Megane 225/Golf mk5 GTI/Leon 225 Cupra R/Focus ST ?
 

Anybody own either of these ?

Looking as to what would be a replacement for my ph1 Clio 172.

Read the Evo mag reviews, the Focus ST & the Golf seem to be £2k ish more han the other two for the equivalent mileage etc. my heart says the Megane but reviews say it's a bit un-involving though refined. The Leon Cupra R is said to be more 'raw' & a little more involving.

Tbh, i'd want something just a bit bigger than the Clio, slightly more grown up (lol) & more refined though not at the expense of everything else.

Just wondered if anybody here can offer any opinions :thumbsup:

I would say the Gti is more of a mature car, in terms of it don't have as much power, just better built soo you enjoy the car more. Take it you looking at seat Leon mk1 1m chassis? What about a s3

I've had three out of the list, not the focus, and i would say the Golf is the best bet personally. Leon is based on the older mk4 golf/s3 chassis and the megane is alittle more raw than the others. I had loads of problems with my 225 F1 and it didn't last long until i ditched it.

Yes, the mk1 shape Leon (eg, '53 plate)

Well i am nearly 40 so maybe i should only be looking at the Golf :lol:

I considered the Audi S3 but for the same money as the others they're that bit older & generally higher mileage.

I've got a Focus ST. had it for 6 years now, very nearly the perfect car, fast, handles well, comfortable, decent space inside, boot fits my racing gear in fine, and it'll do 30+mpg if you want it to, or low 20s if that's what you want;)

Did try a mk5 Golf GTi while I was waiting for the ST to be built, to be honest it bored me to tears, was about as exciting as my 04 plate Mondeo:yawn:

If you want a mature but really fun car i would say the focus st. Drove one and felt fantastic , not as raw as the type r. Which i love.

My last car was a Clio 172 ph1 which was the best and fastest 172 they made J
My current car the Golf GTi Mk5 but it’s the Edition 30 so its 230 bhp rather than the standard 200. Its got bags of power when you need it but you can also drive it slowly when required. Ive had the CIVIC Type R (EP3) and the Integra (DC5) , Leon Cupra R 225bhp and are all great cars. Fastest was the Leon as I chipped it to 265bhp, best handling was the Integra but best all-rounder was the Civic. In comparison to the golf……. there would be no way I’d change it, the golf is just too good IMO anyway J

Leon Cupra R is your best bet (IMO) - Cheap as chips, loads of grunt with 225bhp (mappable to 260bhp) will do 30+ mpg all day long, 4-doors as standard, nice interior and I think they still look good.

ST is juicky with it's 2.5L 5cyl lump although sounds lovely, plus the car will be more money.

Megane 225 is going to go wrong, or at least have lots of annoying little niggles - It's just standard with French cars, even if it's just an Airbag light coming on and off, or the doors not unlocking etc.

Golf Mk5 is lovely, very nice but expensive - You're still looking at £7k for a good low mileage one compared to a Leon Cupra R at £4k

What about the Mk2 Leon? I've got the FR TDi but you can get the FR Petrol (2.0T FSI - same as the Golf GTI) and that's a great car.

Other thing to think about is the Skoda Octavia VRS if you fancy something more grown up (I've got one at 30 haha) but it's a great car for the money, all the suspension, brakes and engine from the Golf GTi but you'll get one with half the mileage for the same money and they have an absoultely HUGE boot so great for racing or if you have a family etc.

I'm familiar with the Octavia VRS (tdi 170bhp) as my sister/husband have one which i've driven. I don't really need, or want something that bit bigger though it is quick & a pleasure to drive.

My Clio RS has been faultless, i may be lucky as i do read (on ClioSport) about what can & does go wrong, i'm thinking i could also get lucky with a Megane 225 too, lol. I'm partial to Renaults having had a number of GT Turbos in a previous life :woot:

Tbh, the Focus & Golf are looking just a bit too expensive, the Leon 225 R (mk1) certainly looks a good bet, 5 doors always handy, good size boot, descent build quality (keep reading about door seals going though...), 32+mpg & an easy 260ish bhp upgrade. Only thing which niggles me are the looks, just a bit dated & not sure about it's ar5e end, lol. Also, i hope the driving position isn't the same as an Ibiza as it'll be out of the question !

I need to get out & arrange to drive some of these cars when i have time.

The 170tdi Lumps are ok, not great as they all have DPF's which cause no end of troubles, plus they've all had an injector recall due to them failing - Not a case of if but when.....

I'd probably prefer the 140bhp TDi and just get it mapped, they go just as well but don't have dodgy injectors or the DPF to go wrong. My Leon (Mk2 FR Tdi) is the 170bhp and so far so good but I know it could still cause me problems another day.

At the end of the day your budget is all that dictates it, if you can afford it get the Golf GTi, if not I'd seriously look at either a higher mileage Leon FR (2.0 T FSI) or go for a really nice good condition 05 plate Cupra R (225) - It may look a bit dated but they're still great cars, if it's too old looking for you I guess you'll have to either up your budget or just get a high miler - Some of which aren't an issue if they've been serviced regularly, it's just the resell value that can put you off if you decide to sell it in 12 months...

The whole VAG range of cars are good, in my opinion it's just if you want to over-pay for the Audi or VW or get something that's at least mechanically as good in the Seat or Skoda - Just not as refined or nice inside in most cases :D

What about a Civic Type-R? They're good fun, quite poor on fuel but pretty reliable and the EP3 is still better then the newer model.

I know what you mean about Renaults, I've had loads in my time too (2 x Clio 16v's, 1 x 5 Turbo and a Megane 225) - all were good but equally all had niggles / faults.... The problem is the Megane 225 is quite a modern car so has a lot more to go wrong then your Clio, so many things are electronic (keyless entry and start for one). The cambelt change is around £1200 from a dealership due to having to take the Engine out - I got mine done by a specialist for £500 which helped but it's still a big job.

Window regulators are the other things that constantly go on the Meganes, I had 2 replaced in 3 months but if you look on the megane forum you'll see hundreds of complaints and posts about it.

Sometimes you will just get lucky, but it's probably safer to play it sensible and go with something that "most" people find to be reliable, rather then play the numbers game and hope you get a good one.

I thought most modern diesels had DPF's tbh, they're certainly starting to cause expensive problems for people, many owners don't even know they have one (or told about them upon purchasing from new) until if goes wrong/needs cleaning/replacing. We've just bought an '06 Focus 1.6 petrol Ghia for my wife, we were going to get a TDCI but the 1.6 & 2.0 diesels have PDF's, only the 1.8 doesn't, we gave up looking for a descent one so settled for the petrol. Seems very difficult to find out which cars/models have them fitted & which don't !

I'm not keen on Type R's, they have the same problem as my Clio, not enough torque to pull the skin off a rice pudding, & all the power somewhere over 5k, i'm always underwhelmed by my Clio's low end grunt & i can never be bothered to rev the knackers off it, lol.
I chose to initially consider the Golf mk5 GTI & the Focus ST as they're meant to have a very linear power delivery & lots of low end grunt, which i like, i get the impression the leon's power delivery isn't quite as linear with the older 1.8 20v lump.

having said that i may well take a closer look at the leon Cupra R 225 :thumbsup:

Mazda 3 MPS?

For the shape and age you would be looking at it would be the less imposing version - a bit of a wolf in sheeps clothing :p

Focus st all the way. Engine might not be the most fuel efficient, but it's massively characterful and makes the car. Power is not very linear as someone else described, it comes in big surges, which is very entertaining. I have mapped mine through dreamscience, cheap to do using a second hand dreamscience box.

Great chassis, good build quality, cracking seatd and plenty of space for the family. Look best in blue or red for me, if you want to e more subtle silver or black and there's always orange for the full asbo effect!

Looked at these but they're £405 a year to tax unlike my other choices (all £215 p/a) & they're meant to relatively un-involving to drive, also prices compare to the Golf/Focus.

Good call though.

Arghh all i hear is torque or lack of it compared with other cars.
we have owned ours for 6 years and ive never worried about lack of torque , you just need to drive it in the correct gear.

On a track maybe but in the real world having good usable power throughout the rev range can make for quicker car than one which only has power from 6k !

If you're happy to be constantly changing up & down, & drawing attention by your max revs & generally sounding like a loon :D then thats good for you, but not for everyone.

I've personally never really got on with 'all or nothing' engines, i only have my 172 as i bought it for a good price from a mate &, as an everyday hatch it does everything ok (especially corners) but it's all too much hard work trying to go quick :p

Must say I agree, i don't want to have to rev the nuts off it to get it to do anything.

Each to there own.

yep keep away from dpf`s nothing but trouble on everything , see more trouble with these on most makes

Not sure how you can say it's not very linear, peak torque comes in at 1600rpm and stays till around 5k, so a nice fat and flat torque curve, car pulls from 10mph in 4th:)

Unless your Dreamsience has made it more peaky;)

Hi mate, only going off howitzer drives
Rather than the power/torque curves. Boost comes in quite low but is limited until 4k rpm when its let off its leash. That's with stock ecu. Dreamscience gives you much more boost from low down.

Just my subjective opinion.

Interesting opinions :)

I'd say drive the Leon Cupra 225 and see what you think first. When I had my Civic Type R (EP3) we went and test drove a Cupra 225 for the missus (this was back when the EP3 was new and the Cupra 225 was just released).

We drove the Cupra 225 as we had tried a standard Cupra and it was pants.
The 225 felt boring too - big, heavy and like a boat. Power was not impressive either. Neither I or the missus liked it at all and it felt rubbish coming from the Civic.

We tired all the ususal hot hatches and in my opinion, at that time, nothing could touch the EP3 and we were at pains to part with cash for a 2nd car that wasn't going to meet our expectations. We ended up test driving a brand new Scooby - Pro Drive monster - which was good and we would have bought that if insurance hadn't being madness for it.

As things turned out - we had more kids and bought a people carrier instead in the end !!

I recently bought an old EP3 type R again and am 'doing it up' still puts a smile on my face and all this talk or no torque is nonsense in the real world when driving the car. The engine is an absolute joy.

Nah, not just opinion, the torque is limited up to a certain RPM in the I5T engine to protect the gearbox/driveline. What gears the torque limit is active in and what RPM it stops at is dependent on the car. ST, RS, V70 and so on. I can pretty much guarantee its limited in all the other cars mentioned too. Even some quite dull econo-boxes have torque limits in lower gears.

The I5T engine in the ST has actually got a shed load of torque all the way thro the rev range, but it *feels* like it hasn't as its quite smooth, until the limitation ends!Lots of work done on this over the years, a peaky tune with a rapid ramp up on torque feels a lot faster than a nice smooth torque curve. Even if its not. Some manufacturers play up to this, some don't.

We've even experimented (on autos) using a very snappy abrupt gearshift to make the car feel faster, even tho the abrupt shifts tend to slow the car down (engine gets off boost, wheels spin, suspension bounces around and so on.) 95%+ customers think its faster.

All the talk of torque isn't nonsense, just your own preference. My preference is lots of low end grunt :p

I guess i'm looking for something which does everything quite well so, quite fast, quite refined, relatively economical, practical, reliable & nice to drive on all roads regardless of my mood. The Type R just isn't my thing, it drives too similar to my Clio.

Surprised that the Leon is even heavier than the 5dr Golf GTI tbh.
You're right, i need to try the Leon as sometimes on paper a car would appear the perfect choice, i may just hate it, lol.

I drive a Golf GTI VI since 2009
Love the car!!! :)

I have a 182 and can't say I've ever found this on day-to-day basis or on track. I've driven the Leon Cupra and the Megane R26 (F1 Team 230bhp) and I'd say to go for the Megane, that's what I'm looking at next.

I would have a remapped cr170 leon fr tdi ( not the pd version).
Yes a bit more money but a torque monster and v cheap tax.
Have you thought about an ibiza cupra tdi? wicked car just chuck away the standard suspension as its far too hard