If/when Li-Pos become legal
 

Next season, hopefully, Li-Pos will be legal to use at regional and national events. I was wondering though whether people think the minimum weight of the buggys will be reduced so as to allow cars to run without the need for extra ballast, or will the weight limit remain the same meaning that racers have to use lead etc to be race legal?

This has already been discussed in another thread.

The weight limit is global, and should remain global.

If all bodies lower, then so-be-it (although it'd be unfair on Nimh racers who are well over the current limit), but id certainly be against the BRCA lowering it if they were breaking away from the global limit.

I'm a lipo convert and I reckon the weight limits should stay as they are so those who run cells can contilue to do so

I think its worth pointing out that it will only become BRCA 'legal' for next year if WE the 10th offroad racer goes to the AGM and vote it in.

The more people that actually go and vote, the more chance we have of getting it in :)

If it gets proposed ill gladly come along to the AGM to vote for it.

O it going to get proposed. and so far me, chris cocker, mr long are going anyone else that wants a lift on the way let me know, first come first served

when and were is the agm?

without wishing to get into a debate about the pro's and con's of lipo cells i think it does need pointing out that just because you vote for something at an AGM doesn't mean it will happen, as an example proposals to use a limited number of tyres at an event could be passed, it is then up to the off road committee to try and sort out how, it has been discussed on here before that it would be almost impossible to police and scrutineer, so it probably wouldn't happen.
similarly lipo's, vote whatever you want, but it doesn't mean it will happen.

I think there are other things to take into consideration too.......

EDIT, Damn, John beat me too it! :)

G

I thought the BRCA was run by us the racers? Therefore if we vote in a rule it would be followed?

I can understand not using it on something like limited tire quantities due to the extra work involved for Voluteer's, but surely if a rule as simple as allowing Lipo's is passed there is no reason for them not to be used? :confused: Especially as the hard work (making rules/lists) has already been done for the touring car section this year.

Agreed John, there are a lot of issues with lipos that a lot of the public do not know and that i cannot go into on a public forum. There are a lot of safety issues with regard to them and basically its the EB who have the final say on what we run. I would not want to run something that has not been passed by people much more knowledgable in than me in that particular field.;)

I feel a lot of peoples trip to the agm, just to vote for lipos could be a wasted one.

Well I'll be going to my daughters christening...... :D

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Can I come??

Christening that is...

JIm:woot:

Im going to graham and jims daughters christening too

Er.... don't you have to be there? :(

G

Whatever rumours do the rounds. The proposal needs votes to get passed so im still fully intending on going, as is Carl & Matt, Cocker and a few guys from Southport. Don't let the rumours put you off attending, show your support.

I am strongly against running Nimh cells for any longer than I need to, they're unreliable, unpredictable, unsafe and make racing too expensive, then with all the voodoo on charge, discharge, equalise, storeage.... :thumbdown:.. for godsakes, Lipo's don't even need to be assembled!!! How easy could they be.

If the passed proposal still gets turned down on other grounds, well it'd need to have good proof on whatever grounds. But if the rumours put you off attending and it doesn't get passed in the first place - well it'd be a shame to have not tried. :(

I was planning on going to the AGM to be involved in the process and to know in my mind whether the right decision was made.

However I too am going to Mia's Christening.

They should do 'online voting' for those that can't make it.
Yes we should all support our hobby and should vote towards things that need to be voted for. But, there are actually things, that in the real world, are actually more important than model car racing (such as Mr G's daughters christening, and my own situation with the twins which will be kicking in around that time too).
So I think they should hook with present technology and add online voting.
I'm sure most people (like myself) would love to come along and vote, but just have more 'important' things to be doing.
I used to go to all the AGM's and vote for subjects related to the extinct F1 class, even though there was only a handful of us racing in it, so I know what its all about. But as I said, I've had more pressing engagements in the last 10 yrs or so like, family, business, work that haven't allowed me to go.

Personally, I don't see why they shouldn't allow them. The TC lads have run them all year without a hitch (not that I've heard of anyway) and they'll charge theirs at stupid rates to get every last ounce of performanc out of them. We on the other hand, won't have to realy.
And surely they can't be no more harmful that the cells we run now (and last year) yet we still run them.

:)

Totally agree with Chris Long here, if you don't go and show your support for Lipo then why should the EB even coonsider making Lipo legal for 09.

If you want something to happen you HAVE to make youself heard, that could be just a case of sticking your hand in the air to support a proposal and make the officials aware that we (the BRCA members) want Lipo brought in.

double post

i hate to point the obvious but, the there is a brca lipo list, that is being used by the on road section, how could they say no to one yet ok for another??

As far as im aware it isnt the EB that calls the shots over whether a section can use LiPo's. The EB (again, as far as I am aware) put out 'legal' lists that they deem fit. That doesnt mean, however, that the section has to use these lists.
Obviously sections do use the EB's lists as the EB do a tireless job in making sure all the cells on those lists are not only fair across the board but also as safe as they can be. Gotta give the EB props for that!!

Look at the micro section. LiPo's are 'legal' in our section yet we have not approached the EB to draw our lists up.

Yes, it gets all complicated and technical, but at the end of the day, as has been said before, its us the BRCA members that have the power to change the rules. If you want LiPo's voted in then we have to all vote them in first off!

PS: If it does get proposed ill be there alongside Chris and Craig with my hand in the air for sure.

this "dangerous" lipo thing always makes me laugh.

I have seen lipo's in soft cases from r/c motobikes that are bent and damaged, yet they still run them

I have used Lipo's for one and a half full seasons in my 2wd, 4wd and truck. They have seen some huge crashes, including a snapped chassis on the truck and very high flying in the X5. one even fell out of a car and hit the track markings. Guess what? It didn't blow up, swell or set fire to the track and all it's surroundings. they still work fine and provide plenty of power - infact they feel as good now as they did when new.

How many ni-mih cells have blown this year? I think at least two went bang at the Southport National, some went "bang" in worksop, they have gone bang at the Supercup. And yet we have to charge lipo's in a sack. It's only been lucky that no-one has been injured with these ni-mih's blowing up.

Ni-Mih's go "bang" and send shrapnel far and wide, and still people say "oh, those Lipo's are dangerous, I think I will stick to my Ni-Mih's 'cos we know about them. They re safe....."

How many Lipo's have gone on fire or blown up this season in t/c's motorbikes or the off-road classes? I haven't heard of a single Lipo go on fire or fail in any way this year, and with forums such as this knocking about, if one had gone "bang", we would all know about it.

Lipo's are not dangerous in my opinion. Use the correct charger and follow the instructions an they are safer than ni-mihs.

i haven't got any LIPO's yet (!), but am on edge charging my NiMH cells when i'm near them now, having seen them explode.

I kinda miss the days when the dangerous nature of cells just wasn't an issue:(

This is what the Brca will be wary about, i agree and im sure anyone who treats them as intended will be very happy with the performance and lifecycle of the cells, its when people overcharge or raise the current to get that bit more performance, (and it will happen at some point) that accidents occur. Lipos do crazy things when overcharged and there is no easy way to regulate this for the BRCA.

I`m not against them in anyway, but after speaking to PW at length about lipo cells and the future i can see some potential issues with lipo, if mistreated.:)

Blame the Chineese! :woot:

G

I was informed by a touring car racer (does all the TC nats) that some scrutineers are checking the output voltage of cells before races. that has to be a good idea, since he had anecdotes of some racers charging their cells up to 10v before a race for a bit of extra start line 'oomph'....

if the pack is showing more than 8.4v (for 1/10th), the driver shouldn't be allowed to run.

Mmmmm, UKAS calibrated DVM anyone? :woot:

G

im glad im not the only one on edge when charging

at EPR whyman told me to charge at 5.5 amps on his 2wd cells- i whimped out and went to 1c

olny did the final pack at what he said
never staid in the tent when i pressed charger mode

Hey Cris,
Yep I have sent a proposal to Charlie. I think Jonathan Clark is writing revised rules as direct replacements in the handbook (need any help JC?), and there is nothing stopping anyone else sending additional proposals too.

Glad to hear you'll be at the AGM :thumbsup:

I might see you at some 18th nationals too :) Just trying to get some stuff together again.

i only charge at 4 amps, the night before. i still think my 2wd (with a 6.5) is overpowered. I don't see the point in whacking up the amps in off road at all

As do NIMHs which is why the BRCA released guidelines regarding the charging and maintenance of them. Sounds like the issue for both types of cell, relates to the user rather than the cells!

I totally agree but you do not get the gains from a nimh that you do from a lipo by overcharging ;)

I wouldn't know I never overcharged either! http://www.pistonheads.com/inc/images/angel.gif

I have charged at 10amps in the past when racing stock snorers but never charged a lipo. This is just information i have from a reputable source :woot::p

lee good claim mate, you can see issues if somin is mistreted, would some one chuck a lite match in a bucket of petrol?
do nimh go pop if mis treated, is the idea not o miss treat em.?

im my opinnion anyone caught mistreating and endajering others should face a year BRCA ban if caught, simple as, make that he rule and let them take the change if they want to be dicks

i think the main issue with lipo's is the hard/soft casing on them and what's better/more stable, i understand the manufacture's say softcase is far better for performance at least
im sure 99% of us don't know the real reason there's issue's

I'm going to be really uncontructive now, but I couldn't give two figs what the BRCA decides about if we can use LiPos next year, my 2 local clubs Lawford and Coastal already allow the use of them, so I'll be using them no matter what the BRCA says, if that means I don't get to do Regionals, fine, it'll save me money travelling miles to stand in wet fields.

how can a hard plastic case alter performance

don't get me started on the potential issue's with LiPo.....

As long as they are on a LiPo capable charger, with the correct mAh setting and the correct cell number, they are fool proof.

As soon as you start saying that LiPo got to be charged in sacks and you got to do this and that in the name of 'safety' then you got to do the exact same thing with NiMH's. In fact, right now, I reckon NiMH's are far more dangerous than a LiPo pack.

In the end, if you want to be a tit, and not charge correctly, then you don't deserve to be racing, LiPo or NiMH's, thats my opinion!!

god i never thought id read you posting that about lipo!!

we agree at last :thumbsup: