis - as we all know Trakpower has been the most popular choice of saddles, possibly stick too, a lot of people already have them - and therefore hope some flexibility to see them allowed, afterall they are no different internally to stick packs, so no advantage to be had by them.

I do hold hope in the BRCA, they recognise we all do this sport to enjoy it, and they do represent us the best they can - so will reserve any more thoughts til the list comes out.

Chris

That, i think, proves the whole lipo sack theory is something short of being worthwhile in my opinion.

chris did the sack just burn as in scorch or catch fire?

So in effect, the NE is having a large 'interclub' series, to their own rules, with some use of the BRCA handbook. A regional is a regional, and must be run to BRCA rules for you to qualify for point.

Interclubs are the way to go, and then maybe the EB, when they get a low entry, will realise that the Stick Pack lipo rule is a little daft.

I've guessing formula ratings can't be issued based on an interclub comp? So everyone would drop? Otherwise it would be the perfect solution.

northy can correct me here

i think that the region can still use this as a qualifier for the winter finals, (which are run to brca rules) if it were done outdoors im not sure you would get an F grading

help G please!!

We are using our indoor series purely as a 'guide' as to who qualifies for the Indoor Finals places that the NE is allocated ;););)

F grades can not be earned indoors, only from an outdoor series. The 2009 NE outdoor Regionals will be run to full BRCA rules.

G

Hi MC, I heard the same - might be in another thread, I can't remember. If the region runs a BRCA regional through the winter then that take precedence, otherwise a series such as this, and if nothing then they use the summer regional series.

It burnt the sack, the sack didn't catch fire - it served it purpose but on Nimhs rather than Lipo's.

Id encourage all to have a Lipo sack, even if you consider Lipo risk to be small, as proven they can protect from many other things if required.

Bloody well said!!! :thumbsup:

it stopped the flames from coming through the sack, it melted the out side of the sack but did stop it spreading, i haven't seen anything like that before , nor do i want to see it again,:thumbdown: i would use a lipo sack for nimh too if your using them,

The flame coming out of the bare metal cell looked well cool, it looked like a mini jet engine :thumbsup::thumbsup::woot::woot:

I did get Mia out of the way though until it was outside :(

G

Transmitters also :woot:

think it may have been Chris Green's that was smoking on his pit table when I returned from watching the 2wd A final.

next time im charging both a nimh and a lipo at the same time (obiously ,different chargers) im gonna use the pouch for the nimhs, unless i buy 2 pouches.

To be fair though she shouldn't be left charging cells alone :eh?:

True brother, true.

G

from what I hear, Mia does a far better job than the G-Man.... although you shouldn't ask her to sell your cars for you online...... you might miss a buyer :woot:

back on topic please boys and girls:thumbsup: