Building a table top/whip table tops at outdoor venue...?
 

Now this is just a thought and I don't know the logistics of it but I was thinking the outdoor track would be so much better and a lot more character (like the old track or southport) with some more permanant features. My proposal is we build a table top/ whip jumps like Robin Hood raceway in front of the rostrum. I would gladly give up my time to build that as I think the track is a bit bare with very little permant features. What do we think about doing it over winter while the track is not in use? Again I dot know the logistics but want to see if there's a demand which I reckon there is and more importantly who would be up for it?
I think this would boost the club and attract more racers to club meetings

Gavin

I have been noseying round on line at 1/8th nitro clubs and I have noticed how good the tracks look with many features jumps table tops woops rytham (spelling) sections. Have a look at Stoke and Frankley track Gav to see what they are like.

I think the section of whip/whoops whatever they're called at RHR dirt if front of the rostrum are brilliant think the track would benefit hugely if it had something like that.
i know it's a lot of work but if we all mucked in could we do it?

The thing is the old track had a big jump that:

1: Many complained was a car breaker
2: Used to get massive puddles around it
3: Attracted a lot of unwanted attention

Its point 3 that matters here.
It was quite normal to turn up at the old track and have to turf a bunch of bashers with nitros off to set up the track. Then when we started to pack away there would be a crowd of kids waiting to ride it on their BMXes.
The nitros used to attract complaints from the neighbours about noise, and even though we are an electric club they are still technically 'our fault'. The kids used to damage the lips on the jump with their wheels, drop litter (broken glass especially) and generally vandalise the track. Furthermore if any of them got seriously hurt messing up to jump, legally we are responsible even though they are trespassing!
The new track was intentionally designed to be dull without track markings on it. It doesn't get so many nitros and bikes, hasn't had too much vandalism and isn't a PR/Legal liability.

In other words - by all means make a jump, but please make it removable. That setup was chosen for a good reason and the reason remains.
What we need is a removable jump that is neither the size of the massive tabletop monster, nor as violent as the ski jump. Something more like typical indoor jumps, but painted in a suitable coating that it will still grip when wet.

do it
bury needs jumps
but it also needs storage space
i think rogs jump could be modified to be a bit more user friendly
weve been going on about features for ages what about the lifting astro and reshaping of some features
or adding some differant surfaces i no it would be a bit costly both in manpower and funds
but it would add a bit of spice to track , an it does need something ..........

It seems the club since I've returned to racing and to the new track are cutting their noses to spite their face, it sounds so PC gone mad!? Same thing with the roof from the rostrum... We all get wet coz of a few kids.
All we're talking about is moderate sized table tops/whip jumps. Surely we can handle a few kids?
Temporary jumps are just not the same as shaped jumps under the astro. I'm just putting this out there from a racers point of view, other local clubs are attracting far greater numbers than we are and there must be one main reason and I'm sure it's the track. our track and the size of it is great and it's got huge potential. But at the moment it's basically touring cars with the double jump the only standout feature. I just think some new features (preferably a jump/table top) but something new would be an improvement to make over the winter?...

+1......

I get the feeling it'll be left falling on deaf ears but we'll see on Sunday what roger reckons

Also if jumps are a concern from kids then Why not put a bumpy section in like the back section at southport? Jumps would be nice but it just needs some more permanent features whether its a table top, jumps, bumpy section, level changes. Like I said I'd happily give loads of time to make this happen. But obviously need the go ahead from the club and other members and other people to help (preferably with experience from building the track in the first place

I'm not sure I get how the track is supposed to effect our standing in terms of local clubs.
Southport is always the busiest, but their track actually has less jumps and features than ours has!
Ribble run indoors on a Friday night, and get a somewhat different crowd as a result. Their track is completely flat bar one or two tiny hops, but they are busy every week.

Its not a case of cutting our noses - its the harsh reality of 2012. Our problems are not unique (lots of tracks get vandalised) but unfortunately our circumstances make it exceptionally bad. Our track is on public land in a built up area (Unlike say RHR which is on private land in the middle of nowhere, but still got smashed up!) and very visible (Southport is in a public park, but tucked away to one side) so it is an obvious target.
We also don't (or didn't when the new track was being built) have a large team of willing helpers to repair damage.
We do intend to have a roof on the rostrum - but a secure one.
Removable jumps might not have the same feel, but fixed jumps have one major disadvantage - they are fixed! Our track may look featureless, but it offers limitless layout options, and with movable jumps we need never race the same layout twice. Other clubs pretty much run the same track every week......

Yes that's exactly my point southport has no jumps yet it has character and load of feature. The best bit being the bumpy back section, why couldn't we build a bumpy section? Kids wouldn't be bothered to rides their bike on that? Just something else if not jumps. A good well designed bumpy section would be brilliant. Surely there's no case against that?

Southports members complain about the bumpy section. It wears down tyres fast and scratches chassis.

Now before you say it yes, I know - Offroad racing!
All I'm saying is that you can't please everyone, and all track 'improvements' also have a downside.
I was in favor of concreting over the big central dome, with a Bury logo painted on as a change of surface - but then I did the Woodvale Rally meeting at Southport and killed a set of tyres. In an entire outdoor season with my 210 I've used up just 2 sets of Minispikes, and both were fine till I went to Southport. Our current track just doesn't wear tyres much which means the real cost of racing is a lot less. Might not sound much but if you add a bumpy section and tyres suddenly last meetings instead of months that won't help numbers either.

And southport has miles more feature than bury. It has concrete, cobbles, bumpy sections ect. Now I'm not saying do all that but surely we could build something new?

Southport wears tyres because of the concrete asphalt and cobbles not because of the bumpy bits. If we made a bumpy section under the astro, bingo tyre wear the same.

Absolutely. We certainly need to do some restructuring and reshaping of the existing features, and there is a case of adding some features at the same time. Some bumps under the astro makes sense - it wasn't considered at the time as the old track was very bumpy indeed and we were glad to get somewhere smooth!
But actually we have more features than you'd think already - they just aren't always used or used in the right way. The big dome is actually best employed as an off camber bend, the cross works especially well if approached at an angle, we rarely even use the banked bend. The problem is as they are under the astro you can't see them so people forget they are there!

just cos your to tight to buy tyres si, doesnt mean we cant have a bit of tarmac or cobbles . the old brick corners were ace . and didnt damage chassis... much . but like you said OFF ROAD
get some materials and let me loose with the rest of the boys who want a bit of mixed surface and airtime .
also a metal bar that bolts across the front of the jump take off would stop any pit bike nitro action
they do it at bmx trails to stop idiots
we could easilly fit it .... in front of the amazing new features that bmrcc need on track

also got an idea for making a wall ride outside with rogs table top . well easy no need to butcher it just a couple of screws

All sounds interesting, I suppose we'd need to see what Roger says first.

Chris

Yeah the removable metal bar in front of a whoop jumps is a good idea that would stop idiots, I like the sound of it. I've always wanted a couple of big jumps that have not only a take off but a down ramp to aim for. If we could build something like the whoops at RHR in front of the rostrum it would be awesome. And as for people not seeing features maybe we could spray white lines next to them in a similar way that they do in the US on clay on the take offs and landings of every jump?

Also about the banked bend, the problem is that it's too far into the corner and too sudden a banking so it's hard to implement it into a track

That why we need to restructure. Remember this track wasn't built by us, just for us. It was meant to be a lot higher but the builders won't take it above the fence - being taller it would have started earlier and had a more gentle curve. Of course there is nothing stopping us making it how it was planned.......

I think we should open up a 2m x 2m and maybe a metre deep bomb hole in front of the rostrum.
This would be a great feature as you can dive into it, and ramp up the other side, like at RHR. Wouldnt be a hard task.
Lift the astro, dig a hole, and nail the astro back down :drool:

Well you would need more astro as if you go up or down the astro has more area to stretch over and cover. That sounds a cool idea too what you reckon about the two whoop jumps a small one followed by a bigger one. It's like a rhythm section where the car flows over each jump

I think any kind of track update would be good.
It needs something else, as we race there week in week out and tracks are getting very similar.
Maybe we can arrange a work party for Feb/March next year, when hopefully there isnt any snow.

To be honest Chris your most likely to get snow in jan/ feb. if the weather carries on like this it would be possible as its still very mild for the time of year. Obviously digging ect would be difficult when it's frozen

track
 

I think digging a bomb hole in front of the rostrum or any hole for that matter is a bad idea. The track gets water logged after heavy persistant rain and thierfore would be more like a swimming pool. Some of the other ideas sound good.

It's crap because its a single surface and flatter than a lady boys chest!!!����

So we're in general agreement that the bowling green with dead hamsters buried under it needs turning into a proper off road track
I reckon there's funds
But is there enough willing grafters
There's normally only a bout three people to ten people's job
Bomb holes could be tricky with bury weather
But reshaping some of the features or laying over the top in concrete cobbles or flags would work

C'mon committee listen to your members
We love bury club
But the track is getting beyond boring
Good for learners then two months later when they can drive better they are bored to
Table tops
Doubles
Triples
Wall rides
Drop offs
Step ups
Berms
Off camber
On camber
Brick berms
Tarmac sections
Grassy sections
Kickers
Sweepers
Death or glory
Big air
Power power power
Drift drift drift

Like the old track was
Fun exciting and challenging

Please

Yeah bomb hole =bomb pool. Well first off the bat I'm in so there's 1. We need need a show of genuine helpers. (If we're given the go ahead obviously)

count me in

I'll stick my gardening gloves on!

Numbers isn't really the problem (well its part of it!) - what matters is skills. Once we start work we are committed to completing it - and lifting that astro is no easy task so whatever we do needs to be right first time.

Therefore what is needed is not just helpers but experts and a project leader. We need a proper design, a single person who will have oversight for the whole project and people who know what they are doing. Someone who knows about astroturf, about jumps, about track design etc.

It won't work just to get a few people down one weekend, knock up a bombhole, then some others another time to do a set of doubles etc. All you'll end up with is a badly designed mess that doesn't flow at all. As has already been said some of the current features suffer already from having been done by builder not racers.

So - we are back where we always end up on this subject. There is no objection in theory to some redesign work, but it needs to be just that - a redesign not just slapping in some random bits. And that means it needs a project leader. If someone is up for that role we can start the ball moving.....

Well the most experienced driver at the club is woody and since he designed the new track originally (albeit then not built as originally designed by the builders) I'm sure he would know what would work and what wouldn't so prob best to bring up the ideas with him tomorrow and see if he'll help?

That's exactly why he should stay well clear. Just let Johnny go nuts and it'll be fine

Do you mean like this??
 

Watch this video:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=roTBwM59Yzg

BUT you'll notice there's not much variation with these permanent features. so the layout can't change much.....just like boring cars.
Sorry Chris.

Hmm astro covered jumps look good
and I see ya point but there track hasn't got as much space as ours even enlarging or reshaping what we got would help
Any one on here got any track design or even cad design experience
We could get some 3d plans of features to give us an idea
Photoshop em In we can see how they fit

Sis right if we do it
We do it properly

To be fair roger that's a permanent track isn't it? Our track is huge and there's plenty of things you could built but the variation comes with the placement of the features and the orientation, I.e if you put them in corners or right against the edges then you're restricted. Surely it can't be too hard to build them? You bring a car and try it as you build

Hi Bury,

Spotted your chat about track design, and although I'm not involved in any way with your club, I have been involved in building a new track in Weston (WORM in the South West) over the last few months, so have an idea of what your going through, both on the design front and the manpower and effort!

Prepping to build ours we spent a lot of time looking at other tracks: oople, youtube, UK, US, Europe, japan. I have been doing nationals and picked up many ideas from what are supposidly some of the best tracks in the country.

Our main design goal was to create something that had no hard edges, no obstacles and no geometrically engineered shapes. We specifically did not want to make a touring car track with 'features' (like in that vid above!), or an indoor track outdoors. They can look really nice and well dressed, but are not really offroad IMO.

We tried to create a landscaped and shaped OFFROAD area that could have track markings laid anywhere in any direction, that offers smooth transitions between lumps, banks, bumps, camber changes and elevation changes. Something that makes the most of (and enhances) the natural features that the area we had already possessed. We also then planned in a few areas that would offer jump opportunities if the track was laid correctly, but that even then those features could be run and used with variation.

That was the goal, and we're still finding out how well we've done, but the signs so far are good, and the feedback has been great so we're quietly confident we've achieved some of our goals...so far!

If I could offer any design advice...Features that make you slow to a crawl so you can make them without crashing are not racing features, they are obstacles...it's offroad racing...not rock crawling, and we all want to go fast when we're racing!!!

Think beyond the normal jumps and table tops (although having a bit of that is obviously cool!), and think shapes! Shapes and camber make for technical challenge without severely punishing driving mistakes...this not only makes for fun tracks and better racing, but less marshalling too...and we know how much we all dislike marshalling, and being marshalled ;)

Anyway, good luck, I look forward to seeing the fruits of your labours :)

I have to agree with the general consensus here that we do need more "features" of some sort. I would be more than willing to pitch in and help.

Well maybe we should have a bit of a chat tomorrow at Oldham because it seems the general consensus is that we all agree that we'd like to change;
A. The current features that it seems we've not been happy with from the start (banked bend etc) and
B. add some new features to give it more character

We need more track building experience for me, somebody to take charge and keep things moving. If we start hacking away at the astro without proper guidance we could end up making more of a mess.
That said, if we can get it well planned out it will definitely improve the track no end.

Chris