Vintage pricing!
 

I have a couple of vintage cars that I'd like to rebuild. 1 Kyosho and 1 Tamiya.

After looking on eBay etc I am disgusted with the prices that some people are wanting for parts. There is even empty boxes going for over £100!

Tamiya sellers seem to be biggest culprits. Am I being unreasonable or are vintage cars at an all time (ridiculous) high?

Regards

Dave

Well guess its dependent on the cars..what do you have Dave ?

But you are right in some cases. Look at ow much some of the yz10s go for!

I have a Tamiya Astute that I'd like to rebuild and a Kyosho Optima Mid LWB that I've started doing.

Just some crazy prices. I can understand the YZ-10's going for big bucks as its an iconic proven racer but some of the Tamiya crap like Hotshots and Boomerangs etc are going for silly money too.

I think it's just gone beyond ridiculous what people are expecting to get for them now.

They're worth whatever people are prepared to pay.

Dave here's mine :) new build

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...908_203752.jpg

Like houses.

When it comes to old Tamiyas - they cost what people tell you they cost.

Ebay is full of NIB cars with £1k price tags that are relisted and relisted - remember its free if it didn't sell. Most people don't want to pay that money, its only a few well heeled collectors that will, and stuff tends to sit and wait until one of them buys it.

Actually this is pretty standard for all nostalgia items when you think about it.

Need to stop showing off...though Ive seen that car somewhere.

Reminds me of the dyna storm...the best 2wd ever!!

Dan thats a Super Astute......no i mean, that Astute....really IS super lol.
I love that car, sooooo much sexier in white.

lee

I don't mind them selling when they're on auction but I hate it when it's on a ridiculous Buy It Now price. The prices just screw up other people who are genuinely trying to rebuild cars.

Welcome to the age of "whats this worth mister"..........nowadays, everybody is David Dickinson.
Ive seen some PILES, that folk will warrant putting a huge sum on.......its all a bit silly really.

lee

It surprises me how much some cars go for. I bought 2 YZ10s off Ebay about 7 years ago and they cost me about £65 and one had all working radio gear - I wasn't using them so sold them for probably about the same - DOH!

It might (might) be worth buying the parts seperate and building the car with all new parts. I'm thinking of doing this with a Top Force but buy a few bits a month to make the process last. I bought a knackered Optima for £35 and when I'd finished the only things from the original car are the front and rear bulkheads. I also built an Egress from a Tamiya Vajra and other bits and bobs.

Vintage Cats are becoming expensive too. Knackered Bosscats are getting over £100. I think unless you get a bargain or bid on a badly worded auction title then the market for some cars has gone too high.

The price of Vintage Tamiyas (and all the parts) is strange... The most collectible cars are the most popular ones (Sand Scorcher etc) or the elusive ones (Avante etc) from back in the day. They are worth big bucks until.... Bang! Re-Release! These re-releases are pretty random, too: Who knows, the Astute might be next!

And then if you look at the less popular or successful cars... they hardly bring any money at all - though often spares prices are still pretty high, somehow it seems Tamiya collectors have a NIB and new built fetish :lol:

If you intend to run the Astute, I suggest you get a donor car for spares and replace the press nuts with nyloc hex nuts (with the nyloc portion in the emboss for the press nut, it worked quite well on my Dyna Storm runner). Also, if you need spares, please let me know. I've already modeled improved 3D printable rear suspension blocks for it, and if there's interest for them I might do more parts.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...DrawingPNG.png

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...0Overige/1.png

Building from parts, not a bad idea at all. I had the same with an Optima im working on now, think i paid £80, and due to a nasty OCD, NOTHING on the car apart from the servo saver is original used, its all from a NIP part, costly habit lol.

lee

Remember that we are potentially ruining the market for our selfs when we show off our own cars that we are proud of. That may open up interest for more people and more people could lead to higher prices in future auctions. ;)

But... it is also nice to see more projects after all.

As Groomi wrote: "They're worth whatever people are prepared to pay."

Jopp is right to a certain degree, i wouldnt have built my Optima, if it wasnt for the ones id seen around on the boards.
My YZ10 was something id wanted to do for a while having raced one, and i was endeared to it........but i picked a terrible time to do it lol, go back a few years, id have saved a fortune.

lee

Having been around for the best part of 10 years (in vintage) I have bought, sold and watched alot go on throughout eBay and r/c forums.

I can honestly say that prices have come down a long way (especialy much of the Tamiya models) due to a few factors.

1. The world economy is hurting. People have lost money in shares and investments, super annuation, property values have dropped, employment is not what it used to be and a pile of other factors have shown us all that we don't quite have the same amount of 'spending' we used to have. Coupled with the fact that much of this 'vintage stuff' is really only purchased by us older guys (and gals) either for ourselves or our children I think it's fair to say that this market will probably die with us. The younger generation weren't around to be influenced by this stuff the way we did back in the 80's and 90's. Today it's a different world.

2. With Tamiya re-releasing so many of it's models I think it's fair to say that this is filling the appetites of both the collectors and the enthusiasts who wish to enjoy them for what they are. Sure, there will always be those die hard's that want original release but they no longer have to compete with the guys who just want to have fun with these cars but are restrained by tight budgets. A few years ago 'everyone' had to bid on an auction but now days the same number of would-be buyers aren't trying to win these auctions. Prices have come down dramaticaly on much of what is out there.

3. We are spoiled for choice. With Tamiya re-releasing so many old favourites people no longer need to spend big dollars just to get into the market/scene. This effects what goes on with other manufacturers models to an extent also. I have seen many newcomers purchase a Tamiya rere simply because it was affordable. It may not have been their first choice but when push comes to shove and there's only so much in that persons budget- well I think you see my point.

4. We are all getting older. For many of us it means we are finding ourselves partners/wives, starting families and all of a sudden we drop an income, have other expenses that take priority over toy cars and we just aren't spending the same kind of money on this stuff we used to. I know this won't mean everybody but I have seen many friends in vintage r/c slip away due to this reason. Personaly my wife and I just had another son and we simply can't afford to spend good money on my hobby in the same fashion I used to. I am certain this also has an effect on the vintage r/c market. I'm not spending (and neither are many of my friends) the way we used to.

It seems to me that there will always be sellers that come along late in the game and think anything and everything they have is worth a fortune. I simply put it down to lack of education so it's up to the buyers to ultimately school these sellers on what true market value is. Anyone can stick an inflated price on a given item but if a buyer isn't there to pay that price then it is no more than a number.

For me, I still check out ebay and r/c for sale boards and I am finding most items to be selling at a low.

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places...but I think that despite some people placing inflated prices on vintage r/c, it's still an expensive game seeking kits and parts that are not made anymore. Just look at the Kyosho stuff for example...Moreover, people end up trying to make repro bits and pieces which is another costly aspect.

Most of the time I look on forums where many people "know their stuff". This leads to higher prices overall....eBay ends up the same way I think...I can't find many places where people are selling vintage for peanuts. With the internet you can easily find out the ID of a car and then price it appropriately (or inappropriately :D)

my first ever 'proper' race-ready RC car, christmas 1992.

I still have it in bits, and 2 years ago I bought a new gearbox unit from a seller in japan. never got it running though; the second time I resurrected it and tried to take it racing, the gearbox internals lunched themselves - and that was with a very mild motor fitted. this does inspire me to get it back together though :thumbsup:

To answer your question, I would say you are being unreasonable.:lol:

The vintage market is nowhere near as big as it used to be and in general prices have come down a lot compared with ten years ago. But back then there was a chance you could walk into your local hobby shop and find vintage parts to resell or go towards your rebuild, and there was plenty of loft clearance cars being put on ebay. People used to find parts in hobby shops and ebay them which meant there was always plenty of parts available, now the big sellers do tours of the country buying up old stock, and old shops are shutting with the spares they have left over being thrown away. It doesn't help that ebay are trying to put people off selling on there by charging a lot more than they used to.

Prices reflect supply and demand, for example vintage-kyosho sells Kyoshos Equalizer shocks at £20 a pair, while he has managed to sell out of
gold shocks at £50 a pair. There was obviously enough buyers out there prepared to pay £50 a pair for Kyosho golds even though most of us wouldn't. Another thing to remember, for vintage-kyosho/vintageavante/tamkyo-reprodecals and Europro975/Tonys Tamiya Parts selling parts on ebay is a full time job and their main source of income, if they overprice parts then they don't earn a living. If something you want is expensive from the big sellers it is because there is a demand for them and the sellers don't have many left, and we are talking about a limited supply of parts left in the world.

If you want a part and the big sellers are expensive, then do what everyone else does and wait for the parts to turn up at a reasonable price, or think laterally. For example I wanted a set of gold shocks for an Optima, so bought a Mid with a battered chassis for half the price of second hand shocks on their own. At least with Tamiya and Kyosho there is a good chance the parts will appear, my Predator rebuild took me 5 years to be counted as finished and I'm still waiting for some more original parts to appear.

And to think I sold my Optima Mid Custom for £25 about ten years ago:blush:.

Then in 2007 there was a Procat for sale on E-Bay with a BIN of £35.
No one even bothered with it,

Listen, I'm not really having a go at people who have shops. I'm more concerned about the EBay lot who are so greedy with prices. I don't mind them having an auction but it's the BIN prices that really grate me.

There is even someone wanting £120 for an empty box for God sake! Get a grip.

If someone wants to ask for £120 for a box then that is down to them, no one is forcing you to buy it. If it is the right model and in perfect condition then a few years ago it would have been snapped up at that price. Perfect condition boxes are the rarest part of any kit, after all the box is usually thrown away or used for storage. The prices have come down a long way from the heyday of vintage collecting, even though there were a lot more parts around 10 years ago because there was an even greater demand back then than there is today the prices were much higher back then.

At least 75-80% of NIP vintage parts being sold on ebay are sold by a small number of people who make a living from it, and the parts are priced accordingly to buyers demand and what they have sold for in the past. Tamiya parts are the worst, purely because vintage Tamiya fans greatly outnumber many times all the other makes put together.

If you really want to see a silly price, a new in box Tamiya Black Porsche in almost perfect condition is valued at around £5000. Yes, £5000. This price isn't plucked from thin air, this is the price that they have been sold for in the past. Now you might find this frightening, but here are a couple of pictures of a small sample of the collections of a couple of people who have paid that much.

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1122790,00.jpg
http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1122788,00.jpg
This collector has just bought 20 new car and buggy kits, including a couple of 1/5th scales, plus a whole load of vintage NIBs as well just this past month.

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_m...94495&id=22062
http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_m...3182&sid=22062
Yes, the car is real.

If you want to deal with the top end of the vintage market, then these are the people you are competing against. This why the rarest parts fetch huge sums of money.

In my case, I wanted a new body for an AYK Radiant but was having to bid against someone on ebay who was whatever price for everything AYK thanks to his business having being bought from him for $4 million. The bodies were selling for £100-150 because they are very rare and he could afford them, but I kept on looking. It took around 3 years, but either he missed it or had stopped buying, but I picked up a new body from ebay for £15.

Another example, for some reason JR-RC in Japan got hold of a huge stock of original Blitzer Beetle chrome parts, the same as used on the Sand Scorcher. He put them on ebay Japan in batches, about 50 at a time, and those of us in the know jumped on them and bought them at around £8 a set. Unfortunately the big ebay sellers got hold of them, buying 30,40,50 of them at a time so taking them off the market. Each batch took no more than a couple of hours to sell out. When the parts got to the UK, they relisted them for around £30 a set, because that is what people who desperately wanted them at any cost were prepared to pay for them. When people stopped buying them at £30 not surprisingly the price went down, and kept on going down as people stopped buying them. For those prepared to wait long enough, they ended up cheaper than if they had bought from the original seller in Japan.

At the other end of the scale, Tomy parts are supposed to be rarer than hens teeth and cost a fortune. I bought loads of Tomy buggy spares from a hobby shop clearance for £45, about 4 sets of suspension parts, gearbox cases, pulleys, wheels. I didn't want them, I though they would go towards paying for something I did want. Ebayed the lot of them last year when I needed the cash, and made a loss on the deal. The nip Tomy Intruder wheels sold for £10. I could have started them at higher prices, but having the cash was more important to me than holding out for more money.

If your problem is that you want to 'restore' using all new parts and you want to rebuild it now and aren't prepared to wait then the prices you pay will be at a premium. The real problem is that you are dealing with a limited quantity of parts left in the world and you have to compete with everyone else. If you don't want to pay silly prices, and I also think a lot of the prices are ridiculous, you have to work at it.

In my case, currently I'm trying to rebuild a CAT 2000. Can't afford to just go out and buy new bits, and certainly can't afford to just buy new carbon parts from Fibre-Lyte like a lot of people do. Bought a load of new parts cheap when Roundabout Toys shut down, including extras I have sold on to help fund the rest of the rebuild. New top decks seem to go for £30-50 on ebay, but searching through ebay I found a job lot of unknown Schumacher parts, including the top deck I wanted. Bought the whole lot for £8, and likely to end up with a free top deck and money left over when I get the other parts sold on.

If you want to rebuild them as new, and you don't want to spend a fortune like some people do, then you have to be prepared to wait and reasonable prices do appear. Also, don't just watch ebay and expect bargains to pop up, some of my best deals have come through people knowing I collect vintage and contacting me.
I bought brand new Lazer ZX-R, Procat and Mid cars for £25 each from someone's loft clearance, and cars picked up from car boot sales, cleaned up and sold on ebay to raise funds for others. Spent £600 on another loft clearance of 12 cars and spares, ebayed 4 of them and got my money back and still have 8 cars. A Cougar 2 wreck bought at a car boot for £10 with radio, cleaned up with spares I had, a tidier body picked up for another £8, ebayed for £60 to help fund my other car rebuilds. If you want to do it on the cheap you can, you just have to be more patient.

I sold an empty Sand Scorcher cardboard box to a German bidder for £150. That was an 99p auction sale too. Before the re release was announced.

Sand Scorchers NIB were going for around £3500 at the time.

Supply and demand as Terry says.

Those links nearly made my eyes pop out Terry! :drool:

I think you should all leave disco alone he is just a tight Scotsman having a moan :lol: