BRCA rules clarification help urgent!!
 

Hi,

Hoping that someone can clarify for me where we stand on license and points scoring for regional's...I (inadvertently) was not registered as a BRCA member for the first 2 rounds of our regional series. But now I am. Do the points still count from the first two rounds?

Thanks

Dan

The rules state.........

"18.1 Only BRCA members are allowed to score points in Sanctioned Championships."

We have one round left on Sunday so I would think that if you can produce your membership card on the day then you will be ok.

I don't think i will be able to as I only paid for it yesterday so I doubt it will arrive by tomorrow. So I will be a BRCA member, but wont be able to produce my license. Where does it say that I have to produce it firstly? And second, do my points still count from the rounds that I was not a member?

I think the key point is "Championship". If you produce your membership after the championship has finished then you would not have been a member during. This is like any motorsport you must have a licence to compete and I think if you entered a chmpionship in full size racing and couldn't produce a licence you would be disqualified from the entire championship. This is however toy cars and i beleive that if you can produce a card on the day no one will question it and your points will stand.

I wont be able to produce it on the day!! That is the point I am making!! I am registered (now) - but what I need is clarification as to where it says in the rules I need to produce it on the day.

If you have bought and paid for your licence you are now a member and covered by insurance, best idea is to take copies of the emails from brca confirming you have paid and show the date, these normally also show your new BRCA number, this should be enough to confirm your a member, they can also check on the system as you should show as a member even if your card has yet to arrive.

If you paid via paypal, also take a copy of that email as evidence of payment.

I should think at regional level that should be enough, as in the end to promote our hobby we should be trying to find reasons for people to race, not to send them home

The only problem you could have with the points you scored at previous meetings before you joined could be depending on how well you have done! One person (or people) you have beaten could complain saying the points from the first meeting shouldn't count as you were not a brca member and they were at the time. And TBH I think they could have a point

how you managed to race at a 2 regional meetings with out a current licence is another matter:lol:

Maybe this would have been better discussed with your regional rep and kept under your hat rather than posting here for all to see,doh;)

ok great. thanks. are there any objections from the south west contingent?

It is the clubs responsibility to check that all racers are BRCA members whenever they race at their clubs if they themselves are BRCA affiliated. That goes for club rounds or bigger/regional events.

Truth is, for good or bad, clubs get used to seeing people around, and once the licence renewals period is done, and checks are made around that time, they might rightly or wrongly assume that racers have their licence sorted. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've raced at WORM, Yatton, Tiverton and Caldicot possibly this year...so that's 4 different clubs that have failed to check you in it!

Letter of the law (as far as I can understand):

You don't have any legitimate entry's/results so far this year, so entering on Sunday will mean you only have 1 result to use for a grading.

Entering on Sunday is reliant on the club being satisfied that your now a member, and that would mean them either seeing your card, them being satisfied that you've presented something legitimate confirming your membership is being processed, or them having contacted the BRCA themselves to ensure it's being processed.

As for my personal thoughts...if you drop out that's points for me!!! :lol::woot::D But it's toy cars...and only a hobby...is it really a problem??? :lol:

As an aside to that...do you/did you intend to use your F grading for nationals/end of season entry next year? If you didn't then it's not really an issue anyway.

Yeah that is what I am trying to clarify also....do the results still stand for the previous rounds?

That is correct and I agree but it is also the drivers responsibility to make sure they have an upto date licence throughout the year.

I just asked Martin who has confirmed this with Jackie, if you can produce your membership card on Sunday then yes your rounds will count, if you cannot produce your membership card on Sunday then none of them count.

From your previous posts you have said that you cannot produce a membership card on Sunday so I am guessing no rounds will count. As Andy asked do you want to use the f grading for Nationals or end of season finals? If neither then I wouldnt worry to much.

Just a point to clarify that Andy mentioned about club membership. Both TRCCC, YRCC and WORM asked everyone about membership and BRCA membership. I was at a few meetings at these clubs where membership and BRCA was mentioned and I recall you were there. Why didnt you sort it then? Would be cheaper club racing for you as well :thumbsup:

Just to add to what Alan has said. We had a similar situation within the BRCA Micro National Series last year and after speaking to the BRCA Membership Sec (and Chris Hardisty) we were able to accept an email from the Membership Sec as prove of membership.

Email the membership sec just asking for them to confirm your BRCA Membership has been approved and processed, as it is Friday you may struggle to get your card through on time

I always thought to enter a BRCA sanctioned meeting you HAD to be a BRCA member, otherwise you have no third party liability insurance.
As for producing a licence, all any club official has to do is call the BRCA membership committee member (in this case Dave waters) who will simply confirm you are a member,
My personal take on it, not a member when you did previous rounds, so no points scored.

Exactley!! :thumbsup:

Whata salad. :yawn:

I understood you could not race at a BRCA event without being a member? Slap on the wrists somewhere....

Which BRCA committee member can confirm this? As I am not going down there if the points from the first two rounds don't count.

I don't think you should have even been allowed to race in the main class, let alone worry about points.

yeah but are you saying that as an opinion or as a someone who has the authority to make that judgement? Which BRCA representative do I need to speak to to get clarification on this?

In mid south it's no membership no race. All cards and pre booked entrants are checked online via the brca rep. No membership, no race as its an official brca sanctioned event. You have no insurance and no protection, as others. You need to speak with your area rep as all regions should abid by the same rules.

David Rowcliffe is still the SW regional rep for this year. I would suggest you speak to him to begin with.

His contact details are on the BRCA website.

BRCA rules from the BRCA site are clear, you must be a BRCA member and proofs it to enter a regional. You were not so even though its toy cars, you should have been refused entry, either way as a non member I fail to see how you can be allowed to take points for a meeting you were not a member at.


4. SANCTIONED EVENTS
4.1 Off-Road Sanctioned events include the National Championship Series, Regional Championship Series, the British Winter Open Championship, Junior & Veterans’ Championship, Inter-Regional F2 Championship and the Inter-Regional F3/F4/F5 Championship. It is possible that further specific events could be sanctioned by the committee.
With the exception of any Regional Championship series, the Section committee reserve the right to cancel any of these events if the entry numbers at closing date would result in the event not being viable. Entries received after closing date may not be accepted. 4.2 The Junior & Veterans’ Championship, Inter-Regional F2 Championship and the Inter-Regional F3/F4/F5 Championship will follow the general format of National events. The British Winter Open Championship may run to a variation.
4.3 Only Clubs/Organisers affiliated to the BRCA are allowed to run Sanctioned events.
4.4 Drivers entering these events must be a BRCA member, in order to compete.
4.5 At Sanctioned events, BRCA membership cards or proof of membership may be required to be shown at ‘booking in’.

It's also down to the clubs to ensure those racing have membership on the day. If you did hurt/mame/kill something or someone, it's the clubs problem, which means the committee and chair. It's in our interest to check and make sure a insured!

The SW abides by the same rules, but is a small relaxed region and does not have a prebooking system. Each club handles booking in on the day without the local BRCA reps input.

The clubs (myself and WORM being one) are clearly guilty of not thoroughly checking his BRCA status, but Dan is a local racer who's been racing at the local clubs all year, so it will have never occurred to any of us to check at this point, as he 'should' have been checked when renewals were being done. Somehow he slipped through the nets.

It was Dan's responsibility to ensure he renewed his licence, and the clubs to check that he had it, so he failed first, we failed him after that.

Dan should be left to speak privately to whoever he needs to speak to resolve this. It doesn't really need to be national chatter...though he's brought in on himself by posting here, so he shouldn't be surprised at the reactions ;)

Suffice to say that following this, I expect all the SW regions clubs will be more careful in future!

Agree Andy :thumbsup: however, should he of had BRCA after 3 meetings? Isn't that the rules for any brca affiliated club? I might be wrong though.

Im not particularly bothered who reads this to be honest Andy. I just want clarification as to where I stand as I probably wont make the journey down if I am only going to score points from the one round. But ill speak to Dave later and see if he can shed any light on the matter. If its bad news see you all in a few weeks, if its good then see you all on sunday :)

Go race Dan, rock up and have fun! Rules are rules but we all need to support the clubs!

To my knowledge, the '3 for free' only applies to brand new (never been a member) racers.

But he's been racing round here for years! So he's by no means a 'new' racer, and runs at the mid/top end of our A finals regularly.....so we'd all been (wrongly as it turns out) assuming he'd done his renewal like usual.

I have just spoken to David Rowcliffe who is on Holiday so you wont get hold of him! This is how it stands the points that you have scored already will not count as you were NOT a member of the BRCA !! Now that you are a member you can count your score if you wish on Sunday.

When you book in why are you not ask for your membership it don't take seconds to show it perhaps it something look at next season!!

Yes, this is one of a number of things that will be sorted in next years south west regionals. Turnout in the South West was pretty poor for a few years but as numbers and tracks are starting to get bigger we realise we have to step up our game and run a more professional championship. As said plans have already started for next seasons championship.

The way that I understand it is that if you do not have a BRCA card then you should not be allowed to race at any BRCA registered club untill you are in receipt of your card let alone race at a Regional event.

This is all a bit serious. A mistake to forget your membership but I expect we are all
guilty of forgetting more important things like mot and insurance before e-mail and
txt reminders became more common.
Also seems a bit mean especially as now a paid up member with membership running from November till November.:)

MOT and insurance are two other things you can't back date when you choose either :)

More important things? Really? I'll remind of this comment when a Non insured racer smacks into a marshals ankle, rendering him with broken bones and thus not being able to work for 6 months plus. The said non Insured racer could/possibly would get sued for the incident and cost of sickness off work and long term injury/problems. This would also, I think, fall on the club as well. So yes, it is a bit serious I'm affraid! :thumbdown:

With his £15 brca he's fully insured....

:thumbsup:

Toy Cars....:):thumbsup:

Completely agree, I wouldn't sue but some will....

Neil be aware that you are correct and the club chairman and committee would carry the responsibilty in a court of law!
It has been known for some unscrupulous people to go from track to track racing to get away without paying their BRCA on the old 3 meeting rule!
That is why it is know no card no race!

So scoring points isn't really that big a deal if its just toy cars...

Rules are rules.. If you don't join you don't race...

as the euro's are on at the moment the person who will make the final decision is in spain. however the fact you raced without membership will not necessarily mean you lose the points already gained, there may be a genuine reason why you did not renew, which may be taken into consideration.
although the decision to null and void your points may go against you it has ramifications on those still in any championships, if your points are removed does everyone move up? the person qualifying B1 to your A10 has been deprived of the possibility of finishing A1!. equally the whole regions F gradings will be affected.
i suggest you race as you are a member, something which can be checked online, then contact your regional rep and the chairman to discuss your case.