Tamiya not to renew Martin's contract
 

After reading the Lee Martin Racing FB post last week I wondered what was to come of Lee. I log on to Live RC to discover that Tamiya is cutting back on its "off road program".

Stunned silence...

I figured Lee would use his World finishes to his advantage to seek more money someplace else. Never would I had assumed that Tamiya wouldn't pick up his contract. WOW


A guy goes out busts his arse and shows the world what he can do with an "off brand" car....and they dump him! Good call Tamiya!

Here's an idea for increased sales in a slumping r/c market.....make affordable kits! What market analyst said it was a good idea to price the conversion kits so damn high? Seriously a $700 MM car? Really? And don't get me started on the 4wd cars! Best 4wd car Tamiya makes is discontinued...come on! Don't wonder why your off road sales are so low when you price kits outside of what most racers can afford!

An under dog makes a huge impression on the world with his driving talent...running your equipment and you dump him for his efforts...

Shame on you Tamiya!

Effective immediately I'm resigning as a Tamiya/TRF USA driver....now where's that TLR contract I received.....



Best of luck Lee!

:thumbsup:

Well, could´nt agree more...

:thumbsup:

Awesome!

Fantastic........................................: thumbsup:

I understand the sentiment, but seeing as though tamiya are cutting back their off-road schedule, I can't see how they will miss you.

That is assuming you run for tamiya off-road and not on-road.

It's certainly disappointing that Lee is leaving TRF.

I've always liked Tamiya cars no matter who was racing for them. Back in the early 1990's TRF was starting to develop good Off Road racing cars, Top Force Evolution and Dyna Storm, then they stopped. Due to lack of parts and ageing cars I moved on to other brands before stopping RC racing altogether.

Nearly two years ago I started RC racing again and bought TRF cars because they were out there and just as competitive as the opposition.

Hopefully TRF off road development won't come to a grinding halt and new kits will be released soon!

Otherwise I'll have no choice but to change brands - not easy when the stable consists of 2 versions of the 201X, a 502X and DB-02, because they all share common parts!

Lee will be missed. I like the fact I could ask him questions via this very same Forum.

All the best Lee, thanks for everything you have done for TRF and your fellow racers over the past four years!

You guys are funny, You are in your warm House with no idea about the Economy in General, Its really really tough making Business, especially in RC, I am sure that the decision was not made lightly or willingly. Tamiya TRF make great Models but it costs, to Make in Japan v China or Taiwan is not cheap to do. Its a battle many Manufacturers face. But to get the best its what must happen, You have to pay for the good stuff or use something else. The sad fact is many people bought the other cheap stuff meaning Tamiya can't earn enough money to Pay for Lee Martins wage. Don't forget he was a paid employee.
I wish Lee well and its a real shame it ended,its a sad sign of the economy not some conscious bad decision to upset anyone.
I can tell you its not just Tamiya who cant pay for pro drivers. many of the top Brands are in same situation and not able to pay a wage for someone to race.
You should love the product for what it is not what the economy forces business into doing.

well said neil

in order to make a small fortune in the RC world it's best to start with a large one

Yes, very well said and what I wanted to say when reading this thread. This is the exact sitation in RC today and it will be more and more obvious in the near future. People outside outside the business, i.e. normal racers perhaps don't understand this yet.

Thank you for that, best thing I've heard today :)

Hi Neil,

No warm fuzzy house here. My Tamiya's are not far from being one off's here on the Aussie tracks. Which means they generally scarce. So far parts, and the kits for matter, I have been able to source from OS.

If the parts become hard to find then I'm left with no option to change brands, as you can't race cars with no availability of parts, because when you race, stuff breaks. Further, as the cars are scarce, I generally can't ask the guy in the pits next to me to borrow some parts.

Thus in the end if I'm not driving Tamiya, their not getting my dollars. But in the end, if they are making a loss in Off Road, they need to reorganise and concentrate on where the profits are being made so they can survive, that is understood. It still doesn't mean it isn't disappointing.

FYI...I happen to own my own small business, so I understand the shrinking economy here in the states. My feelings are a little different from yours since I've been a TRF driver for the past few years. In those past few years I've been left disappointed with the amount of focus Tamiya has spent on developing the off road program. They release car after car...toy after toy. Then they release big bores and 2 conversion kits that cost a small fortune. My vent was that of frustration as a TRF driver. Tamiya spent huge amounts of money to develop a rear motor car and a mid motor car. For what? Lee does an amazing job at the Worlds. So right when Tamiya might be able to capitalize on the finishes of its top driver...it decides off road is too expensive and pulls the rug out from under us.

My complaint....as a business owner...is this:

How can they expect to gain customers (market share) with a car that retails for a small fortune? I own an auto repair business. I've been working on autos for most of my life. With that in mind, I'll tell you that quality isn't a marketable selling point when the repair shop down the street is half the cost. Of course you want to produce quality work....but you also must have a competitive price. Otherwise your quality product sits on a shelf collecting dust.

Lees wage is´nt the problem. Tamiya could afford that.

They are cutting down on the development and therefore there is no meaning in having a paid pro.
It´s as simple as that and that´s what they have said more or less according to Lee´s statement.
If not, how will they promote a race car if they have no success at the tracks?

Good products are useless if you have nothing to sell. That´s the biggest problem in this case.
Tamiya did´nt really make it easy to buy kits or spare parts.
How many times have you read or heard people asking where to find kits and parts?
Even Lee has tried to help out. I have received quite a few e-mail request.

You cant put all the blame on Tamiya.
Tamiya just make the products and sell to distributors worldwide who have to try and sell to the public.
Unfortunately as said its very difficult for the distributors to sell any models and make money, so simply they don't. In the UK Lee Martins country where he has done fantastic for Tamiya it is close to impossible to buy kits and spares in uk, just as no-distributor can do it and make a profit. We have the same problem with Kyosho, but lucky we are a big strong Distributor who can sell the kits for no profit and make small margin on spares etc, we can only do this as we don't fully rely on this race market for our core business.
So again don't blame Tamiya its just fact of the world economics that outside Japan it can not be sold for easily for profit.
If you love the products get them anyway you can. If you don't then try another Japanese Brand with same quality but little easier to get ;-)

Oh, you must mean Yokomo? ;):p

LOL! I did not rule them out!

Strange that it is almost impossible to find a TRF kit even in asia then.
I´ve have contacted several shops and most of them cant get any kits.

I think Tamiya are to blame, how can a company like Tamiya spend the amounts of money on development on off road TRF buggies 2wd and 4wd that they wont release for sale.?

Why, then release the upgrades, of buggies you cant buy and better still the upgrade kits Tamiya release you cant buy spares for the upgrade kits.

If Tamiya had of looked at the demand of these beautiful buggies then maybe the price issue would not be a issue.

So as i read this thread then,

You wont be able to buy the TRF 2WD mid or rear motor anymore.
You wont be able to buy the TRF 511.1 OR 512 which ever it was going to be called anymore.

I cant really get my head around Tamiya for this but OH HOLD ON A MINIT !!!!

Maybe in 25yrs time just like the Avante you will be able to buy these as a release that wasn't released :bored:

I maybe wrong but isn't the point of employing team drivers to give your products a good showing and help increase sales. Lee Martins salary or support costs over a year would surely not be all that much money in comparison to the increased profit achieved with him advertising their product. I am sure that people would disagree with me on this but I think tamiya really got their credibility back as a serious competition car manufacturer with Lee Martin.

So to clarify, thats a release of release that wasn't released? 25 years in the making the TRF 512:cry:

I might have overlooked it, but nobody seems to have mentioned this so far: Tamiya is a company that has two focuses: Static Scale Models, and Radio Control Models. I haven't got exact numbers, but they sure don't do Static models on the side - in fact, they once started out doing RC models on the side!

And then if you take their RC business seperately, their core business is hobby grade vehicles (mainly RTR) that offer an easy (re)-entry into the RC hobby. They do this by means of scale models, nostalgia (re-releases) and simple constructions.

They offer racing classes specifically for their cars, and then also offer a step up - dedicated club racing models and classes - on the side. And then finally a tiny part of their sales comes from directly from TRF cars.

Of course, the TRF keeps up a reputation that draws people to their higher end models in general (also non-TRF). However, this part of their operation takes a relatively big amount of investment for the cash they get for it. Look at the releases they've been making in the past 5 years, and they core business seems to have become that which makes them easy money: Hobby Grade RTRs for (re)-entry in the hobby. Also, to me they seem to aim on their bigger markets of old: Japan and the USA.

You don't have to like that (and I sure don't), but in that perspective this decision is understandable. They don't currently have a good distribution platform in Europe for buggy racing - to build that up it costs extra money and time they don't want to spend, and with the current market position not working out they seem to pull the plug on TRF's offroad operation (at least for the European market, but quite possibly alltogether).

One can only imagine if they might have extended & expanded their operation if Lee in fact won the Worlds (in 2WD)...

I am not too sure if Tamiya are still interested in their TRF team at all. Also in touring car, there have been reports of Marc Rheinard being frustrated due to a lack of mechanic support from Japan. :yawn:
I really hope rumours are true and Lee Martin will sign with Yokomo. Aside from being my favourite brand, they really proved their commitment in the past few years. They are serious about racing. ;)

Bad form from Neil in my opinion. How to endear people to you and your brand, insult their intelligence! I am sure many people on oople have an understanding of the economy at least equal to, if not better than yours.

I also take issue with the point about manufacturing costs. Just because its a Japanese brand, doesn't mean it has to be produced in Japan. Apple are one of the biggest companies in the world, where are their products made? I don't see many people complain about the quality of their products...

I work for a global company with an annual turnover of £1.2 billion. A huge part of our business is our own branded products, which are almost entirely all manufactured in China and Taiwan. Yes there are some cowboys churning out cheap nonsense that is often dangerous, but we have our own compliance lab for that, we test all products to ensure they meet all standards, approvals and legislation before they are launched.

The result, high quality products at Chinese / Taiwanese manufacturing costs. If the products in question are not equal to those from Japan, the UK or Europe then we don't accept them, its as simple as that.

If the RC brands in Japan aren't capable of sourcing such products then maybe they need to look at their internal processes!? :eh?:

It's probably a matter of culture too.
Have you seen Kyosho or Yokomo outsourcing anything outside the Japan?
As the result of that their quality is far more superior.

That's my point though, Japan doesn't automatically mean better quality. If you give the Chinese a spec to work to then they often achieve it. Would Apple be using them otherwise? Samsung and HTC are also Taiwanese, I'd say that just about locks out the top end of the phone market and not a Japanese product in sight.

It is half wits like you that give me little hope for the future. Neil is right. Look around at the number of Tamiya cars that race at your local club. In fact take a photo of ever Tamiya chassis that races at your club and post them on here. And then think about production cost, distributors profit, and retailers profit. And then think about flying a paid driver business class around the world, and then try to justify that cost.

If you read my post again you moron, you will notice that I am not even referring to your points above so I would say that you are the intellectually challenged sub species here.

My points refer solely to insulting potential customers intelligence, and manufacturing costs and standards in the Asia Pacific region. If manufacturing was outsourced to a cheaper geography then just maybe there might be a few TRF cars at local clubs as the kits could be sold at more realistic prices.

That's it, end of story. All of your bull about paid drivers and business class travel is not relevant to my point, so crawl back under your rock and do us all a favour.

Tell me what the GBP/JPY was trading at in 2007, and tell me what it is trading at now...and then tell me how you sell a car at a competitive price when your cost advantage has been cut in half.

Or are you simply advocating slave labor when you say outsourcing to a cheaper region? People need enough money to eat you know ;)

I suggest you ask Yokomo that question seeing as they are putting kits out there in the same ball park as the Schumacher's and Losi's of this world.

Simply though, if the competition is lowering prices then you need either incredble brand equity and a strong network of dealerships to continue to achieve sufficient sales in the face of such competition, or if you don't have this luxury then you need to at least try to be competitive.

Those who continue to do the same and hope for a different result are insane.

Mabey Tamiya already see the light and are cutting their losses rather than flogging a dead horse, although with Kuroda's polices they may reconsider their position at some point in the future ;) Anyway on a more positive note I wish Lee all the best and hope that he gets hooked up with Team C in the future...As I think the TM2 is an awesome car :thumbsup:

Would that be the same TM2 designed and produced in China?? :p

Agree though that it is a great car.

Yes and China is not Japan ;)

Is there any chance that Lee Martin is happy to move on? Maybe the split was mutual. Certainly he has the talent to win big with a more supportive brand. I was always surprised he stuck with Tamiya with all the points that others have already made against their TRF offroad efforts. There's a good chance Lee might be happy to be out of his contract and a free agent looking for a better team. I dunno? Lee you out there?

Exactly my point, a product doesnt have to be manufactured in Japan to be of a good quality.

Team C - China
Apple - China
HTC - Taiwan
Samsung - Taiwan
Garmin - Taiwan

These are just off the top of my head examples of premium quality products being manufactured in lower cost geographies.

I think we have probably done this to the death now, but my point remains that maybe the Japanese should entrust some of the production of their products to their near neighbours. They could maintain the same production standards and reduce their costs. Savings which could be fed down the food chain which would in turn make their product more appealing to the wider market.

LOL at you lot.

TRF is not about profits.
Lee told me long time ago that its an extremely small percentage to the overall turnover of Tamiya.
TRF is there to prove that their product can compete at the highest level and they have done that through Lee's talents.

I must say that the insults flying around is the reason many top drivers don't come on oOple anymore to voice their opinions and give the help to some that need it.... Not nice to see insults flying around no matter how strong you feel about a subject

Just to point out as some may not be aware, but Tamiya DO outsource much of the manufacturing of their r/c kits to other countries - the Philippines is where most of Tamiya's cheaper kits are made.

Tony hit the nail on the head tho, TRF sales are a fraction of Tamiya's total sales volume, the vast majority coming from their beginner/club touring cars. TRF was never meant to be an attempt at becoming a volume seller of competition kits, it was always just a showcase for their engineering skills, to prove that they can do it :D

Considering, on the touring car side at least, they are the most successful manufacturer in terms of world championships, and probably have the smallest team of any competition based manufacturer, I'd say their strategy has been pretty successful ;)

I will be keeping my TRF cars and plan now to upgrade the 201 to XM spec. I had a look at one last week and the quality of the machinig was very high indeed, i indeed said it was very expensive and it still is, but you get what you pay for in life plus it would be good to have a few being used in the UK still. Just ashame that i have to get the parts from the other side of the world.

jK

As a retailer we tried so hard to get TRF cars brought in properly as we could have a one point sold everyone we could get thats TC and Offroad Lee was a great ambassador of there product but there marketing department didnt use it well enough IMO.
Im hoping whoever he drives for now will realise what an asset he is.