TLR 22 2.0
 

Nice News from TLR (seen on Facebook)


Making it's debut this week at the 2013 ROAR Electric Off-Road Nationals is the new Team Losi Racing™ 22™ 2.0 buggy.

Go to TLRacing.com for all the info, specs, images and video.



https://www.facebook.com/pages/Team-...ocation=stream

"Go to TLRacing.com for all the info, specs, images and video."

theres no mention of it on the site :P


found stuff here

http://www.redrc.net/2013/08/tlr-22-v2-0-2wd-buggy-kit/

The 2.0 sounds like a std 22 but with most hop up parts from tlr. I wonder what the revised front geometry is? Maybe 5deg caster blocks. Or is there something I'm missing on this? Have they changed something major to get us back on the pace with the good old tank 22

Finally I can speak about this :-)

There are a lot of small detail changes that have gone into the 22 2.0 It's easy, at first glance, to miss them but they all add up in different ways to making the 2.0 easier to drive and easier to push with.

First up, the most obvious is perhaps the inclusion of several hop up items as standard (threaded hinge pins, alloy front bulkhead, alloy washers etc). The shocks now feature 2 hole 1.6mm machined pistons as standard along with machined shock spacers and X-ring seals and all hinge pins and shock shafts now have that uber sexy dark TiCN coating that the 8ight 3.0 series also has.

The Steering Rack has been tweaked to enable the Ackermann angle to be changed (the inner ball stud is now horizontal and can be shimmed forward / backward) and mid motor owners can now choose to retain their batteries with a new hinge plate that can double up as a Rx or ESC plate.

One of my personal favourites (thanks Frank) is the inclusion of a small retaining screw that now holds the forward rear wishbone pivot block and anti squat shim in place so you can remove the mid car gearbox without the rear suspension falling apart.

The new 6.5inch rear wing is made from ultra thick lexan and there have been subtle revisions to the 22 bodyshape to accommodate the revised battery mounting system (rear motor users can now use a battery brace and thumbscrews as opposed to velcro). Interestingly, there is also mention of a new Cab Forward bodyshell on the options list and my understanding is that the US team have some pre-production versions of these to run at this weekend's US ROAR nationals.

The revised front geometry does indeed feature 5 degree caster blocks along with 4mm trailing axles but it must be noted that these are NEW items and the geometry is significantly different from the older original car.
We've tested this new front geometry for quite some time ;) and the difference is quite startling. Its best summed up as saying that it accommodates a more aggressive driving style and allows the driver to push harder without fear of the car snatching or hooking with the resultant loss of rear traction. This makes the car feel much easier to drive without making it numb or non-reactive. It also affects the way that the car loads up during the corner so again, you benefit from a more consistent feel through longer turns without robbing yourself of any initial sharpness or feel.

I could go on but I think the pictures probably speak more than I can. You can check out more details and look at the pictures here.

Enjoy :-)

the thing that i am most interested in is that mid motor esc mounting brace

im persuming that this part could be bought to fit on the standard tlr 22?

thanks

I should imagine so. I think you'd need to look at part number TLR232014 primarily although you'd then need some fasteners (it uses the front king pins as the hinge pivot fasteners) and possibly you might have to drill a couple of holes in the old v1 chassis to accommodate the front battery stop moulding. I'm unclear on the last point though - that would be worst case. It could be that the new moulding will use the same holes as the front battery stop on the v1 kits do.

Shame the gearbox hasn't been altered so it's a bit closer to the rear driveshafts! Some nice changes though

thanks for that

if thats the case that would be ideal...as im not a low pro servo fan, my esc is mounted on the slant just above the motor and has a bad habit of coming loose once in a while

so is the new v2 chassis drilled out different from the v1 chassis?

and...is there a price annouced yet for the 2.0?

cheers

The RRP is 278.99.

The chassis is pretty much the same all baring one small detail which is the inclusion of a small hole to hold the suspension carrier (the front one where the anti-squat is adjusted) to make maintenance easier and obviously holes to mount the new battery brace systems for Rear and Mid Motor configurations. Everything else is pretty much the same on the chassis dimension wise.

The revised means that we dont have to dremel the steering parts to get the right hub position now right?
I guess the ackermann plate is great, I tried to make this mod on my own with the old rack but it has very little space for the screws, very nice to get a better solution now :).
Cant wait to get my hands on the machined shock parts. The old shock shaft were the worst I ever had (One run and deep scratches in the shafts) and I hope they are comparable with associated shafts now.
But a few questions:
I saw the differences between the SCT diff outdrives the old 22 ones. Can you explain why they changed the diff outdrives?
Stock springs? Not the new linear ones?
New ball cups? The sct had the ones with HD on them are those stock here too?

ah ok thanks

regarding the new mid motor battery/ esc mount TLR232014

thats what im most interested in (so i can actually mount the esc in a decent place)

would this fit straight onto the V1 chassis?

@Moose.

Not sure what you've been dremelling so can't answer definitively (sorry).
This is not the same as the long camber link that some of the team used if that's what you are referring to?

As for the Ackermann - agreed - there's little room on the existing slider to achieve much in the way of inner ball stud movement. I understand from Frank Root's post that the new rack sees the ball stud mounted higher up than the old one as well as being able to be shimmed. I expect it will be a good tuning aid.

As I understand it, the outdrives were changed to accommodate a final machining op to ensure that the plates were a flat as possible when mounted. For sure, the revised outdrives make for a smooth diff but with care, I've not had a problem with the older, non-machined outdrives.

Springs - yes they are the new LF springs included in the kit as standard (one set for front and one set for rear)

Ball Cups - According to the instructions, ball cups are TLR6018 - so the originals as far as I know.

Can't say for certain until we actually see the v2.0 chassis plate. There is a possibility that the forward battery moulding / battery stop mounting holes are in a different position with the new hinge plate. If this is the case then you would need to re-drill the original chassis to accommodate the new forward stop moulding. Geometry-wise, the chassis is the same though

So is there anything to stop us buying the new 2.0 changed geometry bits (steering/ trailing spindles) and adding them to the standard car?

The new front spindle/caster blocks will fit straight onto the V1 platform if you don't want to buy the new kit, as will the wishbones.

HTH

chassis should be different:
http://www.horizonhobby.co.uk/autoon...two-two-13.jpg
They took a stock chassis and drilled the holes I think. So all shiny holes should be new :)
BTW what is: Adjustable CVA Offset, and thx I looked at the hubs and understand it now. thought the hole hub would be more located downwards.

yer looks to be a extra set of holes drilled with the additional hole holding the pivot block in too

so.....touch wood..... that mid motor battery/esc strap should fit on

but only time will tell i guess

Have all the part numbers for the v2.0 be uploaded yet?

i cant seem to find out when this kit is out?

thanks again guys

Kit should be in the country around September, probably more towards the end of the month.

Here is a link to the manual that will have a spares list in it;

http://www.tlracing.com/ProdInfo/Fil...002_manual.pdf

Front Pivot, HRC, Aluminum: 22/2.0/T/SCT

http://www.tlracing.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=TLR334015


22 2.0 Cab Forward Body and Wing Set, w/Stickers

http://www.tlracing.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=TLR330000


Rear Arm Set: 22/2.0

http://www.tlracing.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=TLR234005


Front Arm Set: 22/2.0

http://www.tlracing.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=TLR234004


Battery Strap, Rear Mtr Carbon Fiber: 22/2.0/T/SCT

http://www.tlracing.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=TLR331010

Delves, what does the tiny little grub screw (TLR6289) that goes into the aluminum front pivot block on page 17 do?

also congratulations on the new layout, (rear motor and then mid motor) much easier to read through :)

Question, can anyone see any issues with using saddles side by side with this new motor brace/battery compartment/flap bit and just using some foam to pad out the end, or modifying it so the post is moved closer?

the new cab forward body
http://www.redrc.net/wp-content/uplo...rwardShell.jpg

This screw holds the block in position when you take the gearbox out. With the current car when you remove the gearbox in mid configuration the front suspension carrier moves about and inevitably the wishbones pop out. So this screw will eliminate that happening. Not performance enhancing but certainly makes working on the car easier.

Look good but i like some part of it...

those ackerman steering rank look strange, it not adjustable for toward to front suspesion but toward to rear of car? it going to be strange. unless im missing something.

Im using exotek steering rank and this has changed my car big time.

I like those slipper clutch and new revised rear brace on mid motor

good jobs losi 22 team! :thumbsup:

looking through the 2.0 manual

looking like ill need to buy the 2.0 mid motor rear chassis brace (as oppsoed to the TLR4162 Rear Chassis Brace - mid motor from the v1.0) as the new type have the hinges on for the new type esc/battery strap/flap

so hopefully these parts should be able to be bought separatly...

it should slot right into the v1.0 chassis...hopefully

I think you misunderstood what I meant,

but I figured it out anyway, its for the new hingepins that hold the front suspension on, there's a corresponding groove which must relate to the grub screw position to stop the hingepins falling out :)

They have always been on 22 models, on plastic blocks too ;)

Don't I feel like a retard :thumbsup:

Sounds and looks good - it's not that different, but to be fair the 22 didn't need a revolution... Some may not like the motor position in mid-motor, or it's sliding steering rack, but I think these are two features that characterize the car - I'm happy to see the car still has these :) and I think the tweaked steering rack may be an indication TLR team drivers have still found a sliding rack better than a bellcrank one with the right adjustments...

The car forward shell is really bad though: They must've been inspired by the bonnet of a car after a collision with a wall... Neither are a pretty sight!

http://youtu.be/u1UH-oOUUtM. Good video about the car even if alittle long

my only gripe with the car is the electronics placement

A couple of thoughts,

How hard and how much do you think it will cost to convert an original 22, not completely, but with some of the nicer features. like the front end geometry and steering. not too bothered about the chassis changers and bleeder shocks.

And does anybody else think the new slipper is a little OTT, kind of like it was designed with a 4wd platform in mind!!

you can just look up all the part numbers you want in the manual and check the local dealer. Our dealer already has all the parts in his list with prices.
Whats special about the slipper? Its just a copy of the old associated 2wd slipper and slipper pads. Dont see why this is a 4WD part...

I have the same idea...don't want to get a new kit, just some of the parts to upgrade it to a near enough 2.0

How much do you think it would be?

Looks great mine is on order !!

The New Steering Rack with Ackermann Adjustment
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...91723480_n.jpg

Dustin´s Steering Rack @ROAR Nats
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...34752898_n.jpg

I am completely missing something here, The new steering rack the steering turnbuckle balljoint faces backwards, as in the thread is towards the front of the car. But in the picture of Dustins car the balljoint is facing forwards, with some sort of bell assembly, is this the expensive third party steering? Becasue it definatly aint the new one from the v2

Also Dustins car has the Velcro battery straps and not the new plastic holder.

You didn't miss anything,but whatever steering rack Dustin is running you can see it's not the "expensive third party steering" as you can see (BELOW) it's plastic instead of alloy.

According to Todd Hodge - "Now onto the rack versus the bell cranks. During our initial testing we found that the rack was fine. It gave the appropriate Ackerman we were looking for, which is why we included it on the 22 2.0. After the worlds warmup we tested bell cranks, which actually give the car less Ackerman. Less Ackerman is when the outside turning tire turns close to the same rate as the inside tire. More Ackerman is when the inside tire turns at a faster rate than the outside. Less Ackerman actually gives the car a better balance on high grip tracks, such as the worlds track we are racing on this weekend. When I say better balance I mean that the less Ackerman actually gives us less steering compared to the rack. Now on lower bite tracks the rack will most likely be better because it will provide more steering. We discovered all of this entirely too late in the project and couldn't design, tool and include it in the vehicle quick enough. We are looking at the design right now and will start soon. We are still learning about this and collecting data on the 22 2.0."

As you noted, Dustin's car also has the velcro batter strap - along with the original battery stop. He's also got the gen-1 chassis, as you can see there's no milling of the servo mount area to get the servo lower in the chassis like in the 2.0
According to the U.S. forums the team drivers have just been updating their original cars with updated parts as they've become available, and word has it that he was satisfied with the older battery straps and/or hadn't received the updated parts in time and/or didn't feel comfortable using them for the ROAR Nats this week. He has been using the new cab-forward body and new rear-end geometry (3-hole shock tower and rear arms, driveshafts/axles).

The 2.0 also include adjustable off-set rear axle where the axle can be mounted 1mm further into the rear hubs, which causes a less supported rear end and increased forward drive out of turns. For higher grip surfaces, a 1mm spacer is included in the kit to allow the axle to be mounting in the same location as the original 22 for a more supported rear end feel which is also the kit setup.

Here's two 1.0 - 2.0 updates lists I've found - the first being everything (thereby showing it's cheaper just to buy the kit), and the second being just the geometry changed items (what most are probably looking for).
- U.S. Dollar prices, so take exchange rate into consideration -

One final thought then i promise i will stop asking questions. In the video they talk about a new post-heat treating machined outdrive with flatter surface. However looking at the part number in the instruction manual (TLR2955), it is the same as the original. Any thoughts on this?