What do you 10th offroaders think of us 18th microers?
 

Serious question here..

Im keen to know exactly what you 10th offroad guys'n'gals think of the offroad micro scale scene, especially the National Series and the major one-off events we do.

My aim, as always, is to promote the micro scene and section to the best of my abilities so gauging how the 'outsiders' see the micro scene could potentially help us grow.
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And, how many of you reading this know that one of your 10th offroad types is our current reigning National Champion? (Craig Harris)

I think your just like us but smaller :p:woot:

But on a serious note, i think the micro scene will always struggle to get away from the toy image, i know they are not, but i think others see them as toys where as a bigger car may be seen as a race car. The other side of theings is that you are limited in a way to indoor events as i would imagine it is difficult to host an 18th event outdoor, unless its an all astro track and it has a very flexible layout to enable you to create a technical track for that size of car.
:thumbsup:

having been a 1/10 driver for the last year i can now say that im proud to be the owner of a 1/18 scale blaze and i thought 1/10 off road was fun ,,, these are mental and just as fun if not more plus with the sign of the times and these babies are the way forward im even considering doing cardiff too hehehehe ,,, plus the forum is the bomb and all the guys are really helpfull ,,, body paint ,cosie tom bowman , mr speedy and dan osbourne cherrs for the help so far guys ,big up the micro scene :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

I agree with you there Lee. Even after 3.5 years of doing this I still have to get over the 'toy' hurdle.

As far as racing outside goes, its never really been tried in any huge numbers, but I think thats mainly due to the size as you've said.

We live indoors for the time being atleast... :)

The hardest part for me is trying to get major manufacturers and distributors in the UK to get over the toy thing aswell.
We had a tonne of support when it all first kicked off but its slowly dwindled down, althoguh saying that some of our most loyal retail supporters still stand by us and help promote us as much as they can.

We also had a nice amount of 10th guys attend the last National series thanks to the publicity that Jimmy'n'Vicky have give the micros by writing us some brilliant race reports on the site...but im greedy and want more followers lol

Thanks for the reply though :)

they re just as good indoor lee as out door , im currently planning my revenge on the touring car scene with my blaze and brushless :thumbsup::p

I have seen pictures from most of the tracks from last years national series and I would have liked to have raced on most of them.

the biggest thing I found when going 'into' and unknown class like micro is knowing what stuff to buy or get to be 'fast'

if you want to dabble at 8th Rallycross, you know you need a .21 engine
10th scale off-road or TC, or even 12th scale, you know you need a 'good' 540 motor, you can find a list of them on the BRCA website.

the micro scene seems to be a bit unknown when it comes to motors/batteries and stuff.

there are places out there to find the information and ask, but it is not presented to you.

things do seem to be changing though, its certainly possible to buy an RTR LRP or FTX car, use the stock motor that comes in the kit with a LiPo and be fast, and the car is great too!

I actually like the indoor tracks and don't think they would be half as good as they are if it was outdoors.

the only aspect I don't like about it, is that the cars are not really 'equivalent' in durability and off-the-shelf performance.

forgot to add this but at one of our regional meeting paul at eastrax ran his blaze in open class with a few non point s running drivers and he lasted the whole 5 minutes and mullered half the drivers ,, eastrax would be a good venue for some 1/18 fun me thinks :p

Both valid points from Chris and Steve, and Chris' point is one that I never thought of.

Maybe its the fault of the organisers for arranging 'crazy' tracks that test the durability of the cars, and then maybe it is that the cars are put us as 'play things' more than racers.

Nevertheless, there seems to be a very small change in recent releases with the new LRP Shark Pro and Shark ST coming 99% race ready, and the XRAY M18T nearly ready to race all bar some decent shocks.

The strange thing to me though is that in the USA there is a HUGE micro following, with their Micro Nationals easily seeing 280+ drivers, and major support for the main manufacturers, yet we never see and kind of major race spec releases from those people?

Wierd huh..

I really do fancy a go at this, but all the Nationals and events seem to be "down south" really :( No micro racing scene at all up here :cry:

G

Good point by CD on the equipment thing, I wouldn't have a clue. Did the 2wd series ever get supported properly?

G

In terms of racing, its ace and an attractive class.

In terms of cars. I don't consider the options to be very good - as the ones currently available in the UK need plenty of mods to be competitive (and to be taken away from being toys). The AE 18th scales look to be the business, but experience (and general opinion from the people I ask before I chose this time around) tells me they're not what they're cracked up to.

For the class to take off, what it needs is a car to be out, competitive from the box but not RTR - not just another toy with a few alloy parts pretending - with no need to change shells, find the right wheels and tyres, fit the better shocks etc etc. so its just a case of choose car, choose running gear, assemble, setup and race.

The LRP Shark 18 Monster Pro looks to tick all but the bodyshell boxes - hope other chassis follow suit :thumbsup:

What IS attractive, is Lipo being allowed...... :thumbsup:

more north than me mate but im still having a go mate and you d rock with this northy

I'm not having a pop at all, I'm just telling you what is putting me off having a go :D

G

i was nt either mr north and your right about what to buy i ve had mine a week and run it at one club meeting but i ve just spent £70.00 and now i ve got 2 lipos a brushless and a fully hopped up ftx so not bad i think :thumbsup:

Hey G,

The problem we have is that our main following as such is Southern based. We have however got rounds at Macclesfield, Leighton Buzzard and Tamworth which are all kinda out of our 'Southern' catchment area, but whether they will be fully supported remains to be seen.

Id love nothing more than to have a round at some of your Northern indoor clubs that host all the indoor 10th stuff up your way, but its just a case of whether we will get the support from the travelling racers to make it worthwhile.

As far as 2WD goes, this year will be the first year for the dedicated 2WD class...only time will tell :)

hi cosie im gonna be flying my flag for micros in the mid east region and hopehully get a heat or two going at my club too already planning and thinkin about jumps and lumps and corners to bluid and the halls a good size too with a stage ,,,

1/18 is great,it lead the way with brushless and Lipo`s for a couple of years IMO cheap-ish and top fun.
I really dig the new 1/12 Tam tech gear on road stuff to,they are very lively when brushlessd"n"lipo`d up and the scale body details are stunning.
I think the micro scene is slightly ahead of it`s time here in the UK but we will catch up and interest will increase.

The micro scene beats most other scales out there for guys who'd like their kids involved. The micro scene is very open to having kids around and letting kids have a go both at racing and marshalling. It's the single reason I started focussing so much more on micro's. That's not to say it isn't furiously fast and competitive, come and watch an A final at the Nationals if you don't believe me. :D

Also we are not all too fussed about over governance (...although I see that making Brits uncomfortable all over the place because there are discussions about new rules all the time :)). All the rules fits on not much more than a single A4 page. Maybe we should make up 20 more pages of rules before people will start taking it seriously.

Ask my wife and all the people I work with and to them 10th scale and 8th scale cars, anything driven by a remote control for that matter are all toys too so it's nothing more than an perception\education\marketing issue.

From what I have seen in the UK people are more likely to stick to what they know whereas the Americans are not shy about wanting new toys.

We should stop fussing about getting existing racers to cross over to our beloved classes and get some new blood into the RC in general. We are threatened much more by the dreaded PS3 enemy. :bored:

Harris is the micro champ, heard that a while ago, but think that this scale is more like an RC that you'd give your kids rather than use it yourself. Not for me. I still think Craig is better with a 1/10th buggy. He drove his TRX1 to tq at the worksop indoor finals (way back in theearly 90's with a normal front spring on one side and a rear on the other (on the front end) but he just drove it perfectly in qualifying. He shouldnt have changed the spring before the finals as he would have won it instead of finishing fourth (I think it was fourth anyway).

W-Mag? :eh?:

G

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Have you ever even seen one we race with!?

Graphite, carbon fibre, sensored Novak brushless, lipo, Schumacher yellow Mini pins, carbon steel drive shafts and ball diffs, alloy suspension...... Not exactly ToysRUs Nikko cars. :yawn:

yes he has, but you outline the issue with the kits themselves there... you buy a Vendetta ST or Blaze and got to add driveshafts, ball diffs, shock mounts and towers etc etc... that has been the biggest dissapointment.

CML have the opportunity to, if they want, order a spec'd up car from Duratrax but don't, so it leaves you to source everything else, spending more on upgrades than the kit itself, this is what has put me off, cause unless you source a used and upgraded car, to be competitive, you got a bit of a bill on your hands.

How many people buy their 10th scale cars and race them out of the box without upgrades? 18th scale cars, even hopped up to the hilt are still cheaper than 10th scale cars not only to build to run and maintain.

We have been able to buy the LRP Shark Monster Factory Team for quite a while in the UK. That has every available hopup for £160. There is also a new LRP distributor which means the kits will become widely available all over the UK through your favourite shop. DMS will stock them too in all shapes and sizes.

Xray M18 carbon kits and Associated RC18B FT kits have been available for ever too. Exotek have been making carbon race chassis for well over a year. Rob Knight put a stock RC18 on the national podium and Mark Stiles put a XRay M18 on the podium so you don't need a Blaze to be competitive (although I think everyone agrees it's the better race car).

The issue is not availability, cost, quality of the kits, it's what you know and what you are used to and how open minded you are for giving it a go. Who cares what size the car is, you are still standing on a rostrum driving it with your thumbs making it go round corners and over jumps. You are still arguing setups and tyres choices and have your own dirty little secrets that you don't share with nobody. :thumbsup:

Saying these cars are just toys for kids are no different to my wife saying my B44 with Novak GTB and Trakpower saddles is just a toy for a kid. I guess both are right and wrong in the same sense. :D

but the RC18T isn't that good a car though.

What it really needs is for a company to make a serious car, and not an adaptation of something else. Thats what would turn this class round. Thats how I see it.

The problem with the cars now, that are cheap, is you are not upgrading for performance, you are upgrading for reliability.

Er..... most of them:

B4
XXX-CR
X11
XX-4
D4
501X
B44

All competative out of the box :eh?:

G

G - I didn't ask how many cars are competitive out of the box, I asked how many people race their cars out of the box without upgrades.

I can't speak for the other makes but I own a B4 and a B44 and it seems most people at the very least run Losi shocks on them right? Or how about some bling race winning screws and whitie o-rings!? :D Most racers don't give a monkey's about the cost (to a point obviously - I mean are Losi shocks really that much better to justify that cost if Mr Martin can win a national with Associated shocks on his B44?) or the reason for the upgrade as long as they end up with a good reliable car that is race worthy at the end of it.

DCM - in the US the only cars on podiums are the XRay M18 and the Associated's. They don't believe much in the Vendetta's there for some reason so they are very good cars in the right hands. These cars are very robust and the parts that break (and all cars break!) are cheap to replace.

This is not a what's better or worse thread so that's not the point of my posts. :) It seems to me that a lot of 10th scalers are under the impression that they are cheap crappy things that don't last 5 minutes when that can't be further from the truth :eh?: so it's worth driving home if for the very least to spark interest so that some people can at least come and have a look or think twice about micro cars and the micro race scene.

Where else are you going to find what i would consider what could potentially be your best bit of practise during the winter season for next's years 10th nationals!? :thumbsup:

I have to say i do feel the "toy" vibe, most of these chassis' as an RTR package need a bit doing to them from reading up before taking my plunge into micro!
Accessibility is also pretty low if you want a serious from the box track killer, they all need some kind of upgrading, Mini T's seem fragile and do not jump too well?
RC18's seem to suffer the same trait and i see many go the Exotek route?

I do feel 1/10 still has the edge in this area, and Micro is slowly coming up, but i do feel the Q needs to be asked, where are all these manufacturers with a full comp buggy? HPI Brama anyone?...too corny!

I think a full on mini XXX or even Mini B44 etc, would do a lot for the class, not everybody wants to run a Blaze, or a truck.

I remember way back i ran 2WD on road, and the only chassis on the circuit was a Serpent lol, and it was kind of boring not to see other cars, like i did in touring, even back then there were so many chassis' to choose from HPI Pro 2, TC3, Street Weapon and onto the XXXS, Schumacher, M1's, even Tamiya's ran at my local onroad circuit (Bedworth) etc.

Micro is so cool, and im not bagging on it, its a way forward to another good class of indoor racing (one that i cant wait to join in on) but it needs a big jolt, have somebody like Losi or even Yokomo jump in with some form of full on bad ass chassis with durability, and top flite performance from the box maybe?

lee

I don't know many who run Losi shocks on a B4, but thats personal chioce, but you are kinda missing the point we are trying to make.

In 10th off-road, you can buy a kit, race and have fun and only break if you have a bad off. With most of the micro cars, before you can 'race' them, they need some investment, and people just don't want to have to do that, they want to buy that car rear to race.

Blaze, to run and be reliable, the minimum is driveshafts and rear diff to a ball diff, just so you are not shearing driveshafts on landing, etc...

IF one of the bigger companies brought out a car that is ready for the track, I am sure more would take it up.

I think part of the issue with having to upgrade the car to make it competitive is that it plays into the toy aspect. It's a toy that you have to upgrade to make it into a race machine. If you had specific race machines that you buy and are competitive out of the box then it would do a lot to lift the image to that of a more serious nature.

Sure a lot of people have small ugprades on their 1/10th cars my impression from the 1/18th is you significantly upgrade the cars to make them more reliable and faster. That to me sounds more along the lines of buying durga and a load of upgrades to make it on pace with a 501x. The fact that the upgraded car and the top spec racer might be just as quick on the track is irrelevant, it's not the end result but the method of getting there.

Also im sure there would be be the fear that somebody might buy the wrong upgrades and therefore not be competitive before they started.

yeah, but the thing with the durga, is kit spec it will still be competitive, ask Jimmy

I was a bit reluctant to use the durga or the b-max as they are new exceptions to the rules but I couldnt think of any other budget car that would be properly competitive with extensive upgrading in 1/10th. I had thought of the dark impact but I dont think the fully upgraded versions of it would be as quick as race bred cars.

Good thinking on putting this thread up Cris, its interesting to know what people think!

I've raced most classes, micros still top the tables for me ;) The insane tracks, cheap racing and friendly atmosphere is just unbeatable! I've seen that a few people are saying that the cars need alot of upgrading and durability is a problem. I wouldn't say so, with the LRP Shark ST you don't need any upgrades and its all good! Not that its been that easy to get hold of but this car will now be distributed over here in the UK from September onwards :O As for durability these things do take a beating yet 99% of the time come off fine, i've never seen a car take so much abuse and not break!

Keep 'em coming as its a good read :)

I can probably count on one hand the number of B4's running Losi shocks at a 10th National tbh.

Most cars are fairly standard to be honest I would say. Certainly no need to buy driveshafts, diffs and the like to make the 5 minute mark :woot:

People do like to buy parts, but you certainly don't have to :thumbsup:

G

I would love to give micro racing a go but there isnt any interest in it here.

As that gets more known im sure it will help the class as im a complete outsider to it and I've always got the impression that the cars needed significant upgrades to become raceworthy which would put quite a few people off im sure.

Id say the one thing that held me back getting into Micro, was the fact i hate trucks, and its pretty much all that was on offer.

The only decent buggy was the Blaze, and TBH it didnt do anything for me.
Hence i had to wait and be patient to track down something from the Xray/Team Bluegroove converted side of the market...and sadly, thats really does get expensive.

I reckon, get a couple of the big guns making true scaled down 2WD/4WD buggies we all know and love, and itll be even bigger than it is now, and still, i cant wait to get my first meet under my belt!

lee

Still don't see what the big deal is? £60 for a Blaze kit, Blaze drive shafts are £12-14 for 2 drive shafts, £12-14/carbon steel ball diff.

Compared to £60+ for a single front one way for my B44. How many B44 shock towers, top decks shock shafts and front arms have I and other people broken for the car to last 5 mins? I seem remembering having to buy proper AC shock towers before my kit shock towers stopped breaking :D So not that many people run Losi shocks on a B4, does anyone run them on their B44's then and does that make it less of a valid point? :rolleyes:

Seems to me you are all convinced that 10th scalers are the only real proper race cars then :( Better focus our efforts somewhere else Cris :thumbsup: or would you feel better if a 18th scale kit cost £200+ and was proper race ready? :woot:

Look Cool But ?
 

Micros look cool and are way quick but ! The reason I do 1/8th is I got big fingers ! Feet ! Belly ! etc etc ! 1/18th 1.5mm screws just to fiddly !:p

no, what we are saying is, that for most of us, 18th scale is some fun, but we like to race that fun.... so what looks initialy as a cheap scale, isn't..... thats why it would benefit from a car that is good out of the box. So you don't have to buy the upgrades if the stock items were up to it... I think the first day I run the Blaze, I did a plastic driveshaft every run... then when I swapped to proper driveshafts, then I had to replace the rear diff.... then the plastic clips that hold the top of the shocks on started to pop.... always chasing reliability, whereas a one-way is just a tuning option.

I would happily race one, if it was reliable, had decent diffs and slipper clutch.