Control/No control
 

This thread may prove a bit controversial but i just want to get peoples opinions and pro`s and cons to either side of the debate,

So here goes, for our national series (regionals can do as they wish anyway) how would you like to see the tyre ruling go. Would you like to be able to use any tyre from BB schuey and GRP or limited to two as it is now. I understand you cant please all the people all the time and you will always have people saying "X" tyre would of been better.

I personally dont mind, i like the idea of a control tyre im all for it in fact as it does keep costs down and racing close and you dont need lots of boxes of tyres for 1 meeting.

(i dont really want to turn this into a quality/compound thread, im sure you know what i mean);)

Definitely keep control tires in my opinion.

My previous idea that I posted in another thread was:

Each distributor/manufacturer can nominate one/two tread patterns, in as many compounds as they like, but the tread pattern name (or part number) and a compound marking must be moulded into the tire wall.

I don't how hard it would be to do this, but I *think* it has been used in touring cars before. IF made a rule the companies would have 5 months notice to sort it.

Each nominated tire could then be used at any national. We would probably get 4 tires, each in two compounds (2x BB, 1x Schumacher, 1x GRP). The drivers can then use whichever ones they want.

It's not a perfect idea, but it is something.

Two SETS of tyres ALL DAY, and an extra for the A mainers.... :D

G

Im all for control tyres if they are consistant from the manufacturer....also limiting the amount that can be used will be a massive help for most racers.

That would be nice Graham, but we need away to successfully implement it given the time we have, any ideas? :confused:

I had thought of that G, didnt want to say it in the first post though.

Keeps it simple, we might even see schuey blues make a return :confused:

i've always liked the thought of that idea, but wouldn't it be hard to police? (or at least cause more work for the officials). That aside, i'd be really up for it, cheaper cheaper cheaper!!

if there was no control tyre, i'd probably have to race less to afford all the tyres i need. plus there'd be more excuses as to why you had a crap day :p

In onroad they mark the tyres in round 1 and then mark that you have used one set on the scruitineering sheet, then when you arrive with a new set in rd 3 for instance it is marked again so it is easy to see if you have used more than 2 sets.

You will probably get people missing out rounds though to save tyres:thumbdown:

The biggest problem with limiting sets during the meeting is someone has to check them every run and log how many sets someone has used, it will add to scrutineering times.

That used to be done - tyres were marked with nailvarnish across the glueing and your brca number on the wheels........

My personal view is that "as is" works quite well. Although i'll be honest and say that i would prefer a limit on the number of sets.

You talk to people that race other classes and they can't believe that we allow unlimited tyres. So, you need one of 2 things in an ideal world (in my view), either a situation where new tyres are of no benefit (unlikely to be possible due to the very nature of cars and the power they have) or a limit - which many people are against.

So, no idea what the answer is!!!

In thoery i've always liked the idea of one type of tyre and compound for everyone..

Be plenty of grumbling about this though i'd imagine..

On checking - it is a fair point, it does take more time. On Road has a limit. Last year it was 2 sets for single day meeting. The scrutineers marked everyones first set when they came through after rd 1. It was then the responsibility of the driver to get their 2nd set marked when ever they wanted to do.

Scrutineering is done after the round, so that does make a small difference.

This year, it is 2 dat meetings, and 4 sets of tyres - and it is the responsibility of the driver to get all of their sets marked before they widh to use them.

Two sets was done in the past, and I quite enjoyed it, added another skill (when to use the second set - you also had to take account of weather/grip changes).

Let's be fair, if a club wants a National they should have enough people to do these jobs. If they don't let someone else hold it.

G

hi guys

im not a a buggy racer now but used to do rally x 3 years ago and we used to carry i think is was 10 or 12 different types of tyre and a few sets of each, which can get very expensive i did do a few meeting which had control tyres but no limit on how many sets (that doesnt benefit club racers at all)

now i do touring and i raced the ko gp last august 2 full days of racing and we were only aloud 3 sets of tyres very hard to do but you could see on the score sheets that people were trying hard to manage there tyres even the top boys would make mistakes in qualifying and just leave the track to save the tyres.

it does make it cheaper but tyres are the best set up change a driver can make bar none in my opinion, so if you have a control tyre that you cant get to work it can ruin a days racing having a choice is far better for that reason.

but all in all i would rather we saved money and had control tyres and limited sets in all classes of rc racing i quite like have to think about tyre wear and should i save them this run for the finals you get my drift

interesting thread be great if a few top driver could give us there points of view

laters Andy Bell :p

just out of intrest, whats the average amount of tyres (sets) that a non-a-finalist gets through at a national?

im thinking dry conditions here, ta

Some experiences made in Germany:
We are currently running control Tires in our official races.
Each Importer nominates one type of Tire per class (compound free).

At the moment tyres run are Losi, Proline, Schumacher (with minipins only on carpet and the rare grass tracks) the panther tires aren`t really used.

This has very much cut down the amount of tires used.

We had a test Year when we run limited number of tires per event but changed very soon to the system used now.

easy to scrutineer and no problems whe heats have to be repated.

Cruise.

I don't race in Britain but we have control tires here in Germany as well. I really like that fact as it makes racing that much easier and you can buy in bulk, which cuts the price down nicely on Proline and Losi tires.

The question is whether a limit is really that sensible because even if I use tires for two runs only before using new ones, the used ones are still plenty good enough for practise or even for different tracks with different grip levels.
In the end I can use 5 sets of tires for a national which will be absolutely great for club racing or practise afterwards.

Control tires :thumbsup: Limited sets :thumbdown:

I know you said dry conditions but....

At the first national at Kiddy I used two sets each day, and that was including practice and the A's.

I expect to use the same at Oswestry, may be a third set at a push.

glad to hear that i used one set all day at kiddy, wasnt too bad in 2wd but really suffered in 4wd.

so i will use 2 sets at oz, ta

Most people overrate the effect of new tyres too. I guess in britain with such a high level, you need to use a lot of new tyres to squeeze out that last extra bit. Many people take a new set each run to have the exact same feel every time, not always because it is faster. So unless you're really on top and have nothing else left to cut down on your laptimes, take it easy and concentrate on making fewer mistakes instead of spending all your money on new tyres.

Limiting the number of tyres is indeed a lot of work, and what when it starts raining, or when you trash your wheel?

Tyres are a big thing in the UK now. There are so many people who can put in a clean 5 minute run, often with 1/2 second at the end of a round covering 20 places or so.

G

IMHO, 3 wet sets,or 3 dry sets all marked up buy scrutinering before you race, and checked along side weighing in, but give three tire manufactures any compound allowed,

I like the idea of limited tyres, but the amount of work for scrutineering has stopped me suggesting it.

But how about making the rule even more strict? May make it easier to police.... but allowing ONE nominated tyre, but before that is done putting that tyre through some sort of quality/price/availability approval.

So, if this was Schumacher, we'd know Yellows if dry, greens if damp or wetter. For example.

I like the idea of this, plus Carl's idea of pre-scrutinised during booking in... so 2 sets of yellows and 2 sets of greens marked. Then the A finalists get 1 more set marked after qual.

So then, if it stays dry and we take 2 sets of greens unused home, then they get a different colour dot on the tyre - if we have a dry year, we may each have some greens with 6 dots on, or 12! if they transfer between 2wd & 4wd.

Chris

Thats too much choice & too many tyres. With limited sets we need less choice really. What do you guys think?

I think we should all run on Schuey blues, they'd be a bit gash on some wet astro tracks but they work ok in pretty much all other conditions. We might not have the grip levels we do now in ideal circumstances but it would be the same for everyone, they'd last a lot longer too :)

Also as they are so rock hard compound variations would be less of a problem :drool:

Hey Rich,
Ya know what, id be up for this! It will bring the need to be more sensible with power especially when wet, it will lower costs (just what we need when everything else in life is becoming more expensive), and introduce a completely level playing field.

There'd be no need for limited numbers used, as by their nature we wouldn;t need to change often.

i think i would like the blues idea, it would suit me too, with my girlie left thumb:lol:

Do we propose and vote on tyre rulings or is this done by the brca and the national clubs.

We ought to chat with Charlie and Paul. Be worth a chat with them this weekend.

But that's back to a monopoly.
What's the point in other companys developing new tyres then? *cough* GRP *cough*

G

Unless each of the 3 companies had to nominate 1 compound which can be used for a whole meeting, and each national venue nominates the best tyre:confused:

I like this idea too :thumbsup:

TR-32's:drool::drool:

make it simple 3 nominated tyres compound open

Which means we would have
shuey: blue, green, yellow
BB, blue, green, (Bleen), pink
GRP, A, B, C

I dont think its that simple

Have mercy on the astroturf tracks!

We do need 2 options really as we have now, but then we will be back to the situation we have now as the compounds will probably get softer over time to get people to run X manufacturers tire as they have more grip.

How about two tires, made by different manufacturers. One with a smaller spike suitable for dry/damp and one with a longer spike for wetter weather, and a universal compound used by both manufacturers?

We need to be sure that if anything new is suggested, then it is policeable. You say blues, ok, yeah i'll go with this. Can you be 100% sure that someone has a blue in front of you and not a yellow??

I'm thinking aloud to a certain extent, not saying that it isn't possible, just wondering i guess.

It has been mentioned about having something different in the sidewall - like the comppound. Has anyone asked the manufacture if any of them would be prepared to do this?? As it will certainly add a cost. Would the racers be prepared to stand any added extra cost??

The touring car section mentioned having something new moulded into the wall. I seem to remember all the main manufactures saying that they might be prepared to do it, with enough notice, and a guarentee of a certain number of tyre sales. In the end Take Off were chosen, and because they had the monopoly of all 3 national series, they did mould BRCA into the wall. However, when they came, they were different to the ones we had the previous year (this was allways denied, but essentially no-one believed the denial!!), but they had 100% monopoly, so we were stuck with it.

You could do it so that, BB blues, schuey blues and grp 'c' compound all had to be moulded with the brca logo on the sidewall.
This way you would only need the 3 types of tyres and they would be easy to identify because of the brca marking.

This way, it would keep most happy.

IF companies then want to make the compound softer before the season starts to gain an advantage then that is up to them. But if there was a limit of one set of each 'brand' per meeting, then making them softer would be to no advantage to the company because we could only use one set of that particular tyre per meeting. So if it was softer then most would leave it for the final or final quali due to the extra wear rate.

Good point. Id like to be running GRP's next year rather than the others if im honest.

If the rule remains the same, id be pleased to see the same 2 nominations throughout the year. if those 2 nominations are Brands X & Y, then it shuts out Z.

If we have 3 nominations, there becomes too many options in my opinion.

What if the nomination was for 3 brands, but includes compound: i.e.

Schu Yellow Minispike
GRP Conespike C
BB Green Spike (new?)

But then is that impossible to police?

Im starting to come to the conclusion the current rule is most suitable (with the racer in mind), its just having 3 credible brands now causes reason to consider other rules - you guys may have some other ideas, lets see them!

Chris

you wouldn't need to carry all 3 if you had to buy your tires from race control, at a set price, same for all then glue up and use them and thats set 1
then if it rains you buy set 2 from a choice of three wets,
and have one choice left for finals or faster type compound.job done