1/8th Electric - is it the future?
 

So after seeing the little review of the Proline weekend, how much do you think the 1/8th Electric class will grow?

If it grew to current 1/8th nitro or 1/10th off road I'd be very interested. I don't have the time or experience to tune engines, clutches and so forth.

If it was to grow I'd be the first to say "what could we achieve at TORCH".

Is it just another "dumb truck" class in the UK and will remain confinded to the USA?

Given say £1200 as an example figure, would I spend it on a nitro setup - no. Would I for a 1/8th electric, yes. That's just me and I'm not knocking anyones chosen class of racing, whether it's Mardave to 1/5th scale etc.

Thoughts?

yes yes yes yes i think we will be going this way i run nitro and 1/10th electric my feeling is that nitro is fiddley but the cars are tough 1/10th is great i love But i think the power is to much for the cars and they havent got any tougher to cope.......there for 1/8th electric perfect compremise

I don't live in the UK, but I must admit when I saw the DNX408 I first saw something in 1/8th scale buggies. When the DEX408 came out I thought 'I gotta get me one of these!' :lol:

But... The RC world is pretty small here in the Netherlands. So there's probably almost no-one driving 1/8th electric, at least not enough to make a proper racing class. With that problem, it's simple, I don't buy one, because I'm not going to bash with a car like that!

Plus, I'm now settled in the 1/10 scene, and I don't have the resources to drive a two classes (doing seperate events).

Anyway, to answer your question... I think Nitro is there to stay for a while longer... There are hardcore petrolheads out there that won't stop driving nitro. However, I think slowly but surely the 1/8th class will grow. Eventually probably with a big turning point where they'll suddenly become very popular.

I think it's being slow to catch on in this country for 2 reasons:

Firstly as an island nation we seem to be resistant to trying anything new, and secondly because of the unpredictable weather.

The 1st point can be cured by individuals bearing in mind how the british motorcycle industry treated Honda and Yamaha when they first raced at the Isle of Man in the '60s and what followed:cry:, and as for the weather, just get a waterproof ESC:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOBBYWING-EZ...item3f1552f056

Myself and my HPI Vorza were at a very waterlogged South Coast RC track on Wednesday with this ESC, I ran 3 packs through the car (admittedly after taking the precaution of removing my Savox servo and substituting my El Cheapo TowerPro) making a total of 60 minutes track time aquaplaning accross 1-2 inch puddles etc., and the car never missed a beat. It was literally wringing wet after each run.

When I got home I gave it a wallow in GT85, dried out the bearings (including the exposed front one on the brushless motor) and drove it outside my house the next day and it seems fine.

As i've said before, i'd jump at the chance to race my 1/8th at TORCH. If some people think the track is maybe a little tight for this it must be remembered that in 2004-2005 we used to race 1/8th nitros on the Tiverton outdoor track and that's about half the size of TORCH. Please make this happen!!!

If you started a class at Torch, I would convert one of my old cars for sure !

The selling point in the uk, is that some tracks are being restricted more and more due to the noise from nitros ?

But you still can't beat Rally-x with a nitro engine, the noise, the smell, the pit stops, it all makes the class !

:D

How do 1/8 Electric cars cope with bump up finals? Surely if you were to bump up a few times and run for over an hour almost non stop you would either fry something or run out of charged up batteries? If you lose bump up finals you lose one of the best, and most unique features of 1/8 racing in my opinion. :eh?:

can't see why they can't cool down during the race between your bump up. haven't had a problem doing xmas tree finals with 10th electric.

We're happy to run some 1/8 electric meetings at Towcester if there enough call for it. I don't know much about 1/8 but we've go enough space and a big enough rostrum for it.

You wouldn't fry anything if your car is correctly set-up. The battery issue is more of a problem. Assuming no bump-ups, 1 battery is easily enough for an entire day's racing, but with bump ups, a second battery is required just for that eventuality. With good LiPos and chargers, charge times are as little as 12 minutes, so if needs be, 2 batteries can be used with bump up finals.

I would have thought that running a 20 minute final (or 40 minutes in some cases) would require more than 2 sets of batteries wouldnt it?

If it was possible, I'd love to see this in 1/10th. I understand there is a whole host of issues as to why it couldnt/wouldnt work, but if it could I would love it. :woot:

Before people miss understand I'm not about to rush out and change TORCH, it's more of a general discussion on what peoples thoughts are on 1/8th electric.

Bump up finals are very much a nitro thing. At the recent Proline event at Herts a lot of the 1/8th buggies were suffering from overheating and some could not make the 12min main final duration.
3 legged 10/12 min finals would make the most sense, as it keeps the cost of batteries down and also reduces the chances of killing speedos/motors through overheating.

I love my Losi 8e, didnt cost too much to build up as bought a used Losi 8 and did it all in stages using the losi conversion and buying the electrics etc, using HW stuff from ebay and Turnigy cells and its mentally fast (much much quicker than a nitro) and just plug and play!

Coming from a 10th back ground I find it easier to drive as an E buggy.

I took my one to a round of the SE Regionals at EPR and ran it in truck class for a bit of fun, after people seeing it go on track I heard loads of people in the pits saying 'I got to get me one of those!'

Nath Ralls had a go and loved it! Its like a big stupidly fast 10th Buggy! :woot:

Speaking of which Mark, my JQ is ready, are you still up for some Slough?

I don't think 1/8th electric is the future for 1/10th clubs. We banned them from our club track this year (Chippenham) simply because they were so big, powerful and heavy that they were causing a lot of damage to the track and were a menace to the marshalls. They also work out rather expensive compared to a 10th setup.

Are they the future of 8th? Not sure, you'd have to ask the 8th racers!

That was my thoughts re TORCH, too heavy and cause too much damage. Aren't they heavier than nitro?

So as racing and clubs evolve then maybe.

A couple of years ago (when I was activly racing off road!!) I genuinely thought that 1/8 electric would be popular. However, now i'm not sure.

Becuase the cars are bigger / heavier than 10th, I'm not so sure they suit existing 10th venues all that well. So that puts them into the 8th venues, where I'm not so sure the current drivers really want them. I think a lot of those guys race 8th because they like engines, they like the noise / small, they like long bump up finals etc.

So I think it could end up as a class that kind of sits in the middle and doesn't really work for anyone. I could of couse be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time (by a long shot!)

An 1/8 weighs almost 4kg, what does a 1/10 weigh....? I would guess about 1.5kg??

So they are much bigger and heavier in every sense.

For it to truly work I would think a lot of tracks would require a radical overhaul. Just look at the size of the astro track at Westmill Farm or Nene Valley Raceway. And indoor school sports hall racing would surely be a thing of the past so no more warm cosy winters.... :blush:

Funny you should mention this mikey as we were discussing this some weeks ago trackside at Torch. Speaking to some of the 1/8th guys (i dont have one !) who were from clanfield ??? iirc they said Torch as it currently stood would be small for a 1/8th track and quite dangerous for marshalling. The side netting would need reinforcing, especially at the end of the straight and in field marshalling as it is at the moment would be equally iffy.

As has been said a 4Kg lump flying around at 40mph is ALOT different to a 1.6Kg 1/10th.

I would personally be alittle concerned about the wear and tear on the track, I assume these larger and heavier cars would wear the astro much quicker which would be detrimental to the 1/10th cars. I appreciate this is a very early stage discussion but I would rather the track stayed 1/10th and any effort was put into improving it for them than converting to accomodate 1/8th

Steve this isn't about TORCH, this is about the class and what it's future could be etc.

We had a play with them at Bury a couple of years back. Echoing the comments of others its clear they really don't work well on tracks built for 1/10th cars and are a serious hazard to marshals used to 1/10ths. Likewise current 1/8th clubs might let you run there, but the majority prefer engines.
They do seem to have seriously caught on in the Basher market though, as a good 1/8th electric offers insane amounts of power in a tough, low maintenance, neighbour friendly package. That in itself means that the class has a real future - though where and how I can't say. I suspect the 1/8th nitro boys will see it as a kind of beginner class, learn how to drive first in electric then later learn engine tuning and go nitro....

In that case then it will be fairly limited. With most people already rocking 2wd/4wd and maybe AN Other or multiple cars in the same scale not many will spend what appears to be quite a bit of money on them. Bearing in mind the larger everything required i would imagine most will upgrade their existing kits or electrics etc rather than invest in a whole larger scale.

You will get the already die hard 1/8th nitro/petrol guys who would maybe run an electric as well but again i imagine there wont be many of them either

I run Nitro with my Losi 8EU ( as well as both 2wd TLR22 and 4wd XX4WE/TRF511 ), i love the class to be honest, not raced it for a while now, but as "moffett-mechanic" says the smell, the pit stops and the chance of racing in your final for a chance of a bump up and more finals is what the class is about !

8th Electric is a great, noise and pollution is a benifit for today's clubs with most councils, health and safety boobs getting in and closing great clubs

But 8th Electric is treated like the dumb cousin of 8th Nitro, for people who can't tune engines and as such aren't really welcomed. Somewhat like how Astro Tracks are treated compaired to Dirt Tracks, some 8th Lads won't even consider running their nitro's on Astro !

8th Truggy Class was much the same, it's died really as buggy racers don't like them, even Slough sees them as a Bashers Class, which is a real shame I really liked my Truggy.

10th scale tracks like TORCH ( and this is an example only ) are just to small for 8th, add to that the wooden covered jumps wouldnt last with 4kgs of car hitting them, the surface would get chewed and cut, track markings/fenching would have to be changed to metal chain link type as the current plastic type would have no protection.

I'd convert my Losi 8EU in a blink of an eye if somewhere like TORCH would run the class, Swindon Track is an all Astro Track for 8th and 10th scale and is ideal for both classes, but does suffer from low attendance.

THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK ON NITRO, I SAID I RUN IT TOO ! THERE JUST SEEMS TO BE A STIGMA WITH CERTAIN CLASS AND POWER TYPES

Personally I would love it to be the future. Granted I've not tried nitro yet (depsite having my Agama over a year :yawn: ) but I've attended several meetings, you see the top drivers race fine but the ones that are starting or even have done it for a while get problems with their engines cutting quite often or not keeping a consistent tune. Sure I understand that is part of the skill of nitro and the extra element to it but I've not got a lot of time outside of work to maintain the car, therefore the slightly easier and less maintenance route of an 8th electric would be better for me.

I think it's a shame the 8th nitro racers aren't embracing the technology more. There is always problems with councils not wanting to give up land for our hobby especially if it's noise nitro's. Obviously the 8ths electric's are quieter and if 8th clubs were running both with separate races for nitro and electric ( providing there were enough electrics ) it would lessen the noise for a while, perhaps because of that complaints would lessen.

I don't understand why people are thinking of taking 8th on 10th electric tracks though. There are plenty of 8th off road tracks around, the question is why won't the nitro runners accept the lipo powered buggies more. This is a niche hobby we should try and stick together rather than go against each other.

Damn it :lol: Knight hawk posted while I was typing mine out saying almost the same... :)

No prob chap,

But I glad you share my points

:lol:

I expect you'll find that if enough people wanted to run them most clubs would put on a heat - in my experience not many turn people away if they turn up and want to pay to race! However, most 1/8th drivers race the class because it is nitro - I know I used to - so why would they change to electric when they want to run nitro.

It's an age old debate - nitro vs electric, which is better? My personal view is that each has positives and negatives and different people will prefer different things. Neither is 'better' than the other, just different, and racers will race what they enjoy the most.

Firstly i think the 8th on 10th tracks is a good point, as they're more suited to 8th tracks, PLUS you get to race them on dirt this way, not nasty astro.

Secondly, people that say that they're more expensive than 10th need to look away from the 'pro' kits. HPI currently lead the 8th electric nationals with an RTR Trophy buggy. We have found this year that the RTR's are more than capable of mixing it with the big boys, and beating them. So it's all down to what you want and how much you want to spend. Just as with 10th you can spend a fortune if you wish. Just look at how much a top end 10th costs along with all the electrics and cells to run it. You can run even a semi-pro kit and elecs in E8 for just the same.

Thirdly, pretty much all the national meetings this year have had rain in the finals (almost torrential at westmill!) and everyone coped well, with very little in the way of water related failures, and at westmill we all went out with 'dry' cars as the rain was pretty much unnexpected half way through the final. It's like 10th, do it properly and all will be fine.

The E8 nationals have this year been running alongside the Nitro Truggy nationals. and to be honest it seems to work. The truggy class needs support to make their series worth running and the E8 boys need a platform to run the cars on. There has been a good mix of drivers in their to. Top 10th boys mixing it with top 8th boys (some of whom said they wouldn't touch leccy 8th!) and they came away enjoying it.

I think it have got a future, but not on 10th tracks. They need to be run on tracks big enough for them to reach their limits and 8th track are where its at.

If you're unsure, get one and give it a go next year in the nationals. :)

I think Mikey, some of it comes down to racing snobbery, ie; your "dumb truck" comment. Not that you probably meant anything by that since I doubt you've driven a truggy or any derivative of large wheeled vehicle.

I have though, Monster and truggy, and buggy, in ic and electric, raced and bashed, and from my experience, bashers love trucks AND buggies, racers just love buggies and ic ones at that as they see electric ones as "fake", or a bit of a joke.

Which is a shame really as this is where I might upset a few people. Basically, in some cases, racers have become so blinkered by what they perceive an rc car to be that when a variant or new class comes out, it gets shouted down, slated and left out. People will follow the crowd and if snob club only races buggies then joe blogs isn't going to buy something different as he'll get told by snob club that his truggy/e eighth/sc/stadium truck isn't supported, so "normal" fare is bought and off he goes and follows everyone else.

I bash too, I have an AE mgt truck, it has big wheels, it runs on 6s, and is an absolute hoot.

I would support e eighth, it deserves to grow. Like what has been mentioned previously also, as places get more and more built up, people are not going to want to listen to 14 2 strokes revving up on a start line on a sunday, so they complain, council listens, closes club for noise pollution, the racers bitch and moan, another club gone.
We see it often don't we!

If only we could be more broad minded. The hobby can still grow, there IS room.

Whilst thats a commendable ideal, there is a serious problem with adopting new classes and variants - namely numbers.
I once raced at a now defunct indoor club. On a typical race night might have heats for 1/12th, Recoils, TC's, Buggys and Micros. 5 heats, but in practice most only had 3-4 cars so thats actually only about 20 racers or 2 heats if they all ran the same class. And with so few drivers in a class there wasn't much competition, so numbers dropped further and the club closed.
There simply aren't enough numbers to support every possible niche - in fact there aren't really enough to fully support the mainstream! Its well known that 1/10th offroad and TC compete for drivers - a surge in popularity for TC results in a drop in OR numbers and vice versa.

The 1/8th world takes this very literally - one class, one engine size, one body style etc. But it makes the class one of the strongest and most enduring worldwide, because its not constantly being diluted by niche classes.

L, I agree with you totally but another aspect of this has occurred to me. I used to run nitro a few years ago and loved it but gave up racing for other reasons.

My one enduring memory of that time is, running at the (dusty) Clanfield track when it first opened, I always used to take a bag of pre-oiled air filter elements with me as the dust used to clog them and affect the throttle response after about 7 minutes runtime. At the time I was the only person to do this and everyone else just used to struggle on twiddling the mixture screws and changing plugs etc. all day to no avail.

On getting back into the hobby 12 months ago I decided to go brushless as I didn't want all that hassle, in the past I had been unwilling (or didn't have the time due to looking after an engine constantly) to attempt setup changes and wanted to develop this aspect of my racing.

I think having a maintenence-free BL system has made me a better racer because I now throw more time at making setup changes and trying to improve the car rather than just maintaining it.

Having been a motorcycle mechanic and grown up with 2-strokes I don't want to see them go but what with A) more and more people complaining about noise and B) the relative ease of operation of a 1/8th electric I can't help but think this is the future of the hobby.

At Southcoast RC Car Club (SCRCCC) we run a 1/10 & 1/8 class Off Road and you can run whatever you have i.e.:- Nitro or Brushless in the same race.

Most of our guys are running electric, when we started all were Nitro but as the years have moved on so have we and now 65% are Brushless and doing well, at the start there was a lot of discussions and a lot of reading - what motor, ESC & battery etc.

We now have a lot of knowledge between us about what works and what doesn't.

If you want to come down and have a chat, watch a race or indeed join in please do so, we are a friendly bunch who enjoy what we do, yes we race but we are not fanatics, it's for fun and we love it.

If you are one for rules i.e.:- you can only have this size motor or that size wheel then SCRCCC may not be for you, our rule is if it's a 1/10 then you run in the 1/10 class and if it's 1/8 then you run in the 1/8 class.

Don't get me wrong as a club we have to have rules and we do but not to the detriment of using your RC Car and having fun doing it.

If you have a 1/10 or 1/8 anything put it on our track and have fun with it.

Best post in this thread fella :)

Now that i agree with !

Clubs for fun
Nationals are for rules

Many Thanks
 

Many thanks for replies, we at SCRCCC feel that some clubs have too many rules and have removed the fun element; we meet up on a Sunday for 5 to 6 hrs to escape and have fun with like minded people.

Admitted we do have a few members that are defiantly 'tuned to the moon' most members would say I was one of them but we have a good laugh, by the way I'm running 1st in the 1/10 and 3rd in the 1/8 for this Summer Season, both of mine are brushless and I was a nitro driver for 25 years.

One event we have during our Fun Day is car football, try doing that with a nitro

Si Coe, I see your point there. When Torch moved to where it is y2k, we were suffering the effects of the opening of Burselden TC club at the Plough, as everyone left buggies and went TC racing. We spent the next 9 years with a half dozen turning up. What I was saying is that in general, anything new or different IS looked down on, due to snobbery, but maybe that's another debate for another day.

Hotshot 3, who are you then? I started doing clanfield a little while after it opened, when I had time on a wednesday night that is :lol:.

I still think there is room, chuck 'em in with the nitros and give them points of their own. I know that again is a sore subject as a lot of 1/8th drivers will liken that to having to have the unpopular class nerd in their team during PE, and then they kick up a squinny with the whole "they dont have to pit" thing. should that matter if they're in a race of their own?

Take British Superbikes a few years ago, there was a grid of bikes. Teh ones with white number boards on were official teams and the like, yellow number boarded bikes were also on the grid, but they were privateers and were in their own little championship. It's only changed because a lot of meddling from Palmer and Higgs, but again, another story for another day.

Basically, we forget that RC is fun, and with everything else in this world, there will be prejudice. There are ways round the numbers, it just takes a bit of agreement and encouragement.

I guess time will tell.

L, my name is Alex, I helped build the track in 2005 and at the time had a Mugen MBX4 which ended up being sold shortly afterwards to fund a trip to Europe amongst other things.

Who are you?

I'll be there tommorrow racing the Vorza in the SRS electric class so if you're about come and say hi.

Hi Alex, I dont think I've met you. Perhaps you left before I got round to meeting others or even attending. I did a few wednesday nights and found the ladder up the rostrum a bit heath robinson :lol:

I also think that one of the things that put people off is the the thought of having to go and buy new stuff.
And there seems to be a mentality that you need to go out and buy mega bucks electrics to be competetive if you're thrown in with the nitro lads. But you don't.
Look at what you would spend on a nitro buggy to be competetive and you would probably only spend the same to get up and running with electric, possibly less.

This year I've been on a budget for the E8 Nats I run a Vorza Flux RTR (I chose this one due to the parts being interchangable with the D8 that I run). Ok this is the more expensive of HPI's RTR's at £654rrp but it has all you need other than the cells which cost me £90 for 2 5000mah 4s Lipo. But the car leading the E8 Nationals at the moment is the Trophy which is £409rrp and once again it comes with everything other than cells at a price that is less than most 'pro' E8 kits alone.

When it first kicked off, you probably did have buy expensive speedo and motor combo's that were more than what the RTR's cost, but now there are plenty of ESC's out there for about £90 that are more than capable of doing the job, with combos at less than £150. A pack of LiPos can be bought for around £45 for the 5000mah which are more than enough for doing the National spec 15min finals. Ok if you run with the nitro lads you will have to spend more to last the 20mins+ finals.

But the main thing I found an advantage about the E8 is the fact that I can turn up and race....on my own, without the need for pitmen. Doing the nitro nationals this year has been a pain in the bum, having to run around to get someone willing to stand around for 15-20mins, when they could be working on their own car. But the E8 Nats have been great because I can just turn up and race without having to worry anyone else.

The pricing thing is the same whenever a new class kicks off, everyone thinks they have to buy the best equipment to compete. But a year into the class and everyone realises that you don't need to buy all those megabuck items and things do get cheaper.

I don't understand the mentality of the nitro guys that say "You'll never catch me running Electric 8th! They're not proper cars!". For a start, they're the same cars, just different running gear and if they keep a scale of racing alive when there are more and more clubs being closed down due to noise polution then who cares as long as we can all go and race?
The best thing is, some of those people that have tried it have really enjoyed it and can see it as a way of getting practice in quietly rather than causing any noisy problems with the local residents. AND they said they will be back for more racing with them.

I was one of the founders of the 1/8th electric offroad class here in Denmark. We're about 3/4 way through our 2nd season and we just had 20 cars at the recently held nationals (together with the nitro nationals, but seperate classes). If we can do it with about a 1/10 of the population you have in GB, it surely would be possible for you guys aswell. Getting the BRCA in on the idea would help tremendously.