A question for all racers.
 

I would like peoples opinion on the following:

If you are racing very close to someone and tag the back of them and then getting past, do you let them back past?

The reason for asking is that no one has ever let me back past after taking me out. I did it to someone a few weeks ago at a national, let them past and lost loads of places in the process.

Of course those of you who plough into the back of people every race don't need to respond as you are never going to let the victim past again:)

Depends for me, if i do it whilst following i stop, if however im side by side and either they or me bounce sideways i don't stop

I would like to think that I would stop and let the other person past, if I had just nailed them.

Honestly I don't always do it.

I know others who are better and others who are worse than me.

If your ahead on the split they should leave you alone / let you go.

I they are ahead you should let them go.

And if i tag anyone in a final i always give up the position.

If you're qualifying, both should respect the split and let the faster car through.

If racing, and I tag someone, I'd like to think I would wait, and I try to on most occasions (some which have cost me many places at big races), but to be honest, I havn't waited every time.

I do respect the gesture a lot if I am tagged, and the other person waits. An example being getting tagged accidentally on landing by Shifta in January in a final at Worksop. He waited, let me recover, and he lost another place because of it, but big respect.

It's good to see this topic raised, these things should be highlighted and promoted within the sport from time to time.

I don't know if there's really a good answer to this. :(

Back in the day, it was considered "common courtesy" and/or "gentlemanly driving" to give up the position to someone your actions resulted in them wrecking. ... Regardless the circumstances.

Unfortunately, not so much today - as the "plow horse" type drivers outnumber the rest of us. I can't even remember the last time I heard a race director black flag someone, or chastise a driver for rough driving.

While I can count on one hand, using two fingers, the number of times I've had someone show any courtesy or pull over to allow me to regain my position in the last year - just off the top of my head I don't have enough fingers and toes to count all the times I've been crashed and even had my car broken during the same period, and not a peep from the guilty party.

Matter of fact, a few months ago I actually had instances two weeks running in which a race director, who just so happened to be running in my heat, wrecked me after I'd passed them cleanly (once when I was lapping them) - the second instance of which I grumbled something on the driver's stand, to which they responded loud enough for everyone to hear, "I don't move over for anybody."

So as a result, unfortunately, I've been forced to take a bit of a change of attitude relative to my own behavior on the driver's stand. A lot depends on whom I'm racing against, as if it's a club race I generally know the cars of my competitors - but, being as since (as a general rule) I'm not given any courtesy any more by my fellow competitors, I'm not going to give them any quarter either. I hate saying I've taken to this, but it's a matter of if nobody else cares then why should I........

If I do take someone out, I apologise and slow down a little. However, I've grown up with btcc/v8 supercars/nascar etc so a good race for me constitutes of a bit of light contact. I would never take someone out deliberately though, and I am thankful to race at a club where bad driving is virtually non existent.

Its all down to if it was geniune, i mean i was having a couple of great races with a chap at maritime, but did clip him by mistake and didnt stop but did apologise, and he was ok with me.

If its a continuous thing then i would suggest doing a t bone to the culprits everytime they come close to you and it wont take long for them to realise not to hit you.

in touring cars you are expected to stop and wait. In off road i have seen this happen a few times and wish they would have a race ref (at big meetings) to enforce this happens as racing isnt just how quick you can be but also control which includes not hitting cars around you. If it was enforced then it wouldn't happen so much. At a regional recently we watched a final where 1 car smashed its way to the front and won!!!

Driving standards is an interesting topic that I was discussing with a few other racers this weekend. my gut feeling is that there are a couple of key factors that add up...

1/ Electric cars, especially 4wd, on grippy astro, are missiles. Anyone can whack in a 6.5 - 5.5 motor, punch it and hang on. If people are honest, how many of us are 100% in control of our cars all of the time? If you're racing nose to tail; you need reactions like lightening.

2/ 5 minute races. You have 5 minutes to get it done, so you have to be 'on it' all the time. I race 8th as well, where typically we have 20, 30, 45 or 60 minute finals. The longer duration means people aren't so flat out, elbows out, the whole time. You have time to sit behind someone and plan a way past. The race tends to ebb and flow more, and cars typically aren't so bunched up.

Dirty Elmes!!!

I'm still a newbie to RC racing (6 months with a 2wd buggy) and so haven't done any "big" meets yet. But, I did race karts and small full scale cars for many years.

I take a similar view to RC that I do to full scale motorsport (as really it is based on the same principles) that an element of contact is always going to happen and is part of the course really, especially when handling vehicles (of any size) on the edge.

Therefore a little rub as you slid up the inside or a light nudge, nose to tail, is not a misdemeanor as long as the other driver's race/progress (other than your pass) isn't disrupted because of the contact e.g. he doesn't get put on his roof, left on the wrong side of the edge rope/trunking or slammed into a wall.

A serious error in judgement, which results in the above examples, by you should always be acknowledged by letting the aggrieved driver back past you. :blush: In full scale motorsport a serious error in judgement normally ruins your car too and often you're out of the race, so this isn't necessary/possible, but an apology afterwards is usually given.

Luckily, as I'm new, I'm normally the one trying to get out of quicker guys' way, but most at our local club are very good. There will always be "red mist" moments but they seem to be quickly forgotten and forgiven. :thumbsup:

Maybe my opinion will change after my first series of regionals and I'll take an approach similar to Sebastien Vettel! :o

It depends on the situation. If I ever tag someone and it's blatantly my fault (accidental or going for a gap) I always try to make a point of not only making sure they're back in front of me, but backing off a little bit for a couple of corners for them to get back going. If you knock someone off line and hold back initially but immediately stick your nose back into a gap that's not there you're not racing fair IMO.

To be totally honest it ends up being my downfall in some of the bigger races, especially mid to back of the pack in national A's where these days fair racing seems to have taken a back seat in favour of winning at all costs. It's a shame there's so few people at the sharp end you can have a fair/proper race with now :(

Says it all Rich, well put. If you hit someone and go past, that's not racing, it's being a thug. When you race with people fairly and properly it is much more fun. Why do people want to bully their way to the front when no one cares or remembers who wins the Z Final, but they always remember a great race between good drivers? Beats me....

Back in the day when we went through periods of " undisciplined " driving...often less experienced drivers...we appointed a chief marshall for the day, usually a committee member to oversee driving standards and issue warnings...worked very well....there was often a race commentator who also kept standards up.:blush:..
Don't know whether it still applies, but at Regional and National events there was a referee on the rostrum advising drivers..this always worked well...particularly when it was Shimmy.:)
Driving of any kind needs to be policed..!!

I dont mind bit of contact. as long they dont t-bone me or anything extreme like that... some people dont like contacts, this wreck thier nice paint job.. racing is contact sport.

I race 1/10th buggys indoors on a very tight track and it seems when ur trying to pass or lap anyone ur cars become a magnet to each other. This u can put down to racing incident. If it's deliberately boosting into the back of someone it's not good but that sort of driver wouldn't wait.
I actually hit the back of someone last week, racing incident causing him to go off the track, into a crash mat and then the crash mat falling on top of the car, I waited until he was back on the track.
There will always be people who dont and people who will.

Got to be honest my bigger frustration is marshalling! Especially the top experienced drivers who stand chatting with there hands on their pockets or looking else where! I have always put as much effort into that as my racing but there are so many people who dont and that can really ruin someone's race. Ok u shouldn't crash but if u do I expect to be marshalled promptly but it never happens. Dont get me started on people sitting down when they are marshalling!
My personal opinion.
:)

:thumbsup:Love this thread. A lot of it is down to driving standards, as you say winning at all costs. I come from an age (1986 when I started racing) when the race controller/director would tell the drivers over the microphone to let faster cars go past (if being lapped), in my eyes banging wheels with someone who has the same pace as you and the drivers respect each other is a different matter, it makes for good racing. The thing that does my head in is when you are lapping a car and telling the driver that they are being lapped and they totally ignore you and fire you of the track when trying to make a pass, granted accidents happen as with anything else, but when it happens week in week out it gets a bit much:thumbdown:. The stagger start is a good one as well, why do people race each other during qualifying? I tell my son not to do it because you are only racing the clock:D
Who can honestly say (hand on heart) if they roughly know where the other drivers are on the track during a race, because I can and so can a few of the guys I race with, this makes for good racing because they all know where each other is This seems to be the problem with a lot of drivers, no awareness of space

you should wait if you take someone out in race . I personally will never take anyone out on purpose I will just sit right behind them 9 times out of 10 they crash within 2 laps anyway and you can get past them you can always tell old school racers because they have far more courtesy than the new school

I've raced in different classes over the years from minis, touring cars, 1/10 off road and 1/8 off road. I have found if I got tagged in touring cars then the chances are that the person would stop and let me pass. This is the way it should be in all classes of course but off road for some reason is more a free for all I've found. Now, there are some good guys out there who will stop, but in off road they are few and far between. I also feel that if you do get "tagged" and them the person drives on, then you are more likely to do the same yourself. It is something that happens a lot more in the lower heats and finals.

It's simple - treat others as you would expect to be treated.

When I started racing as a kid (20+ years ago), you feared the race director's wrath! If you were unsportsman-like, you were dealt with swiftly. Very often kids with a good sporting manner were more respected over the kids that t-boned any car in sight - and this lead to you getting more help from the top racers. If you accidentally took someone out, you always waited in an attempt to defuse the race directors temper.... the racing was so close, you couldn't afford to get the penalty. Back then, kids took their penalties on the chin, sometimes even with a tear or two - but you respected the Race Director's decision and understood that we all need to behave fairly for the system to work.

Now that alot of the racers are adults, the unsportsman-like behaviour seems to creep out more often as drivers push the limit of what they can get away with, and some race directors seem to have lost their balls too or are just absent when needed which doesn't help. And of course, now being adults, Race Directors are getting lip and bad manners back from drivers when they try to execute their judgements.

My opinion is that if somebody accuses you of being unfair, you probably have been - so play fair, and enjoy your toy car racing.

Good topic
 

I race touring cars and as a few have already said most people tend to stop and wait if they've tagged someone from behind.

I sort of have a couple of rules with this, if I am qualifying and lapping the person then I generally expect that they should move over (as I do if I'm being lapped) this takes both parties no time at all and we can all get on with setting our fasting time.

In the finals its pretty much the same, if I was lapping someone and they didnt move over and I accidently tagged them I wouldnt stop (but would appologise) but if I was racing against them head to tail so to speak and I tagged them from behind (no matter what the impact) I would stop and wait, if side by side going into the corner then this is 50/50 and wouldnt wait.

.... and others simply ignore, or are ignorant of (and to), the rules - just bumps on a log, running the computer and calling out heats ...

Certainly not how it's run at my local club! The race director will absolutely lambaste anyone driving stupidly, which happened yesterday. He will also let you know when the leader is approaching, which is really helpful especially for a newcomer.

Now I've taken park in my second race meeting I can understand racing etiquette a lot more. I did, by mistake, take someone out yesterday. I landed a jump and was way off line so I tried to correct myself and in doing so took out a much faster driver. He didn't say a word, neither did I, I just let him go past as soon as he got back on the track. As a newcomer I'm usually at the back and because of numbers ended up in a 12 car B final. It was pretty hectic but the better drivers, all of whom must have lapped me at least twice had no problem at all getting past. As long as I held a line, any line really, they just breezed past no bother. It's drivers that are perhaps not quite as gifted that get their knickers in a twist!

That is so true! Just watch any A or B Final in any class to know exactly how it should be done. Watch the other finals for twisted knickers by the score! :)

That was me yesterday, not having a go at others as I knew it was my own lack of ability, but I was getting incredibly frustrated in those 12 car finals where I could get a moments clear track to recompose myself. One small mistake (whether my own or someone elses) meant getting in a tangle but instead of then being left behind in an empty space, you simply ended up in the middle of another scrap!

As you say, the better drivers seem to find their way through OK, so we all know what we have to do...

Yep, you should really wait. Again i see this all the time in TC racing but I don't really see it happen very often in offroad. Although when I started out in offroad it was really common, although I still stop.