SOUTHPORT REFEREES
 

To all those that I missed on Sunday a big thank you to all that helped me over the weekend in my tempory post as Head Ref.
You may now realise how difficult it can be up on the Rostrum.
Also to all drivers who in general drove with consideration to there fellow competitors.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsu p::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
See you all at Stotfold.

The referee'ing was excellent at Southport.

I believe somebody stopped Damo from calling through the lead cars when lapping, I thought that what Damo was doing was excellent and was gob smacked at him being told to stop. But nevermind, no hardship on me as I tend to know far before I am told if I ought to be pulling over - but some don't.

:wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf:

I can see two people who need to pay more attention at drivers briefing...:p

:eh?: who's that then? cos it ain't me.

Read what I said. I am not saying "Lead cars should be called through" am I? im saying Damo was doing a grand job and was stopped.

Ooooh i can see Chris` signature getting smaller :woot::woot:

Hello Chris, sorry but you might have got the wrong end of the stick?

What happened in 2WD was that I informed a driver that he had one of the top three in the heat behind him and the next thing there was a coming together on the concrete section before race control between said driver and the lapping/overtaking driver.

The overtaking driver had words with me at the end of the heat commenting that "next time can we have a referee on the rostrum". I obviously answered him in my usual caring, sharing manner.

At the 4WD drivers briefing Lindsay made it clear that whilst the referee has the option to call the quicker drivers through, it is up to the drivers involved to let the faster car go, the referee could not force them out of the way.

I also didn't ref round four because Phil Sleigh took over from Lindsay on heat two and he was happy to carry on so i let him.

All in all an interesting experience, in an ideal world we would have a team of independant referees but I guess that won't happen soon.

I don't think I am ready to take over just yet..........

I think you did fine, a ref can only be there to inform people car/car interaction is 100% down to the people twiddling the sticks or the wheel

Would also like to thank the refferees for stepping in too. I wasn't aware before this weekend lead cars cannot be called through like they used to.

(this isnt a rant - more a view)

I'd really like to know why however, as in real 1:1 scale racing cars being lapped are blue flagged and are then to move over and let the car through. I can't imagine it going down well when if it was up to the driver wether they let them through or not.

Driver etiquette is good when it works, but when some one is unaware of what is going on it's hard for the faster drivers to pull their potential.

An example being in 2wd I was on par for 14th in round, when a driver being lapped was not aware of the situation (not their fault) had held me up and an error between us was made as I tried to pass and them not knowing I was the lead car. On 3 occurences similar situations happened on the same day.

For me the faster cars being called through helps avoid situations like above, i'd be interested to find out why this 'ruling' has come in to place, and when the drivers had allowed this to happen.

Paul - you may have hold of the same end of the stick that Chris L had.

There has been no change, there is no rule, never was, no nothing.

It was simply clarified that the rostrum referee is not obliged to call the leaders through (he is not obliged to even be there), but he can do so if he wishes and if he feels it helps.

Agreed stu, i realise there is no solid rule to this, but I do notice the higher heats are always made 'aware' of the faster cars coming through - why them and not the lower heats? they're of the same importance.

The way i see it is its the same for everyone, they either have the same treatment or no guidence at all. and im sure more agree also.

Fair enough, got it.

The referee's do a good job, all of them whether full time or volunteer, Damo included. Its a thankless task where only the complaints get voiced which is a shame, we really should show our praise and hopefully our appreciation will bring back more regular call through's and such/or perhaps not, but we do need refs whether or not to stop any blatant bad driving, corner cutting etc etc.

just to quote this.. im not actually bad mouthing the reffereeing, the guys who do it do a great job, lindsay skelding showed me how hard a job he has on a few occasions. I told him my self it's a job i'd find difficult to do.

Don't worry Paul, I wasn't implying that, sorry if it looked like I was. :)

Just to add to this discussion....

Being in a commentated heat seems to be an advantage, as long you don't find it off putting and get "murray walkered".

The commentator is constantly making the public and hence the rest of the field aware of the position of the leaders. I think the back markers are much more aware when the commentator is on becuase there is the fear of public humilation on the tanoy if they accidently hold up or take out a faster guy.

""but I do notice the higher heats are always made 'aware' of the faster cars coming through - why them and not the lower heats? they're of the same importance.""

Im with you 100% paul

"
 

So am I, how are we to potentially catch the quicker guys if we are held up or taken out, we all know the importance of that extra second in nationals. Think if slower cars are not made aware that they will start being issued warnings for accidental hold ups or take outs. Think there should be a rule thst the top 2 or 3 are called through as this usually helps all involved.

making rules for this kind of thing is a big black hold or massive can-o-worms

might just be better to only have refs to monitor take-outs? balls to the faster car thing

Sorry chris but ive got to disagree - It's easy for you to say balls to it because in your heats the guys have the know how of what's going on. I'm an F2 and still find my self with people who need the extra help of a refferee to say a quicker car is coming around - I see it often in other heats i watch also.

But like you say the other solution is to completely scrap the guidence of faster cars - even for the big boys.

People knowing a body shell also helps. Over the winter I ran a BJ4 and borrowed one of Rich Lowes old shells. I have never ever ever ever had people jump out of my way at regionals so fast! :o

People in your heat know your coming Chris! :D

G

you might have miss-read my post or it might not have been clear.

my comment "balls to the faster car thing" was in relation to a suggestion to not offer help to any car in getting through traffic accross the board and that the ref is only there to police take-outs and bad driving

Hello, from my point of view i refereed as I would like my race to be refereed, I tried to keep an eye on the top three cars and who they were catching and I called out the race order a couple of times during the race.

At Southport it just so happened that I raced, then marshalled and then ref'd 4 heats which I suppose as I am an F2 the heats following are going to be F1 heats so they got the benefit or not as in the case of Mr Mgee (sorry about round one Danny!)

Other Refs on the day had different styles, I can only comment on Mike Riley who ref'd my heat, he spoke to all the drivers at the start and told them to move over for the quicker drivers, he also encouraged us during the race to go faster!

I guess everyone has their own style, I took example from races where Stuart Whyman has been reffing and Paul Draper from a few years back.

Maybe there should be a standard practice adopted by all refs for all heats so you know you are getting consistency accross the board. But then who will ref the refs?

Discuss.....

Nice post Damo :D

G

(your little side kick)

If anything the lower heats need more help i would say:blush:

Yes I must add that during the finals I had a spotter watching the back of the pack as well!

G and J:thumbsup:

Agreed on the refing thing good idea to have them shout the faster cars through,
it would be nice to have spotters go high go high.lol
may be marshals should have blue flags,?

very true G a lot of the top boys use large bright block colours to make the shell more recognisable to people as they hurtle up behind them at speed. as an example truemans shell is easily recognisable to anyone at various points on the track so you know when he is catching you or if you are catching him :woot: makes it a lot easier for the driver to see the car way before it getas there and often saves the ref a job of having to call out

Perhaps I could help a bit more. As I now seem to be commentating at most of the meetings, and usually the lower heats, I could try and call guys through a bit, and I could call the leaders position on the track more often, and possibly say the colour of their car, this may help people know where the leader is?????

But I would like to say, I think this thread is very good, alot of comments, all just opinions or suggestions, no bitchy-ness, but all said to help or better our sport!!!!

Well done guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

That sounds good:thumbsup: may also stop me getting " murry walkered"(which happens alot:blush:) if i get talked about a bit more

One comment I have, from being up on the rostrum reffing at the weekend is that when people are commentating it's nice to have numbers not just names! :D I've been racing a long time but don't know all the shells! :woot:

G

Can do, I will try and be more helpful!!!:D

:D well its about time you did:thumbsup:

It would help if the laptop on the rostrum had the current heat drivers list ordered by average lap time, not laps completed - this would stop the order jumping all over as laps are counted up.

Also it would help if the 'next heat up' was displayed sooner - possibly with 60 seconds to go - this would give the rostrum ref chance to look over who was on next and familiarize (is that a proper word) himself with who is where.

:eh?: OMG, what an open invitation for inuendo! Must resist. Must resist.

There is an advantage in using Yellow wheels and having a red and yellow shell. It is recogniseable at a glimpse. Some peoples cars I am fully aware of what they are doing while I am racing, no matter where they are on the track - just due to the colours being bright AND individual. Such as Ben Riley, Matt Benfield, Truman, Pidge. This is very useful.

DCMC, good idea. Im sure you'll agree that anything is worth a try if it is no hardship on you. if it doesn't work, then atleast it has been tried.

I have another question. What went on with the marshalling for leg 2 of the A final on Sunday?

Chris

I think it was to do with the marshalling in leg 2 on the saturday which effected sundays decision.. however i do hope i'm wrong

[QUOTE=Chrislong;145999
I have another question. What went on with the marshalling for leg 2 of the A final on Sunday?

Chris[/QUOTE]

Someone (no idea who) suggested that it would be a better idea for the C finalists to marshall instead of the F/G final. PW put it to the C drivers and they agreed i believe.

Having bright shells isn't always an advantage, especially in the lower heats. I mean, I've got a BRIGHT PINK wing that you can see for miles yet when I've raced I've been taken out whilst leading heats on numerous occasions.
I think the refs letting the slower car know is the best way, but it must be across the whole board, not just the higher heats, or heats where they know the drivers.

Yep it was the H final drivers which was me. He said he was experimenting this idea because it could be said that the drivers lower down in the H final for example might not have the experience to marshall an A final.

If that makes sense.

also 2 the point that there might be kids like conner cocker for example marshalling that are worried of being hit aswell by the cars

The score board at Kiddy was a really good idea and very helpfull for the drivers refs and speccies. I thought the BRCA were going to get 1.