EFRA AGM - any feedback?
 

Hi there,

This week-end, the EFRA AGM has taken place in France.

Has anyone some feedback of the discussions on the big points : LiPos legalized? etc etc...

Thanks a lot

JC

PS : I didn t know where to store this thread, feel free to move to the appropriate sectio.

Lipo's are aproved

I heard the food was a disappointment :thumbdown:

I think you have bad information. Food was very good, much more better than in last year.

Lipo approved, from what i remembe max capacity 5500.

I have all my papers in home.
If you like i can write you tomorrow which proposal passed.

Yes, please keep us posted! :thumbsup:

Any more details on LiPos? From what date? Dimensions? For all classes?

Didn't you go Shy? :confused:

G

Maybe he got all shy :woot:

Elvo once sent me a T-shirt stating "I'm shy but I've got a big d***!" :lol:

No, I'm not in the federation now. Only guys from there can go.

I've been to a couple before when I was in the federation. And once as a "consultant" for the federation.

:-D Found that shirt in Mexico.

Your Lipo proposal passed. Minutes soon to be posted on the EFRA website.

Cool,
Can somebody link to the minutes in here once available.

Are those T-shirts still available? Or can Piespeed print some? :thumbsup:

AGM Minutes normally appear here - http://www.efra.ws/agm_page.html

Saying that it looks like 2007 minutes are still to be uploaded :(

Final race calendar:
10-15.08.2009 EC Spain Bilbao



Proposed rule to read

Appendix 3C 3.2
Existing Rule :
3.2 European Championships: The organizer will propose a 2 types of tyre for the 2WD rear axle and the 4WD rear axle. The manufacturer and full description of the tyres chosen must be given but there remains free choice of compound. The proposed tyre choice will be ratified at the EFRA section AGM prior to the EC and provided always that the chosen tyres are commercially available throughout the EFRA Nations.



Amend to:-
3.2 European Championships: The organizer will propose 1 type of tyre for each of the driven axles for 2WD and 4WD (2WD and 4WD do not have to be the same type of tyre). The manufacturer and full description of the tyres chosen must be given, but there remains free choice of compound. The proposed tyre choice will be ratified at the EFRA section AGM prior to the EC and provided always that the chosen tyres are commercially available throughout the EFRA Nations. The manufacturer(s) of the chosen tyres will be notified which specific tyre has been chosen as soon as the decision is finalised.


Passed 17 and 1 absention






















Appendix 3C 5

Existing Rule :
5. Body shell holes/vents: The front and rear ends of the shell must retain some of the original profile of the two ends of the shell. Front and rear facing areas within the body shell surface which are 'marked' with the intention of removal to form ”air scoops/ vents“ are allowed to be removed. In addition, if no ”marked“ air scoops/vents are designed in the original mould, in the immediate proximity of the motor or ESC, then material may be removed to a maximum of 10 mm in any direction within a maximum square area of developed size 30 mm x 30 mm, in two places only. Windows are not allowed to be removed or include holes, other than for the purpose of the antenna.

Amend to :-
5. Body shell holes/vents: The front and rear ends of the shell must retain some of the original profile of the two ends of the shell. Front and rear facing areas within the body shell surface which are 'marked' with the intention of removal to form ”air scoops/ vents“ are allowed to be removed. If no ”marked“ air scoops/vents are designed in the original mould to assist airflow to the motor or ESC, then material may be removed to a maximum of 10 mm. in any direction within a maximum square area of developed size 30 mm x 30 mm, in two places only. Windows are not allowed to be removed or include holes, other than for the purpose of the antenna.




Passed Unanimously


















THE RULE SHOULD BE AMENDED TO READ (PARTICULAR 1/10 OFFRAOD)
3.3 1/10 Off-Road cars will be driven by a maximum of six cells. EFRA approved Lithium Polymer batteries may be used as an option for this class. See Appendix 10 for specifications.

Proposed by: NMF/RC Norway




Passed Unanimously

Mark, can you read this? :p

Louder Louder !!! :lol:

sp have lipos been approved?

what is the appendix 10 spec?

did you rule not state no dimensions?

if so whats an efra aproved pack and whats See Appendix 10 for specifications.

ill say well done when i know what that bit means:lol:

The original rule that was proposed (by Norway)had no dimensions but it did have the 5000mah rule so I'm guessing some of this has been changed in appendix 10

In short version:

Lenght 139mm
Width 47mm
Height 23,5mm Additional chassis protrusions are allowed.

The case must have original suppliers label intact, stating the rated voltage and the pack capacity. Maximum capacity is 5,500mah. The Brand name/logo shall be easily readable.

LiPo batteries may be charged to a maximum of 8,40V. Overcharged will not be tolerated.

Any competitor found to have charged LiPo cells above 8,4V will be disqualified from the event.

Minutes: http://www.motorsportforbundet.no/rc...6&x=1&a=237774

any different dimensions for saddle packs?

any one know what apendix 10 is then?

max length saddle end to end 139.0 mm same as stick

Proposed by B.R.C.A Great Britain.

Passed Unaimously

oh....................

You still haven't read anything have you? :yawn: You lazy ...

That appendix is for the approval process, guidelines as to safety etc.

As for the rule itself both the dimensions resctictions and mAh restrictions are from the BRCA proposal.

The committee has the mandate to set up the homologation process.

As far as I can see there is no mention about when LiPos will be on the battery list. So for our country I will try and convince the majority that we should vote yes to get started 1. april with the ROAR list. (And not adopt the dimension rule). But it will be a democratic decision of course.

am at work and could not find the apendix

I think this is a mistake to exclude the trakpower saddles all because they are a couple of mm to big in one dimension. I do agree that there should be size limits but why limit it to exclude a product that is already doing well in the market. As far as I'm aware the trakpower saddle lipo's are the most common ones out there currently.

An interesting point I've just noticed, If the packs are delt with by volume rather than any one specific dimension;

Proposals 139 x 47 x 23.5 = 153.52cm3
Trak power 3200 saddles 2nr 47 x 22 x 71 = 146.83cm3
Trak power 4900 sticks 144 x 23 x 137 = 144.95cm3

They are larger by nearly 2cm3 than the sticks but most of that is due to the additional connectors, they are still well within the maximum volume set out in the proposal.

I understand that limiting batteries by volume isn't a good idea, I'm just looking at it as many different ways as possible. I bet the wizards are working away to develop a set of saddles that comply with the dims set out and we will end up passing on our current cells. I hope they manage to do it as this is the only thing keeping me from racing in next years regionals.

trakpower are looing at thier options.

personally i feel let down by those suposedly representing me as a brca member!

Does that technically mean that I might not be able to attempt to enter any Regionals in 2009 with my current TrakPower saddles??

It's looking that way:thumbdown:

*crys like a girl*

Hmm...

Shouldnt affect you Chris as youre too much of a girl to venture outdoors :p

I must agree with Mark here that the BRCA really has missed the boat on this one. Not allowing the saddles, but allowing the stick pack with identical performance seems crazy. And in the process they are ruling out over half the 4wd chassis from being able to run lipo. Therefore there isn't a level playing field at all, something the BRCA was trying to ensure?!?
I personally can't see trakpower or any other big names releasing revised spec cells just for us, there just wouldn't be enough money in it.

Why the BRCA couldn't just limit capacity and voltage and adopt all the safety tests like ROAR i don;t know.

Guys, i'm not sure what anyone was expecting to happen (this is just my reading of the situation btw - i could be off base!!). "The BRCA reps" were unlikely to propose (to EFRA) to allow your longer saddles - because it was their proposal to put them outside of the guidelines in the first place. If you felt strongly about having a different dimension for saddles, then the BRCA AGM was the only place this was likely to happen - i.e ask your BRCA section rep to represent the section to the EB to modify their spec/proposal.

Well... this is what I've been trying to tell you guys over and over again...

The BRCA or whatever organization is not one "giant brain" or oracle that always knows what's best. Each and every one driver with a brain has to communicate his thoughts to his federation! Next time write a full proposal yourselves! It's pretty straightforward!

We saw this coming and are most likely adopting the ROAR list from 1. april. And we'll just add the EFRA list when it finally comes.

It's been puzzling me for a long time how ROAR seem to have a much easier set of rules - and still it works just fine! Not to forget the IFMAR rules which are very simple - yet it works like a charm! K.I.S.S.

Anyways, down to the details - as I understand now it's just 1:10 OR as to EFRA classes that can use LiPo, or am I wrong? (The electric track minutes is not yet posted) Anyone know more specific?

I guess we need to wait for the Elec track minutes, however, i don't think there was a proposal to change the rule that said cars driven by 5 cells - or something like that!

Yeah, voltage is a problem...

I've heard about testing in the US for 1:12 with the newer ABC123 cells and smaller types of motors... I've heard rumours about a possible 3V cell also... but I don't have anything specific...

And in any case that's not "up for graps" at this point of time...

Obama for president!!! :thumbsup:

I was at the AGM Mat and we couldnt do anything about the dimensions for saddle packs!

Stating / repeating the obvious, a hard cased lipo by the nature of its construction will be longer when placed end to end than its equivelant stick pack. What is the logic behind not having a different max dimension for saddles ?

Is there a rational explanation, if not then youve got to laugh or cry (depending on how many Trakpower saddle LiPo's you own) because I just dont get it.