new amb system
 

seems there was some discussion at the agm re mylaps/amb, where the "new system" will not count mrt and the old amb bugs.... anyone add more light?

taken from a post on maxbashing tonight :-(

So what's that in English?

Will my MRT PTX work?

Which AGM was this?

My understanding is decoders will be upgraded to RC4's from RC3's, not sure what that means. The old style AMB's may not work with RC4 and MRT's will not work.

BRCA

:confused: still none the wiser, is this upgrade a software or hardware upgrade?

We visited MyLaps headquarters in the Netherlands when we were over there for the Worlds earlier in the year. Got to tour the facility and had a detailed presentation about what they were planning in the future.

The info we received at that time was that, yes there is a new style of transponder and decoder on the way soon, but the existing PTs (original red PTs) will continue to be supported by the new system - they acknowledged that a lot of people out there already had the original transponders and would be a terrible idea if those no longer were compatible!

The "new" system will offer an additional digit (so you can keep the same number for all your cars, but identify each one separately - useful when practising in particular). The current models of PT will be detected, but just won't have this extra function.

So either someone's got the wrong end of the stick here, or MyLaps have significantly changed their strategy in the last 3 months!

I heard that its a hardware upgrade, ie a new decoder unit !
This has been said on a couple forums about the MRT Transponder
will be incompatable with future decoders.

But I was unaware that the older AMB Transponder's would be affected !

that's going to upset a lot of MRT PT users worldwide not just in the UK if that's the case

I can't imagine that they would do that without upgrading everyone's pt for free to become compatible with the new system, it would either kill my laps or all rc timing gear

Sounds like i got the AMB part of it wrong then :) sorry.

I'm not sure either way chap !!
But MRT and MyLaps are two different companies, MyLaps being the one putting all the time, money and resource's into making the system
MRT cashed in !
The age old saying comes to mind !
Buy cheap - Buy twice

This was discussed at the brca agm today.
The issue is if someone buys the new transponder percy it will only work with rc4 the new decoder.
The new decoder will not pick up all the mrt signal and they will miss laps.
In short the new system is much better but you will need harry or percy transponders to use it.
So if anyone has an older transponder they will need to upgrade.
The new system is much better all rc3 decoders get a free upgrade.
The problem for clubs is when to move over to rc4!
We have major issues with mrt and number clashes in 1/8 off road this will be removed.
The new percy transponder can be supplied as a cone the computer will have a model reference agains this clone to stop 2 cars being used.
Clubs will have to decide what route to follow.
Jim

I doubt the new system will be deliberately incompatible with MRT transponders, but at the same time it wouldn't surprise me if it was accidentally incompatible.
By that I mean that when doing backwards compatibility tests Mylaps never actually tried with an MRT transponder to see if it works or not. However, since they are functionally identical to the old AMB's as far as the loop/decoder goes I can't see how that can happen.

What sounds more likely is that with the new numbering system Mylaps will need a better track of who owns which numbers (so you can have xxxxxxx1 in one car and xxxxxxx2 in another) and maybe make a big central database. All those MRT's floating around with non-original numbers might cause some issues there as you'll get several people (worldwide) with the same 'unique' number.

Giving the whole world free transponders !
That would bust the company in a nano second, not gonna happen !

As with most things in the world, if you want to stay upto date you are expected to purchase the new equipment !!

But as I understand it, AMB/MyLaps Transponders will be supported with no issues

But not sure if MRT will be !

I hope your correct . I have 1 Harry,2 AMB and an MRT, I don't mind changing 1 of them but not 3, it will be the end othe hobby for me.

Some clarification would be good if possible. I have three MRT PT's. never had any trouble or issue with any of them nor any clashed numbers. If it ain't broke don't fix it comes to mind. Hate to jump to conclusions but this does read as another unnecessary money spinner upon first impressions. :thumbdown:

I hope I'm wrong.

hmm, so as I see it, harrys are good, the new percys are good ,MRT's are for the bin.

Thing that needs to be really clear when an announcement is made is are the original three lug PT's (pre harrys) not going to work?
Nice move if it will not as we bought a load with our club system,back then they were 40 quid a go I still run 2 in the kids cars, just remind me how much is the new one I need to buy:mad:

But if I buy a new percy it's not going to work at any of my local clubs.....

A look back in time..
 

So when Harry's were first introduced / announced, this was some of the key information povided: - http://www.bbkrclive.com/2010/Offroa.../RC4System.pdf

It covers most of what is being proposed. (Ommiting any backwards compatabillity issues)

RC4 firmware is a free upgrade of Firmware on RC3 decoders - or atleast that is how our RC3 decoder was sold to us. (See attached image - Decoder Upgrade Info taken from BBK site).

In contrast to this, the MyLaps site would have you believe it's not free.. (See attached image - MyLaps Upgrade). I think this may be a version related issue.

I'm suprised to read there is a new PT (Percy) offering the same features promissed with the Harry, but which haven't come to fruition after such a long time.

Hopefully Rob at BBK will provide all the facts and put us all straight. (or light the blue touch paper) :woot:

Certainly as a club, it is imperative that we fully understand the implications of carrying out the upgrade prior to doing so.

if this is so that the MRT wont work on the RC4 decoder and the older amb's might thats an awful lot to change.
it also will kill the 2nd had price of an MRT, might be ok selling at a club that wont be upgrading the decoder, but on forums it will be worthless really:mad:

iv had the same mtr in my cars for three years and it has not missed a lap anywhere, even at herts where we get told there maybe an issue each time we go there

Whenever there has been a PT issue or number clash at TORCH it's been MRT so I no longer recommend them. I ditched all my MRTs for 2 x Harry's

We are still using RC2 with no issues.


I'm more interested in software compatibility and what software the BRCA will be using. Bbkrc, my laps, fab count or other?

Don’t forget this is a massive step up in the technology the dilemma is what way to go straight to rc4 or run rc4 from 2014 (not supporting Percy transponders till then).
Shame the old and new won't run together.
Jim

Certainly sounds interesting, will check out my laps site later.

Embracing tech - I like that :)

well my mrt pts are a clone of the original amb pt i owned and when the wire broke they only told me to buy new and not even offered a reapair, my mrt have my number so no class and the mrt give out the same signal that my old amb did, there is no way of identifying between the two. so to me if mrt wont work, niether will the old amb big ones....
so your screwed either way, buy a new 4 and it wont work at clubs running older systems, have a pt for older systems and it may not count on newer software.

:oWell Well what a suprises to hear this at the AGM no NOT REALLY

If you sit and think about it here we are as normal drivers struggling to keep attending meetings and support the clubs .At this time alone 2 clubs have closed down this summer in the Midlands area is this surely not just going to close more clubs down as drivers will not be able to afford to change there personal transponders.

Even more so if they own more than 1 but hey ho as long as BBK and BRCA are getting there money from people do they really give a shi* about us the most IMPORTANT people the racers and also the clubs obviousley not as this would have not been discussed and being introduced.Typical BRCA i scratch your arse if you will scratch mine;

Sorry if it sounds a bit harsh but there you have it

Thinking along the same lines as the racers?

Do they have to find extra money for swapping over p/t;s?

Are they actually bothered at all ?

Do they give a shi* ?

Ask yourselves these questions as at the end of the day by 2013 there will be alot more racers giving up this hobby/sport and a few more clubs closing down can;t they see this or do they choose not to

Oh yeh i forgot as long they have the money keep flowing into there silver pot they all seem very happy to go and spend on ridiculous stuff like a website that is not what you call great spend days searching and you may find what your looking for.

I am sure by keeping the old p/ts and system would this not be more beneficial not only for al lthe racers but clubs to

Just my 2 pennies worth

Well good luck to whoever gives the go ahead for this diabolical decision, I can imagine it causing the biggest uproar rc racing has ever had. As mentioned above, it WILL close down already dying clubs, and it WILL cause racers to call it a day.

The BRCA should think very strongly before acting on this.

The more you think about it, the bigger the arse pain it is, yes our club just doesn't do the upgrade and continue as we are, but then the club up the road does and our pt's won't work?? Will regionals and national hosting clubs be made to upgrade??

Good luck with it BRCA

Surely that means that if it is a software update then all hand out transponders will become defunct?

My reading of this is that hand-outs won't work either. Really can't see how MRT's won't but they will. Add to that the fact some clubs actually use MRT's as handouts and there is a clear problem.

Mylaps don't actually like handouts (they stopped making them a long time back and don't support them) but any club that has them will tell you how useful they are, especially for new members.

That means I can't see many clubs clamoring for RC4's right now - unless this new Percy PT is really cheap and can be bought in bulk it is not in their interests. Mylaps are sort of admitting this themselves between the lines with the whole 'free upgrade' bit - you never offer that sort of thing unless you need to coax people into changing.

For nationals I can see the advantage, so them going RC4 does make sense. If you are paying for nats anyway the cost of a new transponder is a drop in the ocean. But then your shiny new PT won't work at a club meet because they haven't upgraded......

Why would clubs spend money on upgrading timing hardware/software so the majority of their customers cannot race?!

I think too many people are reading into this the wrong way and rumour is getting people flustered for no reason.

Just because a new timing system has been developed doesn't mean it has to be used.

We are not going to have to rush out to replace our p/t's because existing systems will suddenly stop working overnight... maybe it means that AMB are only developing a newer system for r/c and older systems will not be supported in the long term future.

You have to remember that AMB make timing equipment for the majority of full size motorsport and the r/c industry is tiny in comparison so won't be any priority for them, new developments will always be happening to improve 1:1 timing equipment as that is where the real money is.

This has nothing to do with BBK, they just make software.

Mr Christopher only asked for some clarification on the discussions not to bring doom that r/c racing will have any uproar!

Ok I have spoken to bbk software and have it from the horses mouth :-)

The currant rc4 update which was due be done when the Harry pt's came out was put on hold due to issues with the F1 timing systems and kers.

Amb have had to filter out magnetic interference caused by the kers system.

This filtering has been added to the rc4 update which will make the Harry pt's about 2.5times more accurate.

The issue with the mrt transponders is becouse when they were made they must be not a perfect clone becouse the rc4 software is filtering out them and causing missed laps at about a rate of 25%

As far as I am aware all rc3 pt's will work perfectly on rc4 and this will inc red hand out transponders.

If anyone needs further info bbk software are more than willing to discuse what's going on as I found our today.

:)

what it would be nice to see is a system that does the following

Receives signal from original 3 lug PT
Receives signal from harrys
Receives signal from percy
And receives signal from a reasonably priced hand out transponder,that charges in a rack,this would really help on a club level as it's quite hard to tell a new member with ansmann etc ready to run that they will need to spend a fortune (close to the price of their car)on a little red box to race!.For the club that I'm involved with this is one of the reasons we as yet have not bought AMB.

I can understand that they would want to stop MRT's working,I'm surprised it's taken them this long to make it so. I'm not saying it's good at all, but I can understand it.

If the MRT PT is going to miss laps on RC4 maybe MRT will come up with a solution and offer it as an update to their current customers at a small cost

This is the most obvious answer. MRT will just update to run with it. They are not daft and is the norm when it comes to upgraded like this in the IT industry. Whether its update your existing hardware or have to buy new is the only real question .....

Ok I have just spoken to mrt and they have said once the new rc4 system is publicly avalible and if there is issue they will just tweak what ever is needed.

And you will prob just have send back your pt to be reprogrammed :-)

They are aware that there maybe an issue now.

real hornets nest this one :woot:

i race mainly at my local club i have invested in 4 AMB's (early ones) no harrys or MRT and my local club moved from AMB 20 to AmB Rc a few year ago not sure which version and we still have handouts (slowly failing we have sent some to a guy in Oz we kindly re batteried them for us )

they are vital for our novice drivers as mentioned previously

we would be in a right mess if we moved on you may as well throw it away as nobody i know has a Harry yet at our club (i may be wrong) never mind percys

not sure what the BRCA will do, i certainly cant see our club changing and as stated only the nationals boys may change but they will still need old style ambs to compete if clubs like ours havent changed

fid

I don't remember there being any problem between the RC2 to the RC3 upgrade with backwards compatibility. I reckon it will be exactly the same when the new RC4 units come out. The only time you couldn't use old handout transponders was when they went from Analogue to digital, but you could trade in against the the new system and get a good discount.

I seemed to remember that the Harrys when they first came out were supposed to have this extra digit but it never materialised. I reckon that these new transponders will have a number similar to what we have now but then a 1 on the end, then your second copy will have a two on the end, etc, etc. Now I am assuming that if you used a Percy on an RC3 it would ignore the digit on the end and just pick up the original 7 digits. So assuming that you are not trying to run two cars in the same race at the same time then you wouldn't notice any difference.

I've read through this I have wondered if there has actually been any 'official' reply or release on exactly is happening at this time ?

Right now it is speculation, understandable as many don't want to have to upgrade as it is more cost that to be fair shouldnt be a concideration.

Lets await an official reply, post or new clip about this. If it sways to the RC4 being incompatible backwards to the older bugs then yes I think there needs to be a high level to low level discussion across the country. This is not something that can simply be decided between a small group of people, and in fact a national vote should be brought in.

However, looking at this objectivley is there any way that MyLaps et al would do something where previous bugs cant be used ? It would be like signing their death warant and happily galivanting in the street awaiting the coming bullets.

It's about time MRT came out with their own decoder and race software, that would be great. :D

This post really takes the pi55

The BRCA has NOTHING What so ever to do with My Laps.

All I notice is people who give a kicking to the other racers who get off their backside and attended the AGM to help their other racers continue to do so

And then they wonder why there's less and less people willing to volunteer when people post drivel like this

You should be absolutly ashamed of yourself - A total disgrace

Get off your backside and FIND OUT HOW YOUR HOBBY WORKS!