Noel, with respect, yes it is needed in my opinion, since every time a product comes out, that is anything like yours everyone else gets accused of copying (even in some cases if they showed off their ideas first!), despite as I have already written elsewhere, the original idea on towers with seperate alloy camber bases came from K-Factory as I pointed out a few weeks back.

Companies do copy each other yes, especially if an idea is good (all cars have four wheels at the end of the day, we will say that is copying next ;)) but when other brands add more in terms of anodising or etching or both it is unfair to constantly jump on a thread and insist yours are cheaper, better value and higher quality (without even knowing what grade material is used by others in some cases), I cannot speak about the Tresray "copies" of yours, but I know for a fact you have not seen the Exotek ones yet in the flesh, so how can comments be made about inferior quality materials?

Your products are superb, I am not knocking them at all, but so are many others though and competition in the market is great, you will never have the only product of a type in the market place if it is a good one, others will always attempt to make the same or similar.

If your mounts were anodised, then laser etched, then distributed through model shops and dealers all over the country (not just sold direct), I am sure they would be not too far off the price of the others too...

Not looking to argue with you, far from it, but the constant shouts of copying and comparing is really not needed.....

hiya, thanks for your reply. I am aware anodising costs extra, wasn't a dig at the product (as you probably saw I asked 'ARE' you able to which i note you saw). Yep I agree, scratcing does mar a product.

OK, another 'stupid' question then. The ali you use, if you 'colour' it with a black marker, does the ink seem to hold on the metal ? (some markers don't and almost streak on them).

Point is I am in the market for this kind of front setup (and rear tower) and yes im a bit fickle, i like my bits colour coded :drool:

If they hold marker pen, i will 100% be purchasing (well..the GF will be for my xmas gift)

PS for Darren, i am currently using Exotek items also (rear hub carriers, steering link, spring collars and shock bottoms) and all are excellent products as well.

Yes there is a tendancy of copying. In some respects it isn't even copying but actually that a main line manufacturer has parts tooled by another company who also sell under their own brand as well.

I guess its the finer changes, refinements etc that make them a companies product.

Will be in the market for spring cup's and servo posts this Xmas from Exotek also :woot:

I guess Noel will answer if his alloy will take the black ink (you may be able to get the mounts anodised locally) The Cream mounts are very high quality (:D) and in my opinion would look gtreat anodised as pherhaps a "PRO" version to satisfy theose who want colour

Another take on the DEX210 front tower is the one from Team SR (and these come with black alloy mounts too as standard -a nd pre-glued edges to the carbon tower which looks very trick) may be worth checking out also, they can be found on our website - www.xfactoryrc.co.uk

I agree with those comments fully.....

I didn't jump on a thread, This is a thread about my product. Also didn't say they where inferior material, I said I know mine is high grade material and lower grades may need anodising to stop corrosion.

As for the black marker, If you get a marker pen that does not rub off on other alloys them it should be fine on mine, and you can always touch it up if needed.



Anyway, if you would like to purchase the original product, Please feel free to PM me, as stated they are £28.00, I also do rear towers for £15.00.


Cheers
Noel

To be fair, this is not the only thread this topic has come up on now is it and it is in the open Durango forum and not an advertisers own forum...

"if you use a grade that corrodes easily" and "I choose to use better material" is implying in my eyes that materials used by others are inferior to that of yours.

I wrote that I used a grade that doesn't need anodizing. I was very picky about what grade I used, which is why I didn't make the B4 mounts out of aluminium at first, Untill I was happy with the grade I found.

and your right it's not the first time it's come up. It's the third, as this is the third time I've seen a product that has reproduced what I developed. Such is life.

I recall, since when the first mounts for the B4 came out they were steel and there was a heated debate about those and the weight being in the "wrong" place (if there is such as thing), hence why i think the alloy ones were introduced by you

There have been several threads with comments like these (not all of them started about your products) - here is just one example - http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111236

I think RDRP felt the same when their brass rear mounts for the DEX210 were copied after they showed them 6 months before anyone else, but as I keep saying that is life, copying will always be there

Some great examples...
MIP CVD's - copied now by almost everyone
Schumacher Mini Spike - copied more than once
Brass front bulkheads by GHEA - now everyone makes them
and with all respect - all recent cars from Ansmann/Team C are a "copy" of somthing before them

Actually There was nothing wrong with the weight, but it's a good example as both you and Tony trashed the mounts even before they where produced. The ali ones where introduced after I found a material I was happy with and also to ease manufacture.
Most other products I produce are heavier versions of the original part. Other than the rear weight where I removed threads for ease of build and removed angles to add a little extra weight. Still don't think anyone else does that?

Never said there was and as for trashing them, I said they would be better in alloy, you obviuosly agreed since you then made them (and now all others since) in alloy and hence thats why we buy that great product from you and sell it with our own carbon tower, it is superb! (especially now it is in the right material for the job ;)) If steel was right, why no steel ones for the DEX? ;)

And as Jo90 rightly said its those fine touches that make the product your own from one company to another.

Not bashing you here Noel, I think your stuff is very good, just pointing out the facts......

I think I'e explained the material, I've found a grade I'm happy with.


Also the DEX210 ones would be much heavier, Much like the brass ones from 8-racing.

Anyway. Think I've said what I want to say on the subject.

Glad we agree then, alloy is the better material (in this case), everyone copies everyone else's ideas and all companies make a great range of products all individual in their own little way.

Extended lunch now over, back to work...

After reading Darrens posts that has made my mind up, best quality product it is so Cream will be getting my business later this month. Cheers for that :thumbsup:

:wub

Like that makes any sense??? :confused:

It does as you kept going so means it must be better.

And that makes even less sense?? :confused::confused::confused:

One thing you may not know about me, I dont hint at things, if somthing IS better than somthing else I will say, if somthing is AS GOOD AS something esle I will say that too, dont recall saying any of that above and I dont give cryptic clues.....

To clarify, all of Noels Cream stuff is very good quality, never have said it is not, but so are all RDRP, Exotek, 8Racing, K-Factory, TeamSR and others products too, all very good in their own way..

Darren to be fair welshy is doing that to annoy you and i dont blame him as that is not a very good way to go about anything! arguing with someone about their product on their own thread! i hav seen u say stuff about exotek and so on so i take it u sell it, their is no need to say stuff about other brands on this thread as this is about cream, its a bit like a companys website you dont want people talking about other brands on it as you want people to buy urs! ur trying to get people to buy the other brands and not cream and to be fair they pretty much did copy to bad he didnt hav copyright, and u said all companys copy thats y ther is copyright!

Well then more fool Jamesm (welshy) since nothing has "annoyed" me.

You say it is their own thread, just wait a minute here, I access all threads via the "new posts" button on the top of the forum as I do many times daily and I am sure others do as well, this thread is in the open "Durango" forum (not a "Cream" fourm or specialist advertisers forum section, the title of the thread is simply "DEX210 carbon front tower/aluminium mounts" the thread title is NOT "CREAM DEX210 carbon front tower/aluminium mounts".

I was attracted to thread earlier last week when Noel posted that his product had been copied once more and the copy he referred to was in fact the Exotek version, you will see I had not posted anything in this thread before that accusation.

Yes indeed I do sell Exotek, in fact I do more than that, I distribute it in the UK and as such I am expecetd to back up and support the brand as with all our others if the need arises. Thier tower is not a copy of Cream, nor anyone elses, it is their own variant on a popular theme used now by many and as I have stated now many times if anyone is being copied it is in fact K-Factory who were first to do the alloy block/carbon tower design now many years ago for the B4, Noel only copied them.

I have never said that Exotek is better then Cream, nor that Cream is better than Exotek, or any of the other brands mentioned for that matter like RDRP, Team SR, 8 Racing etc etc, in fact if you read my commnets you will see that I have praised the quality of the Cream products at every oppurtunity.

Also, in my opinion it is unfair of Noel, to state on a public forum that his product is better quality (or in his words "I choose to use a better material") when he has not seen the quality of the others first hand, he has "assumed".

Yes Noels stuff is very good quality and in many cases it has been cheaper too (somtimes dearer), but to be fair I have pointed out, many of the others are laser etched and/or anodised too (which suits some and not all) and almost all of the other brnads are sold through distributors and then model shops across the country and not just direct from the supplier, which will always make them more expensive to buy. If Noel sold his to ditributors and then on to shops, his would not be as cheap as they are either....

Now I did not even realise that this thread was "Noels" at the time I first posted in it, hence if you read I put that he had "jumped on another thread", it was only when he said it was "his" thread that I realised and without it being in the title and the thread already being 7 pages long (I went straight to the last page) that was not obvious, and for that I apologise. On the other hand, many of us pay a great deal of money to Jimmy/Vicky each year for the priviledge of advertising on this forum and we have our own threads and sections to do so in, so "maybe" that is what Noel requires if he wants threads purely for promotion of his items only.

So all the talk of copying, if anyone else wishes to bring it up, please at least get your facts straight first on who is actually copying who (and yes RDRP did release the brass parts for the DEX210 first - Nov 11), the topic of quality, let customers who have the parts be the judge of that and if they feel that extra anodising or engraving etc is or is not what they want to pay extra for or not as they choose........

Goodness me isn't this getting out of hand?

I stand by my original comments. In that they are a copy of what I produced. EVERY front tower that was made for the DEX210 prior to mine was a flat carbon sheet.

My comment about chosing to make it from "better material" was to do with anodizing not anyone elses product. I chose to make the mounts out of a high grade aluminium that resists corrosion better and is also very high tensile, meaning it is less likely to strip threads.

As for advertizing, I PM'ed Jimmy on a number of occasions, without reply, if it's any buisness of yours?

Brass part.. RDRP showed a rendered images of a direct copy of the original part with a brass render. Don't think that gives them the right to be the only ones producing the part.

Just so there is no confusion I'll up date the title to read 'Cream DEX210 carbon front tower/aluminium mounts'

Noel, before getting too smug, go back and read post 117 of this thread, it is all yours and you have accused people of copying you, I would happily have kept this sort of thing private or by PM, but you started the accusations so let it not be me to be the one that is accused of starting this "he copied him" situation since it was you with your post, you brought Exotek into the thread forthe first time, not me advertising their brand, since you tried to make them look bad for being more expensive than you did you not..... I dont agree with what Tresray have done to you, (Blatantly ripping you off with an exact and direct copy after agreeing to distribute yours) I think it stinks, but please dont take it out on every other brand out there who makes a part like yours (wether it be before or after you).....

Getting out of hand?? not really imho, just sticking up for the facts and what is right and correcting the wrong assumptions some of you are making or being told...

To stand there and have the front "still" to call these a copy when the idea is "proven" not to be yours amazes me, just to admit the idea was in fact not yours several posts ago would have stopped it "getting out of hand" as you say. I dont think anyone will see you as a criminal or anything for admitting you got the idea from K-Factory, since you have as you rightly say improved on it (with your wrap around style) and made it avialable for other cars now, but stop trying to insist the idea is all yours and everyone else is copying it.........

Better material - so are you still saying that you "know" that "any" of the other manufacturers you refer to do not use the same high quality materials that also resist corrosion better etc for a fact then, simple answer is you dont know this fors sure, you do know your material is very good, but cannot be sure what others are using and assume it may be inferior, so how can you claim it?

Advertising, as an advertiser on oOple, paying to sell and advertise products on the forum I guess then yes it does affect me. My point though was that your thread had been started in an open area of the forum, which is free to dicuss by all rather than in an exclusive area which it is not.

RDRP Brass, again please, please check your facts to save yourself looking silly on this, I have already said, in the other thread, that "production samples" from RDRP were in circulation (actual parts not rendered images - I have pictures here on my PC fitted to a DEX210) from late last year (yes before anyone else) and not sure if you know or not, but the owner of RDRP (Michael Vollmer) was actually the designer of the DEX210, he created the parts for the car, all of them, so when it comes to making alternatives from other materials etc why oh why would he change the design, it would be saying he got the shape or dimensions wrong in the first place if he did, and not sure then how he can be accused of copying himself in the design of them, he created the original's?? No-one is saying no-one can make alternatives, but then does the same not apply to the front towers too..... You cant have the cake and eat it..

Not quite sure where I'm getting smug?

Are they more expencive? Yes, that is what I pointed out on a thread that I started about my product. Yes I'm upset they have been copied. Would you not be?

Having said that people will make there own mind up if the others have copied what I have done.

I haven't made any claims about what others have made their products out of. I said and will do for another time that the material I chose has good corrosion resistance so doesn't need anodizing. Your the one that implied that I was saying their product was not.

RDRP, I stand corrected, so many companies names being mentioned I'm loosing track. They make the all ali front tower, Which if I wanted I could copy. Have I? No.


If you want to have a blobby fit about me not having an Advertising section that's up to you. I'll not worry about it untill Jimmy contacts me about it. After all it's his website.
As for your comments about me not having distributors etc. Again is that any of your concern? I do everything from developing to making to selling the products. Usually getting orders out the following day right up to midnight. I also have given disscount to distributors, Tresrey-usa being one of them. Look where that got me, and yourself for that matter.


Think I've covered evreything there. If not I'm sure you'll point it out.

You acccuse the thread of dragging on, then keep coming back and adding another dig..... :mad:

In your last three posts my friend....

More expensive, but anodised and etched (round we go again) you admitted that costs more to do already....

Indeed so just leave it rather than you did on post 117

Changed your mind now then, please read what you wrote previous (before you edit any more of it)

A little pointless to mention, but again RDRP were accused (not by you I will add but one of your customers) of copying you on the brass hinge pin mounts, although they were first, as I have shown, more than once. I think an all alloy fornt tower is cool, why dont you do one too if you can?

No "blobby" fit here, but dont expect threads to be all yours with no other opinions allowed unless you pay for them.... ;)

Yes we all do that here too (and more), hence why I am still on oOple defending my brands at 11pm. You insist to mention you are cheaper, (you did it again in this last reply) compare apples with apples, you have one man/one company only profiting from your items, they "should" be the cheapest (by miles)

Not sure what you mean there I already said what I thought of Treray in respect of you (stuck up for you again), however regrads us we only ever stocked your items, promoted them and helped sell more then you possibly would have juts on your own, we also supplied you our towers at trade price so you could sell them too, not sure how that did not help in any way??

Goodness me, I have stuck up for your products ALL the way through this, I have not knocked them once, I have been nothing but fair in the points I have made throughout and you say I am the one having the blobby fit........ pot kettle springs to mind mate.

If you are happy, leave it there, let the public decide by what they choose to buy......

Darren you know what, What ever. :yawn: Your the one that keeps replying.

I'll let the readers make their own mind up.

LOL, one more reply just for you then to add to yours ;) LOL

Woohoo we agree, I just said that above.......

good luck dude :/ hes doing himself no favours

and to just clarify i said it was his thread well he started it was what i meant if you want to say something good about anouther brand start a thread dont bash some1 else in doing so in a thread they started or make a comparison thread for example "which DEX210 shocktower do u prefer" even make a poll or somefin!

Thankyou,

I was going to post something else but just can't be arsed.

he says ur replying and then he does??????? wat lol

I think you miss the point completely with that comment. I have not said anywhere any one is better than any other (you are accusing me of that) I have said they are ALL very good, the accusations "came" (past tense now) from Noel at the time, I have not "bashed" Noels products anywhere (please show me if I have), it is not me who wants a "comparison poll", since it is not me who drew the comparisons in price and quality in the first place, read all the above and the previuos page if you dont believe me.......

Remember that this thread was dead until last week and had not been posted in for 5 months until Noels post (117) were the accusations started against a brand that we distribute, now put yourself in my shoes as a distributor and see if you would not do the same

Here is the post that started it all by Cream 1 week ago (over 5 months after the last reply) the same week the Exotek one was announced.....

"Well after release of yet another copy of this tower, I'm still very happy to say mine is still looking great value at £28.00

With Treserys retailing at £33.99
and Exotek having a RRP £37.99


Cream replacment towers being £13.00

Treserys retailing at £18.49"

It was a light hearted joke, hence why I put the ;) after it.

Again, just read if from the beginning, then see who accused who of what :yawn:

LOL, I guess by that you think that means I've not been selling any :) Quite an assumption that for a thread that has 11,653 hits.

Maybe it's also partly down to this thread
http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104735
Which has another 2,287 hits.

Think we are done here.


Oh while I'm at it, What makes you think the few mounts I've sold to you have made the slightest difference to the amount I've sold. You really think my sales are that low.

I have not assumed anything, I would guess and hope you have sold bucket loads, just to reassure you, I have not knocked them anyhwere

But I did not know it was a "greatest hits" competition LOL (maybe our banter has helped that to rise this last week, they do say any advertising is good advertising and your thread has been top of oOple most of the week and all of tonight)

But you did "resurrect" a dead thread with your comments :wub

Sorry missed the little edit you did there...

I think we sold far more of your mounts than you sold of our towers, so best you leave that one there unless your wish is to get personal....

Think it kind of already did get personal.

As you said I'm not a shop, don't want to be, I'm an engineer, I've not tried to sell your towers to any great extent.

Not from me it has not, I have defended your product throughout all my posts just dont agree with some of your comments and how they were portrayed, but it is far from personal from me...

well if thats wat he said u dont no its about exotek lol u hav no proof if ur quote is correct!

i think it should just be dropped now :) some people like his and some people like others like u said awesome!

No, how you portrayed them.

Lots of little digs in the last few posts. I'm sure others have noted them too. Feels like the B4 mount thread all over again. Very childish IMHO.


Any enough for tonight, I'm off to bed, busy day tomorrow. Sweet dreams.

I do agree with you 100%. I will just add that with regards to what I have highlighted in bold, Noel did only refer to two towers, the Tresray and Exotek and the Tresay one had been out for a while and the Exotek one was only released last week (when the post was made) and as I did point out at the time (many posts ago now thanks to how this thread has exploded :cry:) the comments regards materials and quality etc were before an Exotek one had even been seen in the country, which was what annoyed me the most....

6 post ago you accuse me of dragging it on, but as bad as I have been at keep repyling you are doing just the same.

B4 thread - I told you (as did Tony E) steel would be too heavy, and alloy would be better, that was the only thing I ever said back then and as already discussed (zillions of posts back now) you do make them in alloy now and no longer in steel, so I was not wrong....

Keep making the good stuff, its popularity is clear to see, but keep the accusations down a bit ref the copies etc.

Good luck and have a busy day tommorow ;)